I didn't have my gun

[40calruler]

I am in charge of managing all of the crew members for a large real estate company with security, janitorial, cashiers and maintenance on staff for a lot of the high rise buildings and large parking structures in SW.

 

[40calruler]

The vast majority of trouble comes from the free standing parking structures that anyone can enter and hang out at. Many street people go to the stairwells and even just corners of garages to shoot up or whatever their up to out of sight from police and off the sidewalk...Especially if the weather is bad.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Thats good information, thank you.

 

[forefathersrback]

I mean no disrespect to anyone on this thread, members on here, have served their country, and communities with the upmost respect. That being said....choosing not to get involved in this situation, is the wisest choice for your family, and your own well being. I have been involved in a few situations, where I reacted without thought. Just happened. Don't know why, I guess it's just me. Fortunately, things did not get to out of hand. Unfortunately a lot of good citizens coming to the aid of others have been demonized from the court system, then end up facing a stiffer penalty, than the A~holes doing the crime. How do you make a choice? I don't know! I guess I will personally do what I do, I can't help it.

 

[The Heretic]

It may be "wiser" to not get involved - but then no one ever accused me of being a wise person. I do a LOT of stupid stuff just because that is the way I am.

YMMV - as I said, it is your choice - I am not your judge.

 

[Tony617]

I have a couple of center of mass lockboxes that have the same key. That way you don't get confused which key to use for the lockbox in different vehicles.

http://www.center-of-mass.com

 

[The Heretic]

I have a couple of center of mass lockboxes that have the same key. That way you don't get confused which key to use for the lockbox in different vehicles.

http://www.center-of-mass.com

There is a lock company that will provide locks for boxes, etc. (typically truck tool boxes) that take your ignition key.

http://www.boltlock.com/

 

[40calruler]

There is a lock company that will provide locks for boxes, etc. (typically truck tool boxes) that take your ignition key.

http://www.boltlock.com/

It may be "wiser" to not get involved - but then no one ever accused me of being a wise person. I do a LOT of stupid stuff just because that is the way I am.

YMMV - as I said, it is your choice - I am not your judge.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows what the "wise" choice is. The problem is that if everyone always makes the wise choice then nobody takes any chances. I am more for taking a chance than sitting and thinking about if the actions I am considering are the wisest choice in the moment. Be that with employees or a group of scum bags.
For example I did not become the head of a city for a international company when I am still in my early 30s by always making the wise choice in my corporate gigs. I have worked in quite a few environments of corporate worlds and had I gone with what people thought was wise rather than my gut I would be like everyone else. Just hoping I can get by and not get noticed to keep collecting my check.

Instead I cannot help jumping a bully no matter the situation or how much they outranked me and sticking up for my employees if they are in the right. Obviously at work it is verbal but people tend to take notice of the guy who may not make the wise choice but stuck his neck out in the line of fire to draw a line in the sand against racist or just bully corporate a#$ holes.
I would likely still be managing 3 restaurants as I was when I was 19 if I simply stuck to the safe choices life offers and stuck my head in the sand when someone went way out of line just because in their mind a boss is "worth more" and they have a right to talk down to a lowly staff member. I manage my crew in a way that I make sure everyone knows I do not feel above them and even if they are cleaning the gutters I jump in next to them to help get the job done.
When your crew knows you never ask them to do something you will not do yourself and you truly respect them they have your back. That has been proven to me time and time again when some jerk that outranks me thinks my crew will keep quiet while I call them out for a insult or insensitive action to someone.
If you all respect each other and everyone knows they have each others back its hard to argue with 100 people calling a guy a scum bag rather than just me. If you want to play wise or safe I suggest not trying to work your way up in a corporate world or the world in general.

 

[The Heretic]

I have never desired to "work my way up" in any kind of hierarchy. I just want to do my job in a fashion that I enjoy. Recently however I found myself in a position where I am directing a project because of timing and because I wanted to see it done right.

I am at a position in my life where failure in this endeavor will mean at most some inconvenience at having to find another job until such time as I retire, or at worst, retiring early at a lesser level of comfort.

