Is anyone here NOT in love with the 5.56 x 45 or the AR-15?

[Velzey]

I love the AR-15, its a great varmint rifle....

Now imagine if they made it in 7.62, oh wait, must resist topic drift.....
I love the AR-15 because it has gotten soooooo many more people into shooting than any other firearm ever!
I have several lady friends that would never ever think about owning a rifle. All the media hype about the AR and evil rifle. They call me and ask about entry level AR's and cost. Custom colors, oh boy!

 

[Boboclown]

Now imagine if they made it in 7.62

'Murrican 7.62 like this?

 

[x2ndxall]

c) recovery time between shots (when needed) is longer, and

d) are more abusive to shoot.

I'm not into showing off how much recoil I can tolerate.

Sounds like someone talking about the merits of the AR.

 

[Ura-Ki]

While serving there was only ONE rifle and that was the M-16/M-4! we didn't have much trouble untill the ammo switch. An iffy platform turned into an outright dangerous one. When we first went to the sand box, we faced dudes in man dresses cranked up on all sorts of stuff, combined with a round that "ice picked" and it spelled trouble. We also had a disadvantage when facing these dudes at ranges beyond 400 or so meters, sure we could hit beyond that, but it was not so good. fast forward a few years, and we were allowed to re equip and were issued "old" M-14's for those who wished to make the change. also, while over in Europe many of us adopted the FN/FAL so that we would blend in more. Back to the sand box after a few tours through central Europe to watch a country tear it's self apart, and we finally got back to work in in the middle east only this time we had a good fighting rifle! Things really changed for us that time. Now as a civilian, What made ZERO sence to me as a fighting rifle ( due to my experiences with it) suddenly changed, I realized I would need my old nemesis in this new world I now found my self in. What chanced this attitude for me was the realization that I could choose what platform/configuration I wanted based on my needs ( instead of the Military standard) And that I was not restricted in what I could use for ammo! Now I have a really effective rifle (CAR-!6 Clone) that can do what My issue rifle never could. I will still choose a .30 cal fighting rifle first, but my back up will always be my old and oft hated AR!

 

[Jcreek201]

Cant say I have any problems with the AR platform. Ive never run into any of the common issues many people claim to have with them. Even after 6 years in the Corps. I like the manual of arms with them and they run smooth, fast and accurate for me. With that said, I DO NOT care for the the 5.56 caliber in the slightest. None of the 4 AR pattern rifles I own are chambered in it.

Maybe it's cause I'm part of a younger generation, but I don't share the same nostalgia over wooden guns as some. I find beauty in functionality and ulitity over asthetics. I'd take a beat-to-crap Glock over a pristine Colt SAA or Python, the same as I'd take my custom AR-10 over a Garand. My GAP-10 can hold 1/3MOA out to 1K yds, can fire faster with less recoil and hold twice as many rounds as a Garand. Compare that to a pretty wood stock, and theres not much comparison in my eyes. But that's just my preference.

 

[shibbershabber]

I admit that I have falling into the AR15 hole... up to my neck.

I became gun aware in the days when even a base model AR would set you back $1000 and AKs were $269 and SKSs were $99.

For most of my gun owning life the AR was unattainable. Now everyone and their dog has one. Okay with me. The more "assault rifles" that hit the market the better.

However, I too am bored of the whole tacti-cool trend. Grips and rails coming from every orifice... red dots, holographic sights, magnifiers, etc... one, two, three point slings...

My latest builds have been A2 setups. I even went against all AR sensibilities and built an A2 HBAR with wood stocks and leather sling.


I stuck with the 556/AR setup for a few reasons.

*Availabilty of parts, etc now and into the future, or even in potential shtf situations.
*The round is effective enough for defensive purposes with a manageable recoil so I can arm the wife and kids effectively and comfortably as well
*fun to shoot.
*I like building them. There is a variety of barrels, furniture, magazines, etc that a rifle can be personalized without much added expense or expensive equipment.

*easy 22lr conversions. (last picture, top rifle) Dedicated 22 upper mates with standard AR lower.

I cannot have all of this with any of the common .30cal rifles on the market.

Not to say that I wouldnt love to have an M1A or a nice FAL, etc... I just couldnt hand it off to the wife or my kids to shoot... Customizations are impossible to hundreds of dollars... Ammo is %50 more expensive.

The AR is just practical.
Thats why I stick with it... but like to do it my way

 

[Captain O]

During Vietnam it became the "tacticool" thing. This continued for more than 50 years after that long it has garnered both respect and intense dislike. My opinion of the 5.56 x 45 is the latter.

