I didn't have my gun

[Riot]

Small can of pepper spray in my pocket, larger can in my camera bag as well as my pistol. Left my pistol in the car when I had to go into a no carry building, like the capitol building. Make sure the pepper spray is stream type nozzle not fog type. Get the strongest concentrate you can legally own. Stuff will break up a bubblegum beating party in a hurry.

I've been sprayed a lot...this crap is the HOTTEST STUFF I know of.

http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-Stream-Solution-0-68-Ounce/dp/B004Y4TYIW

Most LEO agencies carry .7%....this is 1.3%. When we switched from .7% to 1.3% we noticed a big difference. This crap will make your skin burn if you leave it on long enough.

 

[40calruler]

40
Not wanting to go too far off topic, but...

I think you hit it out of the park...I'm just appalled at the lack of respect displayed in today's society.
And you're absolutely correct by saying it starts at home.

Family dinners are becoming a ritual of the past, and that's a huge problem. Parents are not engaging themselves in their kids lives, and more and more they are delegating parenting to others...school for example.
They're cheating their kids by not giving them the tools they will need to negotiate their own lives when they leave home.

And common courtesy is a lost fundamental of modern America.
We are losing our once proud American culture......and then we wonder why we have so many social problems.

Past societies have all fallen apart after social norms of respect, morals, and courtesy have gone by the way side.

Sorry about my rant...I couldn't help myself.
Now back to you're regularly scheduled program.

I do not think it is off topic here. I watch my kids play outside and some of the neighbors I have had to deem unfit to play with my kids. When I am sitting on the porch and hear a 9 year old swearing like a sailor and saying f u and kiss my a$% they are no longer welcome. My kids know well enough to come tell me if a neighbor kid is acting that way. Problem is it really limits their friends. I cannot let them be around these little punks but that only leaves a couple neighbors that do teach their kids respect.
I wish that was not the case but I will be damned if my kids will be raised to have a mouth like that or talk back to their friends parents.

Those are the kids of the future as of now..Not a fun future to think about. TV is the babysitter and violent video games in the hands of 8 year olds. I do not want my kids learning the joy of shooting from a game that displays your high score for making your friends character blow up into a pile of guts.

That is how these teenage street punks grew up.

Alright, Sorry I am done ranting as well.

 

[40calruler]

Based on all of the well stated replies to my topic which I appreciate greatly, I have drawn a few conclusions.

My feeling of dread was of course sympathy towards the woman receiving the beating. No woman, street, prostitute, dumb, rich, beautiful, ugly, whatever deserves a beating, especially by 6 other people. The other reason was because I saw myself there. I deny these people money every time they ask me (I simply don't carry cash anyways) and they could have very well jumped me and without my means of self defense I could have ended up severely beaten and unable to continue to support and defend my family.

I didn't have the right tools for the job at hand anyways. With or without my gun, my gun was simply not going to be the right answer. From what I've read, the consensus is that I need to add a less lethal means of defense to my EDC. I'll be ordering some pepper spray to add to my mix shortly. With all of the possible outcomes, positive to negative, it wasn't MY life or my FAMILIES life in jeopardy and my gun is only there to protect those lives. Pepper spray is the right choice for defending strangers.

I agree that it's shameful that we feel we cannot help our fellow man in a time of dire need simply because our legal system favors criminals over law abiding citizens. However, this is not because of us, this is because we as a populous have voted in officials who feel this way. To that, we have the same ability to vote in officials who feel the way we do. Sadly though, we're becoming more and more outnumbered.

As to corporate life (for bubblegums and gigs), I did that for three years straight. I went from the bottom up to a department lead at a decent sized public/international corporation. I just couldn't take it anymore. The politics, the constant arguing etc... I quit, I went to self employment. It's a helluva lot harder to do it on your own, but I can do it my way. I answer to myself, I work when I want, I bully myself and I love myself, I'm my favorite and my black sheep haha. I get to work with new people all of the time on various different types of projects. Some of my clients thoughts on guns are, well, questionable. To them I respect those questionable ideas and that's why I didn't have my gun that day.

However, now, I take that idea of answering to myself and doing it my way one step further. I carry, regardless of their beliefs. If they don't want to utilize my services because of my beliefs, that's fine for them. At the end of the day, I go home to my family and that's what counts. They can take their money somewhere else.

If we all quit sacrificing our beliefs for the mighty dollar, we'd end up changing this country for the better and restore it to its rightful prominence in the worlds eye.

I am happy you did post your viewing as it did lead to a lot of good discussion about non lethal ways to help people. People will choose to soak that in or not and the fact that you say you will carry and also get spray seems like maybe all the rants did help out in future situation you may encounter...hopefully not.

