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Is anyone here NOT in love with the 5.56 x 45 or the AR-15?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Captain O, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. Captain O

    Captain O St. Helens, OR Well-Known Member

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    I understand that the 5.56 x 45 is the current "sweetheart" of the self-loading rifle crowd I also understand how well it shoots accurately at 250 yards and all. As a party of one, I don't like the "plastic" aspect of the AR15/M4 or whatever you want to call it. IMHO, it has very little in the way of "spirit". It fires a 55 grain pointed FMJ or PHP at extremely high velocities. Big deal. It is fine for varmints. and it works fairly well for deer. It seems that anyone with a CNC machine can crank out an M4/AR-15 in a matter of hours. *yawn*. We have heard it all before.

    I am a Vietnam era Navy veteran, and the son of a BM1 (PNA to Chief 13 times). He was Underwater Demolition Team (pre-SEALS)/Navy Rifle Team. Pearl Harbor Survivor, (7 1/2 ships sank from beneath him during WW2) and was also a veteran of the Korean Conflict. (I learned at my daddy's knee). War stories of the M4 M16 are for another thread. There are enough of them to circumnavigate the globe.

    I prefer a .30 Caliber or larger diameter slug, regardless of platform. At ranges up to 150 yards, the .30 Carbine gives up little to the 5.56, and If I want to shoot any further, I'll use either my .30 Soviet (7.62 x 39). after 200 yards, I will use my bolt-action Spanish Mauser in .308 Winchester.

    This is not the thread to tell me how well you AR-15/M4 kills deer blah, blah, blah. We've heard all about it for 51 years (1965).

    Is anyone else unimpressed/bored stiff with the AR15/M4?
     
  2. Cameron72

    Cameron72 Harrington, WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    How trollish .
     
  3. Captain O

    Captain O St. Helens, OR Well-Known Member

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    I have never been much for kissing rump. You can always start another AR-15 thread *yawn*.

    "Secret Squirrel" on an AR-15 made me laugh. The "Anarchy" symbol along with the Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament or so-called "peace" symbol. (Created during the late 1950's, look it up for yourself) seems as if it is a cultural oxymoron. Why anyone would want such Communist/Socialist symbols on an American fighting rifle, is beyond me. None of us liked fighting, but it was preferable to either the brig or death.

    Give me wood and steel, along with a .30 Caliber cartridge.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
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  4. x2ndxall

    x2ndxall WA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Cool stuff bro.
    Did you start a thread just to tell everyone how neat you are? Or did you actually want some kind of feedback?
     
  5. IheartSig

    IheartSig Beaverton Diamond Supporter Diamond Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    :s0097:
     
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  6. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    Let me play the violin for your sorrows.:s0161:

    I'll stay over here with my .308 AR and AR-15.
     
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  7. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Looks to me that there's a lot of AR-15 fan boys out there who don't like a different opinion.
    Captain O's looking to see if there are any people who share his thoughts and all you other posters can do is trash talk him.

    How nice...

    I, too, prefer a 30 cal, but with a bit more oomph than a 308. I also like wood, but find a good synthetic stock fits my needs better.

    Would have liked to meet the OP's dad.
     
  8. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Not a black rifle fan.
     
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  9. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I don't think it's the difference of the opinion, but the tone in how it was presented. When a new member comes in and in their first post or two start trash-talking a certain group or maybe a brand, etc., how do you think folks are going to react? I can think of some much better ways the OP could have stated it without giving off the vibe that he's talking down to those that like the AR. Considering this site has moved toward the idea of being 'excellent' to each other, coming in as a new member and dissing a whole group maybe isn't the best way to start. Just my 2 cents.

    That said, I do like the AR, in both 5.56 and .308 - I have both. I like the all metal guns, the plastic guns and the wood/metal guns. They all have their place. I like new tech and older stuff - I'd love to own an M1 Garand and an M1 Carbine one of these days. My next acquisition is going to be a lever gun in .357 - brass, steel and nicely finished wood. Personally, I don't really hate any particular gun, style or caliber. In my mind they all have a place in the big world of gun owners.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  10. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @etrain16 , I get your jist, but many people are just kind of harsh with words, especially old time "gun guys". May not be right, but he's not offensive. To call him a troll or comment "How trollish" was uncalled for. Being "excellent to each other" should start with existing members. Nice welcome he got...

    Maybe he didn't use the right words to say, "I like old school rifles, not small caliber "Poodle Poppers"? FYI, a great American and pistol smith coined that term. Jeff Cooper. He had no use for the AR15 or the 223. If he was still alive and on this forum, how would he be treated?

    I also agree with the statement, "I like all guns".
     
  11. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think the past pattern of new members jumping in and starting with a controversial topic or strongly worded opinion has some folks on edge. Just in the last couple of weeks there have been several new members that posted things that you could tell were meant to inflame the members here.