IMHO, (and humble it is) the .223 Caliber is of limited use. It just isn't my cup of Earl Grey. After 51 years, my opinion has grown rather firm.

 

[KKG]

I went into the Army as a 45B20 in '68 and saw this mistake from the very beginning. I went through Basic with an M-14 for 6 weeks and then an M-16 for the last two. We found that the ONLY way to knock down the Targets beyond 300 meters was to shoot into the gravel in front of them and hope for the best. Yes, this did work and even as an 18 year old kid I knew this didn't impress me in a positive way. The rest of my tour simply proved that first impression to be correct. I blew mines at a 1,000 yards with an M-14 in Panama and saw many failures of the M-16 during my time in the jungles of South East Asia. But, as long as the Military is run by and impacted with Politicians the picture will continue to go down hill for our many "Unarmed" Military. Politics and the many payoffs made are clear with the number of 9mm handguns in So Called "Service". That and the number of .45ACP firearms being ordered out of channels by the folks who are doing the real work of the Military. IMHO

 

[x2ndxall]

As for the validity of the 5.56, I've seen too much, up close and personal, the havoc it reaps to trash talk it. Granted, most has been fired from an M249 LMG/SAW. But, I've also seen enough bad guys put to bed at 400+- meters with an M4. It's a pretty valuable thing to be able to take shot after shot without losing your POA by more than a couple inches.
Is it the best round? Of course not. There is no best round. Has it made a lot of bad guys dead? It has.

It's not my favorite but it has it's place and I like it. The round and the rifle(s).

Edited to say: These aren't the same arms and ammo that were used 50 years ago.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Like many, I do believe the AR type of rifle was a big mistake for the U.S. armed forces. I do how ever like the platform with non standard mil spec ammo. I like to keep my CAR-16 clone loaded with 77 gr. hollow points! It hits very hard, will knock you to your butt wearing body armor, and I can carry a lot of it on me and not look like I have any thing! Combine that with a reasonably small and light platform and I now have a working set up I am comfortable using. Now that I am a civilian and am not limited by the Geneva conventions, I use what works best for KILLING and not what we were taught as threat elimination, to me threat elimination is killing, and killing power should not be a limiting factor. In this I see the AR as quite capable in doing exactly what it should have always been able to do!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I've directed fire for my SAW Gunners , carried and shot the M16A1 , The M16A2 , CAR15 and the M4 Carbine.
I also have seen what it can and cannot do.
The modern .556 works and works well for its intended use.
That said my favorite weapons issued to me were my M21 or the M203.
Given my "history" with the .556 and AR series , while respecting the rifles and round , they hold too many memories to really want to have one around now.
Andy

 

[Jerry]

I am bored to freaking death with AR's!

 

[bbbass]

Cell phones are for telephone calls, and nothing more. Face-to-face communication is a lost art. I have a degree in Speech Communication with a minor in Sociology and two years of Post Baccalaureate Study in History and the Administration Of Justice (I also went to Broadcasting School). In all I have spent 10 years in college/post-secondary education.

It seems to me that someone with a degree in Speech Communication and a Minor in Sociology would have a better understanding of the concept of inflammatory speech patterns. I wish you no ill my friend but you do seem to like to argue!

Ya know, I have whole passel (please do not gripe about my spelling, that would be rude!) of personal gripes and hot buttons. I really hate to read many of the FaceBook comments, comments on news sites, and blogs out there. It's ugly. FYI, it's been trending towards that type of atmosphere here. So much so that many folks have considered quitting this forum. What a shame! But I am soooooo tired of useless argument. Who the F cares about someones opinion if they are going to be unpleasant? Just sayin.

 

[bbbass]

My weapon is apathy. I don't give a damn what anyone thinks or wants.

Not true... you asked about peoples opinions re: hating on ARs.

Just so you know, I understand. Although I love my ARs for what they are, I don't romanticize them or expect them to do things they won't do and were never intended to do. I do sympathize in that I also hate "trends" that I'll define as jumping on the bandwagon because something has become popular and is all the rage. You and I can rant about it, but we're really just howling at the moon.

 

[rwadeg311]

I can go either way on the subject. I find the AR platform fun in more ways than just shooting. If you're interested in building a weapon from the ground up, there's nothing out there that is more customizable or easier for a non-gunsmith type to build.
Once I built my first one I caught the bug. Not to mention the large array of calibers.
I also love the nonconventional black rifles...bullpups etc. as well as wood stocked rifles such as the M1a and variants.
Everyone's intitled to their opinion but why put someone else's choice of weapon down?
Kinda like saying....I'm completely bored with striker fired handguns...

