Washington I1639 loophole

[Haftard]

So i though of this... If you take the gas tube out of an ar15 style rifle it acts as a bolt action ... There for you can still sell it to someone under 21 and dont have to go threw any of the b.s. .. Im sure other semi auto could be easily converted to do the same roght ?

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[The Heretic]

Maybe (a loophole). I have thought of this as a way around laws requiring registration of semi-autos - specifically ARs.

An AK or AR piston gun? Not so easily or practically done.

Something sticks in my head about plugs for some gas operated semi-autos. Not sure if it has to be permanent or not - that would be the grey area.

This also brings up the question of whether an AR lower, alone, in and of itself, is semi-auto since there are pump and bolt action uppers. If not, then a person could sell the lower and upper separately?

It seems to me that these kinds of questions would have to be settled in court.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Maybe (a loophole). I have thought of this as a way around laws requiring registration of semi-autos - specifically ARs.

An AK or AR piston gun? Not so easily or practically done.

Something sticks in my head about plugs for some gas operated semi-autos. Not sure if it has to be permanent or not - that would be the grey area.

This also brings up the question of whether an AR lower, alone, in and of itself, is semi-auto since there are pump and bolt action uppers. If not, then a person could sell the lower and upper separately?

It seems to me that these kinds of questions would have to be settled in court.

Since the lower is the uniquely identifiable "firearm", and the lower can be attached to a bolt action upper, then I would argue that I don't have any semi-automatic AR style rifles. I have some uppers, which are not firearms in and of themselves. I have some lowers, which are not semi-automatic firearms. So really, when they talk about a semi-automatic "assault rifle" I don't own any, unless I put some specific uppers on some specific lowers. This, to me, is a huge legal loophole that the writers of these bans don't understand because they know nothing about ARs.

 

[Ura-Ki]

What about those of us who run a Semi Auto Rifle that has its upper receiver as the ""Firearm" and has to be serialized? Dosnt matter what lower you run, or the drive system it uses then. What if said rifle also includes most of the evil accessories as standard factory issue, since it's adoption in 1958? And those are also assembled on said upper?

 

[The Heretic]

What about those of us who run a Semi Auto Rifle that has its upper receiver as the ""Firearm" and has to be serialized? Dosnt matter what lower you run, or the drive system it uses then. What if said rifle also includes most of the evil accessories as standard factory issue, since it's adoption in 1958? And those are also assembled on said upper?

A lot depends on the relevant law and the state courts. At the federal level it is currently a non-issue, although that can change quickly and federal lawmakers have more expertise and resources to write laws with fewer loopholes, and the ATF to make rule/rulings/regulations on the issue.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Plenty of grey areas for sure! Do we rely on what the State defines, or the ATF? And what's to stop them both from Flip-Flopping And causing all sorts of trouble! Today my BAR is legal under the current law, tomorrow it isnt, and because it was legal before, it didn't have to meet the requirements or standards yesterday, but some how now it does, where is the legal standing, dosnt that fit the laws standard of double jeopardy?

 

[The Heretic]

Plenty of grey areas for sure! Do we rely on what the State defines, or the ATF? And what's to stop them both from Flip-Flopping And causing all sorts of trouble! Today my BAR is legal under the current law, tomorrow it isnt, and because it was legal before, it didn't have to meet the requirements or standards yesterday, but some how now it does, where is the legal standing, dosnt that fit the laws standard of double jeopardy?

Double jeopardy means you can't be tried for the same crime twice (if acquitted the first time).

Maybe you are thinking of retroactive laws? Still wouldn't apply.

Unfortunately the government is allowed to change their minds, and now there are no standards because almost everybody in government, including the judicial system, does not recognize the Second Amendment as valid (and at least partially, a number of other rights enumerated in the BOR).

 

[Belial]

Stop using the anti's term "Loophole" for all of our sake...

 

[Medic!]

Not sure I like ''Loopholes''.
''Freedom'' sounds better to me.

But You can keep with loopholes being enough.

 

[Belial]

Why don't we call it exercising our right??

 

[Haftard]

We cant call it exercising ower rights cuz it,exscludes people who are not from the states ... So lets take the guns away then open,the boarders

 

[arakboss]

We cant call it exercising ower rights cuz it,exscludes people who are not from the states ... So lets take the guns away then open,the boarders

I agree that manual loading ARs would be legal. The problems will arise when some authority initiates action against possessor of such weapon and accuses them of having a S/A weapon. If I was going to test such authority I would want weapon with barrel that has no drilled gas port. The other test will be whether or not an FFL will transfer your manual loading weapon as such. My guess is the FFL is not going to transfer a weapon as manual loader simply because it's missing it's gas tube. It would be ideal if we could get our hands on affordable lowers marked with some kind of manual loading designation. The weapons exist but are definitely high end. Call around to some FFLs and see what they will transfer as a manual loading AR under the new laws.

