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If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Retread, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Retread

    Retread Not to far from Salem, OR Member

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    If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?

    Our founders did not want a “democracy” for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an “immoral majority” developing within the American People. We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Oh boy, that's a good topic.
    I have taught my children (and convinced my wife) that they have a responsibility (beyond self) to defend themselves and their family.
    If my wife were to be attacked and killed, her suffering is over rather quickly, but the suffering of her family and friends would go on for the rest of their lives.
    If we don't stand up for our NATURAL RIGHT to defend ouselves, our family, and other innocents, we are party to future atrocities.

    On the scale of our great nation, I feel that we each have a responsibility to defend the intent of the founding fathers (assuming that you agree with the founding fathers' intents.)

    But how and where to draw the line? We read about gross usurpations of human rights DAILY in the newspaper and hear about it on the news.
    It reminds me of the old saying "If you aren't outraged, you're not paying attention!"

    If you are a dyed-in-the-wool hard right-wing Republican, you should work just as hard to defend a left-wing Liberal's right to say anything he/she wants....
    If you see that left-winger getting abused by a law enforcement officer, you should stand up for him/her just as strongly as if that was your right-wing brother.

    And vice versa.

    Back on topic. I think that if you believe that the 2nd Amendment is the statement of a Natural Right (versus a privilege granted by the government) then you have a responsibility to thoughtfully decide the best course of action for the LONG TERM health of that right.

    Sometimes that will mean standing against tyranny and abuse of power and dying to defend our natural rights.
    Sometimes it will mean stepping back and saving yourself for a more appropriate defense of natural rights.

    Human Rights... When I see people cheer when someone from a different political leaning gets trampled, I am sick to my stomach.

    It's about Human Rights, not Right versus Left.
    Even when those same people are violently against YOUR rights... I will still stand for their Natural Rights.

    The right to self-defense is a natural right that is inherent in every living creature. That RIGHT cannot be taken away. It can be denied and violated, but that right is part of being alive.

    There's a very disturbing video called "Why cops fear SHTF" on Youtube.
    Before I lend my weight to help a public Servant in the performance of his duties, I definitely want to know what the "perp" did. What if it turns out that one of your brothers was carrying concealed, and the weapon printed when he bent over to get something from a low rack in the grocery store, some concerned citizen calls 911 because "there's a man with a gun in Albertson's!" and three armed law enforcement officers show up, two with pieces drawn and the third with a high-powered rifle and a scope, safety OFF and trained on your brother at a distance...?
    Your brother made a mistake and printed.
    Anyway, I think we have the responsibility to fight back when anyone, including the government, violates a Natural Right.
     
  3. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    That video was disturbing to watch as expected. All things Americans have collectively decided to accept as long as they still get their toys and day to day routines are not disturbed. Nothing is more important to Americans than the false belief that the status quo will go on forever. Whether it is a brown cab driver thrown into Gitmo or a skateboard kid being choked to death, the perception is that all of that is necessary to support our gluttonous lifestyles. No one wants to rock the boat.

    Of course, when the status quo is shattered and SHTF, being a cop is probably not the greatest career move. Most will probably do as they did in the LA riots and just quit and go home to their families. Or join the looters.
     
  4. PMB

    PMB Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Burt, I think you described it well.

    The brown cab driver- "Well, he must have been doing something bad, or hanging out with terrorists, or looking up information on *gasp* MACHINE GUNS like AR15s or something!"

    "Those damn kids on skateboards are a menace. It's about time they get what they deserve."

    It reminds me of one of my favorite thought experiments. "In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was nobody left to speak up. - Reverend Martin Niemoller, Germany, 1930's "

    Before they came for the Jews and Communists, they de-humanized them.
    Before they came for the unions, the catholics and the protestants, they villified them.

    There is a very thorough campaign going on right now to make those of us who believe that the 2nd Amendment is the guarantor of the rest of the Constitution look like crazies, or uneducated redneck hillbillies, or basically different than the majority of the voters.

    If you haven't read the blog that was hyperlinked in the first post of this thread, hope you'll find the time. Here it is again.

    If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?
    If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight? | The D.C. Clothesline

    So let's ask this another way...

    If they come for your neighbor's guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?
    If they choke a skateboarder for being rebellious, do you have a responsibility to fight?

    Pulling a gun should be our last resort... We shouldn't be trigger happy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    Well said. The whole post is well-reasoned, confident, and appropriate. Good thoughts.
     
  6. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Just because they do not wear a Red Star on their DHS helmet does not make them any different from an invadeing Red Army, Obama and his minons have declared their intent to seceretly murder Americans world wide with no Constitutional protections on the "Suspicion" of being anti-goverment.
    Obama is Openly arming America's enemies and destroying America's ability to defend it's borders. And then there is Bengazie and several dead active duty and retired SEALS, men who could make a differance in what is comming.
    I think the facts speak for themselves
     
  7. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  8. Trick

    Trick St Helens Active Member

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    X2
     
  9. Callidus98

    Callidus98 Portland Member

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    Great thread! To be honest, having to physically fight against our government scares the bubblegum out of me. Every time I go back and read some of what our founders wrote and said, I realize just how wise they were.