    I agree, some folks are just gruff. Probably best if that's the case, to first make an introduction, get to know the forum for a while, let them get to know you, and see how things go before you jump on something like that. I liken it to visiting someone's home for the first time - you would probably be on your best behavior and maybe even avoid certain topics, until you get to know them better. But that's just my thoughts on the matter. As for jumping on new folks and immediately calling them out as a troll, well, my preference is to get at least a few posts in to see and be a bit more certain before identifying them as such. Not everyone sees it that way though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  12. IheartSig

    IheartSig Beaverton Diamond Supporter Diamond Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    I call BS on all of that. His post, his FIRST post was clearly condescending and divisive in nature, and he hardly wants to engage in conversation. Basically he just made a post to talk about how crappy he thought AR's are and how great his flavor of the decade is and lapse into a short biography about his father. Ill reference this little tidbit immediately following his pointless diatribe;

    "This is not the thread to tell me how well you AR-15/M4 kills deer blah, blah, blah. We've heard all about it for 51 years (1965)."

    Why post if you didn't want to discuss? To just belittle people he doesn't even know? You basically just said "my opinion is this, I don't care to hear what anyone else has to say" Great plan........

    results as expected


    Be excellent to each other goes both ways. You get out what you put in. "Old time gun guys" shouldn't get a pass to act like bubblegums just because they are "old time gun guys".
     
  13. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Everson, Wa. Well-Known Member

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    I carried various versions of the M16 too far and too long while in the Army to want to have one now.
    However , if we were limited to the guns I enjoy , there would be far fewer shooters and firearms out there.
    luckily we are not limited to my likes and dislikes ...
    The AR15 is a fine rifle , just not for me.
    Andy
     
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  14. oremike

    oremike Creswell, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan of the so called "black rifles". I shot an M-14 back in the Navy, and it felt just right. Fast forward a couple years and I'd joined the Guard. First time I shot a M-16 because of my cheek weld what I heard was the recoil spring in the plastic stock go "BOING". I thought it was funny going boing like that. I'm also not a fan of supressive fire power perfering instead a one shot one kill philosophy. I do like the .556/223 in a 14" Contender. If I was to get a semi auto military clone it would be a M-1A or a FN-FAL.
     
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  15. Captain O

    Captain O St. Helens, OR Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't attempting to be divisive. I was simply espousing a different view. It seems that we, as a "shooting society" complain that the "anti-gun" crowd are "mind-numbed robots" that walk about as if they are sheep. If, however, someone bucks the "black rifle" trend, we are suddenly a pariah, unfitting of association.

    I'm far from "anti" anything but there are subjects that have been "done to death". The AR-15/M4 platform is one of these. Just because someone doesn't "join in your choir" doesn't mean that they're a "troll".

    BTW, the "trolls" sleeping under the bridges in Portland have finally begun killing each other. Anyone want to pop corn and watch? :p
     
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  16. thorborg

    thorborg portland oregon Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    You can have my share. I'll take wood and polished blue. .270 fer huntin everything, 45-70, 45 colt fer play, and when I'm feeling dressed up 45acp.
     
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  17. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    .30 cal guy here.

    Like the AR15 for plinking but maybe that would change if I owned a higher end model? I have no idea.

    I do not like springs going everywhere even when I do something as simple as change out the grip so my trust in them as a long term fighting rifle is pretty low unless you have a full kit of parts to fix one.

    Given the choice between an ar15 and a .308 mag fed bolt gun, I'll take the bolt gun.

    If I had unlimited funds, I would go with something in .30 that was simi-auto and not an AK (nothing wrong with them and I like them but those are budget guns and I said unlimited money;)).

    Yea, it could be a troll post but oh well, we needed a decent topic to not agree with each other on and it's been a few months since the last 5.56 vs 7.62 thread:D
     
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  18. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    We've had some definite trolls hit this forum lately, so folks are probably on a close lookout for anti-gun folks, Bloomberg shills, etc. that just come here to pi$$ folks off.

    Back to the topic at hand. I appreciate the AR for what it is - light weight, versatile (multi-caliber options), modular and highly customizable. It's a great gun for plinking, self-defense, hunting or competition. And I do like it in .308.

    But I will always drool over a nice all steel or wood and steel gun over an AR. Give me an old bolt gun or a military semi-auto like the Garand. A nice revolver with wood grips. All good stuff.

    BTW, welcome to the forum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
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  19. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Since you are if VN age, that would put you in your 60s. I'd like to see you hump a full load of .30cal along with your M1A for any period of time, but then again since your dad was an awesome dude, you could probably still do what you did back in the 60-70s which means the AR platform does in fact suck. Got it...thx.
     
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  20. Captain O

    Captain O St. Helens, OR Well-Known Member

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    I was an Aviation Machinist's Mate, (Jet) that worked on the J52-P-408 Pratt and Whitney engines on the EA6B Prowler at USNAS Whidbey Island, WA. Corvallis High School, Class of 1973. Spent my time stateside. Richard Nixon had stopped sending men over to VN on January 28, that year. I missed crawling all over SE Asia and floating off the Vietnam coast on the Enterprise. (But not by much).