Either way as far as corporate life I agree for the most part. Cut throat A holes seem to be in charge of most places. I have left a couple corporate gigs due to that. I do not play the game that way. I work harder than the guy next to me and if that is not enough I move on. My current company considers Portland a very small part of their portfolio so I am left to my own devices most of the time.
So long as the jobs all get done they are happy and do not try to micro manage me. They are aware I left my old company due to their weapons and lack of security policies and do not try to tell me what I can or cannot have with me in a city that can be dangerous. I am happy with them but can totally understand your move to be on your own.

At 25 I bought 2 businesses thinking I wanted to be on my own after being in charge of the franchises 250 locations and hating the constant travel around the country keeping me from being around my family. I sold them because I found myself making a little less money for a whole lot more hours. 7 days a week at least 10 hours a day if I was lucky. I chose to sell and move back to a paycheck and a semi regular home life. I am glad your move to be your own boss has worked out better than mine did and wish you the best of luck in it.

 

[40calruler]

and sorry for my delayed responses I thought this thread died off and had not looked. Hate to beat a dead horse but when I saw quite a few comments I had not read I had to respond.

 

[40calruler]

I've been sprayed a lot...this crap is the HOTTEST STUFF I know of.

http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-Stream-Solution-0-68-Ounce/dp/B004Y4TYIW

Most LEO agencies carry .7%....this is 1.3%. When we switched from .7% to 1.3% we noticed a big difference. This crap will make your skin burn if you leave it on long enough.

Riot thanks again for good info. This stuff is stronger than what I had on my belt and I just ordered 20 to give to some of my employees and myself. A lot of the time the threat of being sprayed is enough but when it is not I do want the best that I can get my hands on.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

@Riot,

I have a Mk. II size and a Mk. 9 can of DT's 50/50 blend of OC/CS, but have never tried it. Has anyone had actual field use with the blend of OC/CS?

I used some of my Fox Labs 5.3 a few weeks ago, caught some blowback of the overspray and THAT was enough to cause me breathing problems. If anyone carries Fox 5.3, rest assured it will take care of business for you.

A little tiny can and my gosh there is a lot of misery in there.

 

[40calruler]

Misery does not even quite cover it as far as I am concerned. Someone said get a spray rather than a fog and that is excellent advice. The back spray can leave you crying from the teargas and burning everywhere it got on you. My hands turned red and swollen when I had to spray the guy attacking an employee just from the wind hitting it and very little coming back on me.
The only good part is the direct spray to the bad guys face is far worse than what I felt.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Exactly, I really can't see any use for the fog unless it's indoors. Or actually not at all. Cooking maybe.

All the units I have are the stream and even then there is a little fine mist. I forgot to hold my breath when I deployed it and paid the price the moment later. But the subject got it way worse. There's that. Lol.

 

[40calruler]

Exactly, I really can't see any use for the fog unless it's indoors. Or actually not at all. Cooking maybe.

All the units I have are the stream and even then there is a little fine mist. I forgot to hold my breath when I deployed it and paid the price the moment later. But the subject got it way worse. There's that. Lol.

I would never volunteer myself but it would be nice to hear someone that has had a direct spray to the face. When I sprayed the one guy his face was swollen so bad his eyes where shut.
With the pain I felt I could overcome that but that little choking feeling we have felt times a thousand is likely what they feel. Even still I want the strongest and best I can get. I cannot imaging a fog having a good use unless you cannot aim a stream 2-5 feet away which is hard to believe and the fog goes EVERYWHERE. The wind catches it and you can get it almost as much as the bad guy. Streams are all I will ever consider.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

I think the fog is made for people who are not trained or comfortable with aiming and using weapons, which is a losing idea in the first place.

 

[jbett98]

I've been hit with just a trace of pepper spray. Myself and another guy were holding a drunk wife beater against a 2' wide post at a boat ramp near the Sandy river.
The 80 yr old woman that ran the marina, hosed the drunk right in the face within 1' of him.
I just managed to turn my face in the nick of time.
White vinegar in full strength will wipe off most of irritant on your skin, but not your eyes.

 

[rick benjamin]

Anyone have an opinion on the cone pattern?

 

[Riot]

@Riot,

I have a Mk. II size and a Mk. 9 can of DT's 50/50 blend of OC/CS, but have never tried it. Has anyone had actual field use with the blend of OC/CS?

I used some of my Fox Labs 5.3 a few weeks ago, caught some blowback of the overspray and THAT was enough to cause me breathing problems. If anyone carries Fox 5.3, rest assured it will take care of business for you.

