Is anyone here NOT in love with the 5.56 x 45 or the AR-15?

[Joe13]

I'm still waiting for Glock to make an AR-15. Then we'll really have something to trash.

Oh come on... You know there will be hoards of people in line to buy a rifle shaped like a 4x4 with a pistol grip on it

 

[Boboclown]

Oh come on... You know there will be hoards of people in line to buy a rifle shaped like a 4x4 with a pistol grip on it

Oi, I like Glocks. The 4x4 nature reminds me of my favorite job.

 

[jbett98]

Oh come on... You know there will be hoards of people in line to buy a rifle shaped like a 4x4 with a pistol grip on it

Yes they will, but it will undeniably be Glock perfection.

 

[Member 34319]

Kind of reminds me of the gothic kids in high school. Didn't like the modern take on what was running around in terms of what was cool. Decided to try and find their own path. Only to find out that they aren't all that different in the end.

Ar15s are popular for a reason. I get it if you grew up on something bigger, heavier, and more metallic. However the AR15, as old as it truly is, is the modern rifle. Sure there are Scars, and funky futuristic bullpups, but nothing took like the inexpensive, overproduced AR platform. It's success shows that it is a worthy rifle. No matter how you slice it, just like Glocks, they may not be the prettiest, they may not have an once of "classic" to them, they work and that's all that matters.

It may have a cult following. So be it. Don't gripe on it, it isn't worth it. Just go put your black makeup on and your trench coat and go hide in the corner with the rest of you that don't like it.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Didn't care for the derisive presentation. Don't need that krapp. Ignored.

 

[Captain O]

If I wanted excessive plastic, I would exhume Michael Jackson and mold a stock from his face.

 

[Cameron72]

Captain O, I retract my "trolling" remark with an apology. I was too hasty. I understand now what you were trying to convey to us.

I have my own prejudice's against plastic and love metal and wood. I also carried an M16 in my service and didn't want one as a civilian.

My attitude has changed in the last 36 years.

I have never been much for kissing rump. You can always start another AR-15 thread *yawn*.

"Secret Squirrel" on an AR-15 made me laugh. The "Anarchy" symbol along with the Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament or so-called "peace" symbol. (Created during the late 1950's, look it up for yourself) seems as if it is a cultural oxymoron. Why anyone would want such Communist/Socialist symbols on an American fighting rifle, is beyond me. None of us liked fighting, but it was preferable to either the brig or death.

Give me wood and steel, along with a .30 Caliber cartridge.

 

[Captain O]

Kind of reminds me of the gothic kids in high school. Didn't like the modern take on what was running around in terms of what was cool. Decided to try and find their own path. Only to find out that they aren't all that different in the end.

Ar15s are popular for a reason. I get it if you grew up on something bigger, heavier, and more metallic. However the AR15, as old as it truly is, is the modern rifle. Sure there are Scars, and funky futuristic bullpups, but nothing took like the inexpensive, overproduced AR platform. It's success shows that it is a worthy rifle. No matter how you slice it, just like Glocks, they may not be the prettiest, they may not have an once of "classic" to them, they work and that's all that matters.

It may have a cult following. So be it. Don't gripe on it, it isn't worth it. Just go put your black makeup on and your trench coat and go hide in the corner with the rest of you that don't like it.

No, I'm not a "Goth" and never cared for any of the trendy fashions since the 1960's. I haven't been humping an M16 in the rice paddies, and keep my rifles clean in the field. The AR15/M4 is a fine military rifle, but it isn't always the "only answer" in the field.

They all have the same "sterile" features to them. Aesthetically, I find them off-putting. I don't "hate" them, I just don't have any use for them. I find them predictable and boring.

If you like the AR15/M4, there are threads for this purpose. Not everyone swoons over the "black rifle". I couldn't give a darn less for it. Not everyone is going to join your "love fest". (A "cult following" sounds about right). It seems that if anyone doesn't fall all over themselves at the sight of a "black rifle" they are wrong.

The grape Kool-aid is still on the shelf. I never drank it.