 

[Sporting Systems]

I agree that manual loading ARs would be legal. The problems will arise when some authority initiates action against possessor of such weapon and accuses them of having a S/A weapon. If I was going to test such authority I would want weapon with barrel that has no drilled gas port. The other test will be whether or not an FFL will transfer your manual loading weapon as such. My guess is the FFL is not going to transfer a weapon as manual loader simply because it's missing it's gas tube. It would be ideal if we could get our hands on affordable lowers marked with some kind of manual loading designation. The weapons exist but are definitely high end. Call around to some FFLs and see what they will transfer as a manual loading AR under the new laws.

We transfer long guns, pistols, revolvers, frames, receivers, suppressors, AOW, SBRs. We don't transfer assault weapons under federal law. If the gun is built and operates as a manually operated rifle...that meets WA law. WA Law is defining an action, not the features (not yet anyways, give us another legislative and election cycle). So if we can validate that it meets Washington definition, good to go. If a gun owner then converts the weapon, just like making their own SBR or Short Barrel Shotgun, that's on them...not us.

 

[AMT]

Holy smokes! Getting around with loopholes? Why not just tear the whole thing apart, down to every pin and spring, then sell it as parts? Let them put it back together?

I also like my freedom and would NOT advocate doing that.

There are times to play with "grey areas" and there are times to get PO'd and protest, picket, send letters, and VOTE!

 

[arakboss]

We transfer long guns, pistols, revolvers, frames, receivers, suppressors, AOW, SBRs. We don't transfer assault weapons under federal law. If the gun is built and operates as a manually operated rifle...that meets WA law. WA Law is defining an action, not the features (not yet anyways, give us another legislative and election cycle). So if we can validate that it meets Washington definition, good to go. If a gun owner then converts the weapon, just like making their own SBR or Short Barrel Shotgun, that's on them...not us.

Would the lack of gas tube be sufficient evidence for your shop that an AR rifle is exempt under the I-1639 law and therefore your shop would transfer it like any bolt action manual loading rifle?

 

[Crohnos01]

You know even if your right and you can legally get the AR platforms out from under 1639, it still leaves squirrel guns like the 10/22 in a illegal status. The law needs to be repealed as an "infringement" pure and simple.
3 counties with high density population centers out of 39 in the state Washington voted for this crappy 1639. I vote no each and every time on these pieces of garbage, but two snowflakes in my county vote yes for my "no". I think we need a state version of the electoral college. If we didn't have the electoral college in the national level, Hillary would be in the oval office and Bill would be banging interns in the coat closer.

 

[arakboss]

You know even if your right and you can legally get the AR platforms out from under 1639, it still leaves squirrel guns like the 10/22 in a illegal status. The law needs to be repealed as an "infringement" pure and simple.
3 counties with high density population centers out of 39 in the state Washington voted for this crappy 1639. I vote no each and every time on these pieces of garbage, but two snowflakes in my county vote yes for my "no". I think we need a state version of the electoral college. If we didn't have the electoral college in the national level, Hillary would be in the oval office and Bill would be banging interns in the coat closer.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for I-1639 to be tossed out by the courts but until that happens it would be nice to minimize the burden it will have on the residents of WA. Blowback type weapons (10/22 included) are going to be a casualty unless somebody can come up with an easy method to convert them to manual loading function. There are lots of smart people out there and it could happen.

 

[arakboss]

Holy smokes! Getting around with loopholes? Why not just tear the whole thing apart, down to every pin and spring, then sell it as parts? Let them put it back together?

I also like my freedom and would NOT advocate doing that.

There are times to play with "grey areas" and there are times to get PO'd and protest, picket, send letters, and VOTE!

Or do all of the above, nothing wrong with taking advantage of legal options to get around government burdens. Tax Wizards do it all the time.

 

[nwslopoke]

There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not. Loopholes only exist when it's something liberals didn't think about.

I hate to educate some of them because it just highlights a new idea for something they try to take away.

 

[arakboss]

There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not. Loopholes only exist when it's something liberals didn't think about.

I hate to educate some of them because it just highlights a new idea for something they try to take away.

I guess we could communicate all of our ideas via PM but it's going to take a long time and how do I know your not one of them antis