If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

[Bob D]

That's a very concrete definition. Doesn't say anything about self-defense or free speech or pursuit of happiness or liberty though.

 

[Jammer Six]

None of you, individually, collectively or any other way can change our government by force. You probably wouldn't even require a level of mobilization above the local police to hunt you down and end you. I'll laugh at you if you tried. That is not the same thing as being unable to change our government. (The NRA is not your friend in this matter. But once again, I digress.)

None of you have a right that cannot be taken from you.

I would have been alarmed that so few of you can define what a right is, what a constitutional right is or what a human right is, but then I remembered where I am and what I'm reading.

 

[dmancornell]

I would have been alarmed that so few of you can define what a right is, what a constitutional right is or what a human right is, but then I remembered where I am and what I'm reading.

That means that there are almost no human rights.

The irony, it is overwhelming.

 

[revjen45]

You have no obligation to engage a superior force at a time of their choosing when your defeat and death are inevitable. Better to survive and prevail later at the time of YOUR choosing.

 

[Jammer Six]

I share your concern. My fear is that as a people who cherish the Constitution, we will miss when it matters

Dare I ask? When is the time when it will matter?

The line in the sand that everyone drew has already been passed. No one did anything.

What everyone is doing now is selecting a new spot for a new line and rationalizing the retreat. Then the line will be re-drawn at the new point, and the chest beating will start over.

The funny part is that first, none of this is effective. Second, we are gaining rights, not losing them. And, therefore, third, effective work is being done that does not involve ponzi schemes, chest beating, blood in the streets or any of the drama being promoted here. It's boring, it's difficult, it's frustrating, it's time consuming. And it works.

 

[aslinged]

'Everyone' drew the same line? Can you introduce me sometime this...'everyone,' I'd love to meet him/them (your absurd label for a gross generalization).

And since you know them all so well, those millions and millions of people.....I'm wondering how did you manage the logistics of examining their actions to make sure they did 'nothing,' which is your exact quote as evidenced below.

Lastly, just curious what is this 'line' that you keep talking about?

The line in the sand that everyone drew has already passed. No one did anything.

What everyone is doing now is selecting a new spot for a new line, and after re-drawing it the chest beating will start over.

 

[JackThompson]

Many logical, well thought out explanations, examinations and thoughts and even some facts have been laid out.

All in all this has been a pretty good debate, minus Jammer's obvious attempts to stir the pot.

At this point I would move on to continue proactive and productive discussion and deliberation. Share and learn, and put people like Jammer on ignore.

He (And the magical everyone with him) is not here to participate in anything helpful.

Perhaps the OP's question is too vague and not well enough defined.

Perhaps it's better that it be vague and not defined. It's a pretty abstract concept and as we're seeing during this debate, there are a lot of nuances and visions of what constitutes "Coming for your guns". Perhaps when people say "Here's what I'd do" they should explain the scenario and course of events that would spur them into action.

 

[Jammer Six]

That's an excellent idea. Let's re-define "coming for your guns."

The notion of the police and agents of the government, showing up, in uniform, on duty, for the sole purpose of confiscating your guns under color of law and then those agents leaving with your guns is so, well, vague. It's abstract.

 

[Bruin]

To me, it sounds like Jammer six is phishing. A reminder, everything you type on a computer or say on a phone is being mined for data by or government or Google. If you have a cell phone our government can turn it on and monitor everywhere you go and everything you say without your knowledge, so be careful and don't fed the trolls.

 

[MikeE]

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't of your mind set. They faced the most powerful empire on the planet and won

Yes, but that was what the French army was for...

 

[oknow]

So the OP question has gone way off topic the question asked was. If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

Looking at this by what authority would one be required to fight? I could think of none. The Constitution give the rights to the people to defend themselves. Nothing spells out even vaguely one must do anything. The military exist in some forms to protect the people from certain acts and they are sworn under oath to do so. That said these acts neither confirm or deny what occurs if the come for your guns and should you resist in a sense. I sadly think people do not have a responsibility in the letter of the law to do anything. They may have a morally subjective responsibility to do something however,

Since 2008 I have been fighting very hard for my rights and not just my 2nd amendment rights, I have done so by legal intimidation and by phone and letters all done legally and forcefully in many cases. So yes I have fought hard when I thought they may come for my guns or consider acts to take them.

