If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't have anyone here blocked.. the best of this site is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the galaxy types who repeatedly cry

RESISTENCE IS USELESS

 

[Blitzkrieg]

All constitutional rights except one are regulated.

And that's a good thing.

The BORs clearly states otherwise and you are a domestic enemy

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I believe that by the moment "they legally come for your guns" you have already lost.

By that moment the nation has already failed to sustain its spirit, the Constitution has been defeated. The only duty you have left is survival. If there are mass protests, civil disobedience, war and revolution then you can choose to join that; but it will be your moral choice and not a formal duty; it will be about building a new country instead of trying to resurrect the dead one.

The duty is now. It is about active politics, donations, education, involvement of all social groups into firearms culture. You cannot shoot your way out of failed politics unless at least half the nation is ready to die with you.

The redcoats came for our guns on April 19th, 1775

And failed

Is it too much to ask that you people actually read some real history?

 

[oknow]

The redcoats came for our guns on April 19th, 1775

And failed

Is it too much to ask that you people actually read some real history?

you are disrupting the playbook of the anti's that are trying to divide and conquer from within ffwall:

 

[Netspirit]

The redcoats came for our guns on April 19th, 1775
And failed
Is it too much to ask that you people actually read some real history?

You may as well read what's in front of you to understand the point better.

In 1775, the USA, the Constitution, the 2A did not exist. There existed British colonies, and after the redcoats "came for guns" (and they did not seek firearms and bullets, they came to restore their power and suppress the resistance) those British colonies, and their colonial law, effectively ceased to exist.

If they "come for your guns" tomorrow, with the approval from millions of American citizens, then whatever was built in 1776 will cease to exist. A nation where the majority is willing to part with its liberties is not worth fighting for. If there is a large resistance force like in 1775, a lot of us would consider joining, if not, I would consider taking care of my family.

I see our duty in preventing it from happening to begin with.

 

[oknow]

How about you people start reading what's in front of you, for starters?

In 1775, the USA, the Constitution, the 2A did not exist. There existed British colonies, and after the redcoats "came for guns" (and they did not seek firearms and bullets, they came to restore their power and suppress the resistance) those British colonies, and their colonial law, effectively ceased to exist.

If they "come for your guns" tomorrow, with the approval from millions of American citizens, then whatever was built in 1776 will cease to exist. A nation willing to part with its freedom is not worth fighting for. Our duty is to prevent it from happening to begin with.

it did exist, it just had not been put on paper yet

 

[Netspirit]

You can start shooting at police officers if that is how you interpret your constitutional duty. I respectfully disagree.

If there is a law to confiscate guns which is not struck down by the Supreme Court I am not going to shoot LE officers enforcing it - not just because I have no chance in a shootout against the police, not just because that officer may be your (or my) son or daughter on duty, but because this would be a grave murder, and I am not a felon.

This regime is not some British colonial rule, it is a stable domestic democracy. This land is not governed by what the American people of 1776 wanted (they are all dead), but by what the American people of 2013 believe in, and I have no reasons to think that the will of the people in 2013 is somehow inferior, or the Founding Fathers somehow wanted to enslave us into not being able to change our laws, all laws.

In a working democracy the will of the people trumps everything. The Second Amendment is a federal law expressing that will, and even if the people go as far as repealing 2A (like they did with the 18th Amendment in 1933) - it would be my duty to respect that will (but try to influence and change it, since I strongly disagree), unless there is a Revolution going on.

 

[1stklass]

Well except that even with "millions" of people supporting that "will of the people" that does not make it a majority. you need over 150 million people in this country to be a majority, and i guarandamtee you there arent 150 million in the USA that support Mother Theresa, let alone a gun ban or restrictions .. Second, they are flat out LYING about numbers to try to bolster their gun grab. 92 percent 56 percent 88 percent support this gun law or that gun law.... Look at that 92 percent, you cant get 92 percent of Americans to agree on ANYTHING.... I will believe that 92 percent when i see a video of Kim Jong first time ever bowling, where his first game ever he bowled a 300, or first time ever golfing hit 5 holes in one.... in a row.

 

[JackThompson]

It's true. You cannot count on justice or truth or even fair representation in a system that rigs the votes and lies to you about the results. What do you do? I don't know yet.


I do know this.

We are not a democracy.

We are a constitutional republic.

 

[Jammer Six]

What do you do? I don't know yet.

The only way to keep them from rigging elections is for all of us to wear our hats shiny side in.

 

[1stklass]

The only way to keep them from rigging elections is for all of us to wear our hats shiny side in.

Oh jammer jammer jammer..... once again you prove yourself to be nothing but an internet troll trying to stir things up. Belittling a conversation gets you nowhere.

Your "bronze supporter" badge proves nothing when combined with your rhetoric, except you are most likely admiring yourself in the mirror with your little Hitler-like mustache.....