For me, a nerd who is borderline Aspergers, I don't like directing what other people do - I would rather do what they are doing and let others do the directing. But I could see that if I didn't, then it would either not get done, or it would not be done right, and for once in this particular position I had a chance to try to make sure it was done right.

If it doesn't then the world won't end, but its my job and I was tired after three years there of seeing it done the wrong way. The previous lead was pushed out because he stepped on too many toes at the wrong time - it also didn't help that he kept everything to himself in an effort to horde power for whatever reason. No one is indispensable in their job - valuable, yes, indispensable, no - at some point if you become enough of a PIA, or someone with enough pull decides they don't like you, you will find yourself with a pink slip.

That is corporate life. In my profession, it just means I turn around and find a job somewhere else.

But you either feel compelled to do "the right thing" or you just disregard the possible consequences, or a little of both. I don't want to look back at my life and think about a situation where I could have made a big difference in helping somebody in that kind of situation and I didn't because of the possible costs.

To each their own. As I said, we don't owe other people the help they need, but for our own reasons, we help them nonetheless. If a person doesn't help, then that is their decision, but IMO they missed out on a chance to make the world a better place for everyone, including their own family.

"And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul?"

Put your own definition on "soul" - everybody has their own - it doesn't need to have a religious connotation. The point is, it may cost a person all their property, maybe even their life, but what kind of world are we leaving our family if we let the bad guys win because we feel that getting involved will cost us too much??

 

[Three Bars]

Respect is what's it's all about, and if you're running a crew you have to earn it. You earn it by being consistent in your decisions, and as you said not asking for anything you would not ask of yourself.
Before I retired my guys knew I'd go to hell and back if they were up front and honest with me....they knew what to expect if they were not (you wouldn't be around long)....putting together, and being part of a great group of guys working for a common goal is a reward all to itself.

 

[40calruler]

Respect is what's it's all about, and if you're running a crew you have to earn it. You earn it by being consistent in your decisions, and as you said not asking for anything you would not ask of yourself.
Before I retired my guys knew I'd go to hell and back if they were up front and honest with me....they knew what to expect if they were not (you wouldn't be around long)....putting together, and being part of a great group of guys working for a common goal is a reward all to itself.

I agree and if I did not show my employees respect I would not have a low turnover and great employees. I have seen good and bad managers and tried to soak in anything good I saw. Although I do not think I am like most managers as I put my crew ahead of things others might not. In turn when one crew member was fired by me and went to HR with a complaint of me being a bully all along my crew was asked by HR about me being a "bully". I was later told by HR that the majority laughed at the idea and said that the only person that might call me a bully is the lazy a#$ I fired after giving 4 chances to pick up his game.

Respect for everyone goes a long way. Outside of work there are not enough guys these days that do simple things like holding the door for a woman rather than plowing through and letting an old woman or one with kids struggle to get inside after having the door slammed on them. Old men are shocked when I open the door and say "go ahead sir". I do not think it should be shocking but most people seem to have just not taught their kids who are now adults simple common courtesy. Sad if you ask me.

 

[Sstrand]

40Cal
That reminds me of an incident about 30 years ago. I held the door for a young (2o something) woman.
She indignantly said, "You didn't HAVE to do that for me!"
I smiled and said, "I didn't do it for you. I did it for me."
. . . made me feel so good!!!

Sheldon

 

[revjen45]

There is an excellent discussion of this subject on another site. Do a search for the dangers of intervention. The first choice you have to make is do you care enough about the recipient of the clang, honk, tweet to flush the rest of your life down the toilet for them? Sorry to be selfish, but my family and few lifelong friends are the only people who rate the answer of YES. If so then jump right on in. If not, then keep on truckin' and be elsewhere when the minions of Leviathan arrive.

 

[Certaindeaf]

There is an excellent discussion of this subject on another site. Do a search for the dangers of intervention. The first choice you have to make is do you care enough about the recipient of the clang, honk, tweet to flush the rest of your life down the toilet for them? Sorry to be selfish, but my family and few lifelong friends are the only people who rate the answer of YES. If so then jump right on in. If not, then keep on truckin' and be elsewhere when the minions of Leviathan arrive.

Well would you at least have the common decency to pick up a cash stuffed wallet that somehow got ejected from a fray unnoticed? lol

 

[Three Bars]

revjen45
You certainly bring up a valid consideration. I don't think anyone here is talking about blindly jumping in without having a clear understanding of what they are observing.