 

[Member 34319]

So seeing as your of the Vietnam era. I'm surprised you don't have a better understanding of this rifles success. Seeing as you have seen its foundation, lived through the AWB and now get to witness it influence and give access to new and younger\modern shooters.

Why the bone to pick?

I'm surprised you don't own 8 being that you've seen all there is to know about this rifle, or at least you should.

No heavy steel, reduces cost, not really needed anyways, lighter more modern materials available. Also allows for more potential gun owners to have access due to lower cost.

No wood, again lighter, likely less expensive material that is more durable.

Easy to assemble and disassemble. No gunsmith needed. Opening the doors for folks to put together with little to no skill. Also allowing more owners to cross the threshold.

I can go on and on. The only other rifle I can think of that has the extent of similar success as this one might be the Ruger model 10/22.

So what was the complaint again?

I'm guessing you still rock a rotery phone too, and typed up these comments via Morse code?

Just kidding!

I welcome a little debate though.

 

[jbett98]

Captain O, what's your take on suppressed full auto firearms?

 

[Captain O]

The BATFE is (was) created to employ those government agents left jobless after the end of Prohibition. (The depression was at it's height, and the Federal Government didn't want to march even more people out onto the breadlines).

Fully automatic fire has very limited applications (mostly by the military and police). Suppressors, on the other hand, should never have been a part of the obviously overreaching (and oppressive) National Firearms Act of 1934.

There's something pleasant about shooting rats in the barn without disturbing the chickens. Hunting with a suppressor is a definite plus! (Dispatching large game without frightening away all the other "live food" in the area, is a great concept). A suppressor on a self loading pistol will help keep nerves calmed during a indoor shooting situation. The only advantage of a loud report would be to disorient an attacker, while deafening the shooter.

By the way, the word is spelled rotary and the old telephone technology is still reliable, and works to this day. (Incidentally the last "central" finally left service somewhere in New England in 1982).

I am not against new technology, but even recent musicians have been rediscovered tube amplifiers, due to their warm, acoustic-type sound.

I don't care much for the .223 (5.56 x 45) cartridge, because it tends to destroy flesh (often because of projectile tumbling). During the Vietnam War, a bad lot of WW 760 ball propellant clogged the rifle's gas tube badly causing the M16's in Southeast Asia to jam. This arranged for a large number of Marines, Army and Navy men killed. (That was in 1966-67). The solution of the problem permitted the M16 to return to service, but the round's record had been tarnished. While the cartridge is fine for varminting and Military applications, there are much better cartridges that have been created for the purpose. I am far from being a Luddite, thank you very much.

I don't mind the AR-15/M4 as much as I resent the hunting community relying upon "suppressive" fire (multiple shots) rather than using the rifle as intended. Carefully aimed, well-placed shots are far superior for harvesting animals than hearing multiple rifle reports in the woods. Every time I hear a volley of rounds being fired during hunting season, all my "minds eye" can see is the the desperate measure of an inexperienced, or poorly trained, "hunter". The game animal will either be wounded or badly mauled by poor (or no) marksmanship.

These are the people that can't be denied a hunting license, but really have no business using or owning, a firearm of any kind. They are a bunch of "wannabe" city people that have no experience in the woods.

 

[308]

Every time I hear a volley of rounds being fired during hunting season, all my "minds eye" can see is the the desperate measure of an inexperienced, or poorly trained, "hunter". The game animal will either be wounded or badly mauled by poor (or no) marksmanship.

I guess I should apologize...no doubt you heard my pot smoking brother and his son practicing their "If I see brown, it's down" hunting technique.

Edited to add...neither of those tools owns an AR, but rather rely upon their trusty .270 and 7mm Mag Fud guns to blow the hind quarters, or front legs off their prey.