You have already proven yourself in another thread a LIARRRRRR, Where are those pics of "gun free zone" signs posted in yours and your neighbors yards??? Oh thats right..... they dont exist..... You are now a lying troll. does your hair stick strait up and is it purple or blue?

 

[Bob D]

Reading this thread, it is fairly clear to me that the U.S. of A. has a limited lifetime. As soon as a significant number of citizens take up arms to protect the Constitution from the the U.S. Government, the Constitution becomes a worthless piece of paper, and the Bill of Rights will cease to hold any power for any of us.

Go ahead, anarchists.

This conversation is devolving into nothingness again.

 

[1stklass]

Your bill of rights is next to worthless anyways. I am in no way an anarchist nor do i see very many anarchists on this forum. In order to be an anarchist you must not care about anything. Most everyone on this site cares very deeply for their friends and family and are worried because they see their government obviously heading in a direction that is and will be abusive to its own citizens. The government does not trust the people, granted there is a small minority of people that should not be trusted, somewhere around .0003%, which our government has the power to lock those people away but threaten to let them out every time they dont get their tax raises. The people do not trust their government and i would bet its safe to say that at least 80 percent of your government cant be trusted. So who is the REAL problem?

I do not count nor want to count on my government to take care of me during a catastrophe or during a regional or global upset. Nor would any smart person. I dont have a crazy amount of preps, i dont plan on attacking our government. As long as our government stays in its boundaries, they have NOTHING to worry about from me. i'll live happily on my property playing with my kids and raising my fish.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Reading this thread, it is fairly clear to me that the U.S. of A. has a limited lifetime. As soon as a significant number of citizens take up arms to protect the Constitution from the the U.S. Government, the Constitution becomes a worthless piece of paper, and the Bill of Rights will cease to hold any power for any of us.

Go ahead, anarchists.

This conversation is devolving into nothingness again.

Someone needs to read the Declaration of Independence

 

[Bob D]

Someone needs to read the Declaration of Independence

Someone needs to read a history book.

 

[Bob D]

As for the declaration of independence, I believe it wholeheartedly supports my point.

"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."

If a group chooses to dissolve those political bands that attach them to the United States Government and assume among the powers of the earth the seperate and equal station to which they are entitled, they are by that action altering or abolishing among themselves the government based on the Constitution of the United States. Therefore, they "institute a new government" which will be founded and organized on such principles as to them seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

That may mean a word-for-word copy of the constitution and BoR, but it will not be the same document, and will not hold any power at all until it has been agreed upon (good luck) by that new government which may or may not be instituted to begin with. It will never hold the power that the Constitution does over its original nation, and in fact will have already been proven faulty by the very dissolution thereof.

So... I don't know. Smoke and mirrors, man... Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Bob D]

Which comes back to my discussion regarding the definition of a "right."
What decides a people's rights other than "the consent of the governed?"
The government is the enforcement of the rights that people are willing to live under.

When the government starts deviating from what the people will accept, there will be changes, for better or worse.

Our system of government was designed to responsibly adapt to those changes rather than requiring the destruction and replacement of the entire governing body, but no one knows yet whether that's even possible on a long timescale. This 'great experiment' is completely capable of collapsing in ruins. It definitely will if the government is overthrown. Some other similar system or systems will take its place.

It would be ironic if the final destruction of our constitution were to be brought on by those who most loudly espouse belief in its founding principles. It would be even more ironic if, after a successful revolution, an even more authoritarian system were built in its place.

 

[Father of four]

The overthrowing of the government is not what is needed in my opinion. Our government needs to be drastically downsized in the amount of people who work in it. Also the governmental rules, regulations and its power needs to be drastically downsized as well.

 

[Bob D]

All had once peaceful existences and reverted to Tyranny and slavery to control its people, its land and its commerce.
And all at the cost of despicable acts of human violations, and persecution and sterilization of specific nationalities.

True. Luckily in this nation, even today we have many unique freedoms that those peoples never did, and a system that doesn't seem completely broken yet. Still, all of those systems failed violently when the totalitarianism got to an unacceptable level, and were replaced by something else.

I would like to avoid a war of independence, insurrection, or revolution. They usually end badly (with exceptions) if they end at all.

My main point is that even if we were to rise up and overthrow the government due to its growing unconstitutional policies, we would wind up taking down the constitution with it, and it would be replaced by a system that "seems most likely to effect the safety and happiness" of the populace. Which is an idea that scares me as much as a slow slide toward authoritarianism.

I don't have much faith that the America of today would settle on a system even as functional as the one we've got.

 

[Bob D]

The overthrowing of the government is not what is needed in my opinion. Our government needs to be drastically downsized in the amount of people who work in it. Also the governmental rules, regulations and its power needs to be drastically downsized as well.

Definitely. As soon as it's an armed rebellion, that can't happen anymore. Armed resistance will end with either far more totalitarianism than currently if the U.S. holds out, or some new system or systems if they don't.

As I said before, If it gets to the point where honest citizens need to start shooting federal agents on their porch to defend their constitutional rights, then it's all over.