 

[Captain O]

It seems to me that someone with a degree in Speech Communication and a Minor in Sociology would have a better understanding of the concept of inflammatory speech patterns. I wish you no ill my friend but you do seem to like to argue!

Ya know, I have whole passel (please do not gripe about my spelling, that would be rude!) of personal gripes and hot buttons. I really hate to read many of the FaceBook comments, comments on news sites, and blogs out there. It's ugly. FYI, it's been trending towards that type of atmosphere here. So much so that many folks have considered quitting this forum. What a shame! But I am soooooo tired of useless argument. Who the F cares about someones opinion if they are going to be unpleasant? Just sayin.

I have grown tired of being people's doormat from both the Left and the Right. I stopped placating people quite some time ago. Unless this is a "mutual admiration society" disagreement should be expected. We don't live in Andy Griffith's 1960 Mayberry.

While it isn't always sublimely pleasant, the real world is deteriorating all about us. Thanks, primarily to the left, it has become a combative and hostile environment. Most of the news sites are filled with contentious garbage.

I have become rather intransigent as time has gone by. Rolling over and playing dead is no longer a part of my personality. Many times it appears that the only way to get through to people is to take a bitter approach. It is society's trend that has inclined me to take this attitude.

A soft answer may turn away wrath, but at times it takes a acid tongue to get the attention of the thick-headed majority. I'm sorry if I came across as extreme, but the world doesn't revolve around one rifle, pistol, revolver, knife, etc..

Sometimes people need to hear this to awaken them from their "zombiesque" myopia.

 

[Joe13]

loaded with 77 gr. hollow points! It hits very hard, will knock you to your butt wearing body armor

Not trying to pick a fight but your statement is hard to fathom.

Physics require the same force to be applied to you as your target.

So unless the only way to fire your rifle is prone or leaning into it at 45 degrees, I have some doubts about it knocking a 200lb man on his arse in body armor.

No, I'm not volunteering to try it out. You could put 200lbs of sand behind a chest plate and see how far it moves the sandbags if you really care if it will or won't.

Just don't want you to have an expectation of flying bodies if you ever have to bust it out for defense.

 

[shibbershabber]

Forget all yer modern junk...

How about sending 600gr down range at 1000fps?

 

[bbbass]

I have grown tired of being people's doormat from both the Left and the Right. I stopped placating people quite some time ago. Unless this is a "mutual admiration society" disagreement should be expected. We don't live in Andy Griffith's 1960 Mayberry.

While it isn't always sublimely pleasant, the real world is deteriorating all about us. Thanks, primarily to the left, it has become a combative and hostile environment. Most of the news sites are filled with contentious garbage.

I have become rather intransigent as time has gone by. Rolling over and playing dead is no longer a part of my personality. Many times it appears that the only way to get through to people is to take a bitter approach. It is society's trend that has inclined me to take this attitude.

A soft answer may turn away wrath, but at times it takes a acid tongue to get the attention of the thick-headed majority. I'm sorry if I came across as extreme, but the world doesn't revolve around one rifle, pistol, revolver, knife, etc..

Sometimes people need to hear this to awaken them from their "zombiesque" myopia.

It's one thing to disagree, another to throw verbal bombshell to get people going. Yes, that IS called trolling! The purpose is no more than to start arguments and you know it!!

I've been where you seem to be pardner. We all get intransigent as we age. But, IMO you have appointed yourself saviour and want to ride in and kick some butt just like Mohammed did when he rode back into Mecca. Made true believers out of all there. Look how that turned out. So what if you are educated? So what if you have experience? You make all those claims and the result is you appear to be condescending.

You want to fall on your sword? Well, it's really not your job to get people talking, to wake people up, to correct people you think are wrong (spelling included), to FIX anyone whatsoever. IMO the only legitimate role here is to share opinions. You don't want to play Mayberry RFD like, we can fix that right quick.

You don't seem to want to understand what people are complaining about re: your first statement in this thread. But you do know that you could have said you don't like ARs and want to hear from others. Instead you engaged in trash talk. You get annoyed when people call you out on it, so you either say you don't care or you make lofty proclaimations. (SP) Is this really the kind of forum member you want to be?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A whole lotta love for Sam Hawken.
Or at least a excellent modern copy...
.54 round ball 220 grains at 1519 fps with my favorite load of 80 grains of 2F.
Andy