    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

    They saw this coming. I pray that I have their courage when it matters.
     
  10. PilotPete01

    PilotPete01 United States New Member

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    Really good read, thanks for posting!
     
  11. Tracer1951

    Tracer1951 New England New Member

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    "No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can
    any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is
    preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant,
    and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own
    weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders."

    also...........

    "The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
    Samuel Adams
     
  12. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six North Greenlake, Seattle New Member

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    Do you have a responsibility if Martians land?
     
  13. DemonNova

    DemonNova Cornelius Oregon Member

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    YES! No quarter given!
     
  14. Tracer1951

    Tracer1951 New England New Member

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    No you do not!

    Martians are just illegally entering undocumented aliens who came here to work.

    They came to do the jobs that others don't want to do (taking over the world)

    They can be productive citizens of the USA ( invasion of the body snatchers)

    We should embrace diversity!!!
     
  15. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six North Greenlake, Seattle New Member

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    That's what I thought.

    One Apache to another, watching the Martians land: "here we go again."
     
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  16. The Courier

    The Courier Newberg, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think alot of people picture federal agents knocking on their door saying they have a warrant to seize their firearms. But I dont think you'll receive that kind of courtesy, more like you come home and your door has been kicked in everything in your house has been overturned all your firearms and ammunition is gone. Why would they risk resistance when they can just take it when you are not home?
     
  17. DemonNova

    DemonNova Cornelius Oregon Member

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    Well, here goes. Probably get a lot of flack over this but... As I said in an earlier post "The Time for Talk is Over!!!" It is time to organize! We must stand together! Fighting back, one person at a time, will not only result in the life of that one decent individual being lost, it will send a message to the anti 2A pukes that hey, this is gonna be a cake walk, going up against one person at a time and they will continue their crusade.

    On the other hand, if they run up against a wall of organized jacketed lead, they'll know we mean business! I have nothing more to say! I've been so pizzed off since day 1 of this gun grab BS! As I've always thought and said - "Nothing major (or maybe even minor) gets changed with the gov unless there's a lot of bloodshed." They just go about their merry, deceitful, conniving, underhanded, accepting bribes way thinking no one will do anything!" TIME TO STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING!.

    No Mercy - No Quarter!

    OK, let me have it!
     
  18. DemonNova

    DemonNova Cornelius Oregon Member

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    Yes. If just to greet them and if they are not friendly, make their vacation here on earth as short as possible :cool:. Works the same for anti 2A meatheads! Definiton of "MeatHead": Dead from the neck up! Or can substitute "BoneHead for MeatHead."
     
  19. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six North Greenlake, Seattle New Member

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    It would mean a lot more if we were losing rights instead of gaining them...

    Now it just means that I watch and listen, and when folks spout off and say that we are losing rights when the exact opposite is true, I simply remember who to ignore. Paranoid means your whole world view is skewed, so when you tell me who to vote for, I remember that that's probably skewed, too.
     
  20. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    Here's what I think. I do not dissagree with you per say. But I think you would have to exercise a great deal of restraint to get organized. You would have to pull off the "Clark Kent" appearance by day and the Superman" by night. As soon as the Fed's catch wind of any such orginization the last thing you would hear would be the buzzing on an approaching drone.

    Any existing organizations that operates under the radar are generally of the unsrupulous sorts and generally you just dont walk up and say i want to join the gang. I am not against such orginizations in general but they do tend to attract unwanted attention and they tend to get into activities that I go to extremes to avoid. There is a time coming when we will have to make a choice to go under ground. We will have to make a choice for the sake of survival to associate and befriend such organizations. Is that time now? Probably not.

    I'm all for fighting for our rights as Americans but we do not live in the Wild West. If we start using the Wild West mentality we will get shut down quickly and they will take our guns away from us like they are doing in California.

    California Seizes Guns as Owners Lose Right to Keep Arms - Bloomberg

    They will hit us one at time. That is a low risk gamble for the authorities. An organized group would have to be smarter than that and beat them at their own game.

    To stand there and shout "Let's get Organized" is noble. But to organize haphazardly is nothing short of reckless. I personally do not have the knowledge or the resources to know where to start. Simply being a "Law Abiding Citizen" poses no immediate threat. That just means "I won't rock the boat". Even now as we interact on this forum we each sit in our nice comfy easy chair with the heat on enjoying a beer as we blurt out our grandest heroics. When the SHTF the arm chair hero's will be replaced by the true living legends that are yet to be revealed. Those Legends may be born from a "Law Abiding Citizen" OR from an "Unscrupulous Orginization".