 

[Boboclown]

I don't mind the AR-15/M4 as much as I resent the hunting community relying upon "suppressive" fire (multiple shots) rather than using the rifle as intended. Carefully aimed, well-placed shots are far superior for harvesting animals than hearing multiple rifle reports in the woods. Every time I hear a volley of rounds being fired during hunting season, all my "minds eye" can see is the the desperate measure of an inexperienced, or poorly trained, "hunter". The game animal will either be wounded or badly mauled by poor (or no) marksmanship.

These are the people that can't be denied a hunting license, but really have no business using or owning, a firearm of any kind. They are a bunch of "wannabe" city people that have no experience in the woods.

Nice overgeneralization. So the people who own ARs are the type who shouldn't own guns? They also just blast their ammo away?

Either trolling or just using a fallacy.
Just in case:

 

[Captain O]

Nice overgeneralization. So the people who own ARs are the type who shouldn't own guns? They also just blast their ammo away?

Either trolling or just using a fallacy.
Just in case:

What I should have said, is that during the 1970's and 1980's there was a large increase in this type of "slob hunting". No matter how I have tried to address the possible fallacy of this concept, I have never been able to get that image out of my mind. Back in the day, it happened all to often.

 

[JRuby]

To me an ar15 is a light weight rifle that outperforms pistol cartridges in a handy 30 round package. Inside of 200 yards has the performance and accuracy for what I need. It is not a 308 and for defense inside of 200 yards due to controllabillity is superior to a semi auto 308. My wife can handle a AR where she has problems with 308 battle rifles. The AR, the 3 08MBR and shotgun all have there place and in some circumstances one is better than the other. I dont love ot hate the AR I simply understand its limitations.

 

[Captain O]

I guess I should apologize...no doubt you heard my pot smoking brother and his son practicing their "If I see brown, it's down" hunting technique.

Edited to add...neither of those tools owns an AR, but rather rely upon their trusty .270 and 7mm Mag Fud guns to blow the hind quarters, or front legs off their prey.

I am sorry. Perhaps we can arrange for him to put down the pot pipe and sell his rifle.

 

[Boboclown]

What I should have said, is that during the 1970's and 1980's there was a large increase in this type of "slob hunting". No matter how I have tried to address the possible fallacy of this concept, I have never been able to get that image out of my mind. Back in the day, it happened all to often.

Probably should have said that instead, though I don't know where you go now that it actually happens. When I hunt with my AR, as well as a few others who I know that use an AR, none of that happens. Only time we're blasting away is if its necessary (IE, getting rid of wild hogs on my buddy's farm).

Neither my AR15 or .308 AR are used to blast away randomly in the woods. That's what airsoft and paintball is for.

 

[Captain O]

To me an ar15 is a light weight rifle that outperforms pistol cartridges in a handy 30 round package. Inside of 200 yards has the performance and accuracy for what I need. It is not a 308 and for defense inside of 200 yards due to controllability is superior to a semi auto 308. My wife can handle a AR where she has problems with 308 battle rifles. The AR, the 3 08MBR and shotgun all have there place and in some circumstances one is better than the other. I don't love or hate the AR I simply understand its limitations.

I feel the same way about the .30 Carbine (and at the same ranges, my MAK-91 National Match). Properly placed, the smaller cartridges work well. I simply prefer wood and steel, as well as the .30 caliber cartridge.

I can't seem to appreciate the 5.56 x 45 cartridge for anything larger than Coyote, Wolf or ground hogs. Heck, at 100 yards, the 110 grain .30 carbine is still travelling at 1602 fps and generating 627 foot pounds of energy.

As Jesus said when he was informed about the two swords before his betrayal in the Garden, "It is enough".

 

[Member 5605]

I'm not a fanboi of the .223/AR platform. I find it useful in specific situations.

I've owned maybe a dozen in the last 5 years, currently there are none in the boat.

They don't fit my style much.

 

[Captain O]

I'm not a fanboi of the .223/AR platform. I find it useful in specific situations.

I've owned maybe a dozen in the last 5 years, currently there are none in the boat.

They don't fit my style much.

12 in 5 years... This gives me pause. I find myself asking why did you buy one after you had sold the first? Then the obvious following question: Why did you sell them?

Perspiring minds want to know!