Should one read between the lines and see physical force as an option ?
Only you know what level you will take to defend yourself and allot will depend on the forced used.
Would it be a request to surrender or would it be a tank on your front lawn and drones surrounding your house?

Allot of people on both sides are throwing their testosterone around, but in reality each person needs to think what would you do and what may be worth dying for. If my family or myself are in unavoidable danger I already have my answer. Things get complicated quick if my life is not in danger. Yea I get the whole prying the gun from cold dead hands. But honestly how many would die for a box of ammo and a piece of metal and leave a family behind. When force was not the only option. I am going to be honest and say if there is no force to take my life or of those I love then I do not know that I would go forward and put their life in danger when it could have been avoided to perhaps live to fight another day. If we add all the guns and ammo of every member at NWFA I am willing to bet it would not add up to what one branch of the National Guard has in one city locally at their disposal.

Hopefully this will open the topic back up to logical and respectful discussion. Its a good topic if people would keep there egos in check and stop having p i s s i n g contests.

it is more than that and if you do give up that box of ammo and piece of metal there are no guarantees that you will still be around to help them or that will be all that they take because once some realize that they can take there is never enough look at the romans and the christians.

 

[oknow]

That's an excellent idea. Let's re-define "coming for your guns."

The notion of the police and agents of the government, showing up, in uniform, on duty, for the sole purpose of confiscating your guns under color of law and then those agents leaving with your guns is so, well, vague. It's abstract.

you mean the lame stream media lied about what happened after Katrina
or did you happen to miss that

 

[1stklass]

You have no obligation to engage a superior force at a time of their choosing when your defeat and death are inevitable. Better to survive and prevail later at the time of YOUR choosing.

:bsflag:
So thought MILLIONS of jews

 

[MikeE]

I'm surely missing something here, but it seems like 'they' have already come for 'our' guns. And I don't mean loudmouths like Vice President Biden and Sen. Feinstein who haven't managed to pass any legislation as of yet.
I mean we took our own guns, and ammunition, by behaving like babies wetting our pants and panic buying all fire-arms, ammunition, components, etc. Talk about a 'well regulated militia'. I guess that's what you get when you have a movement of the petty-bourgeois.
One thing we could do immediately, and it doesn't involve bleeding out in our driveways, is behave in a cooperative manner. 'Take what you need and leave the rest' as the Band once sang.

 

[JackThompson]

That's an excellent idea. Let's re-define "coming for your guns."

The notion of the police and agents of the government, showing up, in uniform, on duty, for the sole purpose of confiscating your guns under color of law and then those agents leaving with your guns is so, well, vague. It's abstract.

I'm not going to be baited into this... if you don't want to figure it out you are more than welcome to that.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

But you can't even lead a jackass from a burning building...

 

[Netspirit]

I believe that by the moment "they legally come for your guns" you have already lost.

By that moment the nation has already failed to sustain its spirit, the Constitution has been defeated. The only duty you have left is survival. If there are mass protests, civil disobedience, war and revolution then you can choose to join that; but it will be your moral choice and not a formal duty; it will be about building a new country instead of trying to resurrect the dead one.

The duty is now. It is about active politics, donations, education, involvement of all social groups into firearms culture. You cannot shoot your way out of failed politics unless at least half the nation is ready to die with you.

 

[revjen45]

"So thought MILLIONS of jews"

No, they thought that if they went along and kept their heads down it would be OK. I have no such delusions, any more than I think I could prevail in a shootout with the SWAT Team.

'Take what you need and leave the rest' as the Band once sang.'
Or "Just take what you need-don't empty out the store." _ Steppenwolf

 

[Jammer Six]

So thought MILLIONS of jews

Godwin. Game. Again.

 

[XtrmTJ]

"Shall NOT be infringed" !

 

[Jammer Six]

All constitutional rights except one are regulated.

And that's a good thing.