One thing that's become evident in this thread is that there are no cut and dried rules of whether to engage or not, and how to engage if you do.
Each person has their own guidelines of when and if to become involved.

One issue that has been touched on, and I'm sure is shared by everyone, is that by having the responsibility of carrying concealed is the extra layer of caution to be applied.

 

[Three Bars]

40
Not wanting to go too far off topic, but...

I think you hit it out of the park...I'm just appalled at the lack of respect displayed in today's society.
And you're absolutely correct by saying it starts at home.

Family dinners are becoming a ritual of the past, and that's a huge problem. Parents are not engaging themselves in their kids lives, and more and more they are delegating parenting to others...school for example.
They're cheating their kids by not giving them the tools they will need to negotiate their own lives when they leave home.

And common courtesy is a lost fundamental of modern America.
We are losing our once proud American culture......and then we wonder why we have so many social problems.

Past societies have all fallen apart after social norms of respect, morals, and courtesy have gone by the way side.

Sorry about my rant...I couldn't help myself.
Now back to you're regularly scheduled program.

 

[The Heretic]

40Cal
That reminds me of an incident about 30 years ago. I held the door for a young (2o something) woman.
She indignantly said, "You didn't HAVE to do that for me!"
I smiled and said, "I didn't do it for you. I did it for me."
. . . made me feel so good!!!

Sheldon

I would have said "you are right - I didn't HAVE to do it for you - no law says I have to, it is a matter of courtesy".

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I hold doors for everyone, and I haven't caught any flack about it for decades. Just lucky I guess.

 

[clee109]

Based on all of the well stated replies to my topic which I appreciate greatly, I have drawn a few conclusions.

My feeling of dread was of course sympathy towards the woman receiving the beating. No woman, street, prostitute, dumb, rich, beautiful, ugly, whatever deserves a beating, especially by 6 other people. The other reason was because I saw myself there. I deny these people money every time they ask me (I simply don't carry cash anyways) and they could have very well jumped me and without my means of self defense I could have ended up severely beaten and unable to continue to support and defend my family.

I didn't have the right tools for the job at hand anyways. With or without my gun, my gun was simply not going to be the right answer. From what I've read, the consensus is that I need to add a less lethal means of defense to my EDC. I'll be ordering some pepper spray to add to my mix shortly. With all of the possible outcomes, positive to negative, it wasn't MY life or my FAMILIES life in jeopardy and my gun is only there to protect those lives. Pepper spray is the right choice for defending strangers.

I agree that it's shameful that we feel we cannot help our fellow man in a time of dire need simply because our legal system favors criminals over law abiding citizens. However, this is not because of us, this is because we as a populous have voted in officials who feel this way. To that, we have the same ability to vote in officials who feel the way we do. Sadly though, we're becoming more and more outnumbered.

As to corporate life (for bubblegums and gigs), I did that for three years straight. I went from the bottom up to a department lead at a decent sized public/international corporation. I just couldn't take it anymore. The politics, the constant arguing etc... I quit, I went to self employment. It's a helluva lot harder to do it on your own, but I can do it my way. I answer to myself, I work when I want, I bully myself and I love myself, I'm my favorite and my black sheep haha. I get to work with new people all of the time on various different types of projects. Some of my clients thoughts on guns are, well, questionable. To them I respect those questionable ideas and that's why I didn't have my gun that day.

However, now, I take that idea of answering to myself and doing it my way one step further. I carry, regardless of their beliefs. If they don't want to utilize my services because of my beliefs, that's fine for them. At the end of the day, I go home to my family and that's what counts. They can take their money somewhere else.

If we all quit sacrificing our beliefs for the mighty dollar, we'd end up changing this country for the better and restore it to its rightful prominence in the worlds eye.

 

[Sabertooth]

Small can of pepper spray in my pocket, larger can in my camera bag as well as my pistol. Left my pistol in the car when I had to go into a no carry building, like the capitol building. Make sure the pepper spray is stream type nozzle not fog type. Get the strongest concentrate you can legally own. Stuff will break up a bubblegum beating party in a hurry.