A little tiny can and my gosh there is a lot of misery in there.

You have the blended mix? Um...how the frack did you get that?! Yes, we've tried it...let me give you an idea about that stuff.

Three floors...guy sprayed like half a second of that stuff on the top tier. Anyone within 50 feet was DONE. Could not see, could not breathe...the guy that sprayed it was even having difficulty with it and he EATS the stuff. One of the guys tried to stick his head in a toilet to breathe with no success...he had to get walked off.

Conclusion: if you're not wearing a mask, store that crap. Otherwise, unless you want to clear out an area you're going to be just as useless as your target(s).

Anyone have an opinion on the cone pattern?

Dumps out a lot of product at once...lots of "blow back" (meaning if you're too close you're going to get it on you). Cone is meant for riot stuff...multiple badguys at once hoping to get a lot of product on them.

 

[40calruler]

You have the blended mix? Um...how the frack did you get that?! Yes, we've tried it...let me give you an idea about that stuff.

Three floors...guy sprayed like half a second of that stuff on the top tier. Anyone within 50 feet was DONE. Could not see, could not breathe...the guy that sprayed it was even having difficulty with it and he EATS the stuff. One of the guys tried to stick his head in a toilet to breathe with no success...he had to get walked off.

Conclusion: if you're not wearing a mask, store that crap. Otherwise, unless you want to clear out an area you're going to be just as useless as your target(s).




Dumps out a lot of product at once...lots of "blow back" (meaning if you're too close you're going to get it on you). Cone is meant for riot stuff...multiple badguys at once hoping to get a lot of product on them.

The straight stream reminds me of a very nasty super soaker. It goes a lot further than I would expect so that is a plus and you do not have the mist so much like a cone. I have got it on my numerous times with all 3 types and the one that has my vote is the straight stream. You are likely to get some on you but not a huge mist.
Even just testing the can on the roof of one of the parking structures it made me and my assistant manager gag...Who is the same guy that was attacked and got spray on him when I had to spray the crack head. Oddly when I sprayed at first the guy had begun to say the N word to my black friend again and I sprayed directly in his mouth and then moved up to his nose. That guy still had fight in him but was blind and could hardly talk. Just the drugs that even allowed him to keep screaming and swinging. Either way he was done as a threat to us.

When I ran up he was punching my assistant and calling him racial slurs and calling him f ing Barack Obama. The stream to the mouth was just a perfect shot at that moment. Lucky but definitely made it hard for him to run his mouth or continue his attack aside from punching the air like a crazy man.

 

[clee109]

I just picked up some Saber at the Sportsmans Warehouse out here. A lil extra bulk to my left pocket and now I need to invest in a belt mag holder since my left pocket is now consumed with the spray. Hopefully in a time of need it will do the job, or at least give me the distance/time to draw if needed and be there in a situation like what happened.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

I did a little digging and discovered I have three cans of the OC/CS, the Mk II which is the off-duty carry, the Mk IV for service and the Mk 9, Party Size.


Good to hear it is effective.

 

[ARKLITE881South]

Whoa, bad situation, "if'' you would have had a gun, pulled it, the ''street kids'' scatter, the cops roll up, your standing there with a beat up woman,holding a gun. Well, i think you can foresee what could happen. Not good, small can of some type of mace or something close would help. Lets face it, its almost gladiator time, people gather to see others that are hurt, or being hurt, but, won't help or get involved. Its like ''hay, i don't want to get involved, or I didn't see a thing''. Me, i can't live that way, i've got to live with myself.

 

[40calruler]

Whoa, bad situation, "if'' you would have had a gun, pulled it, the ''street kids'' scatter, the cops roll up, your standing there with a beat up woman,holding a gun. Well, i think you can foresee what could happen. Not good, small can of some type of mace or something close would help. Lets face it, its almost gladiator time, people gather to see others that are hurt, or being hurt, but, won't help or get involved. Its like ''hay, i don't want to get involved, or I didn't see a thing''. Me, i can't live that way, i've got to live with myself.

Even if you had to draw on one or two at least 4 would be on the ground in agony from the spray when the cops rolled up. Helps your side a lot to have them unable to scatter other than blindly into traffic.

Good to see that although most of us carry all the time there are still so many willing to give the non lethal option a try. It works and does not end up with you in prison. Maybe a scumbag lawyer could try and get an assault charge but that is a lot easier to fight than anything to do with a gun these days.

I do think "gladiator" works for a lot of the situations as people do just stand and stare at a fight no matter if it is "fair" or not. Heck they may as well cheer for all the good they do for our community. Hose the bastards with spray if you are like many of us here and cannot stand by and watch. If that does not work for all of them just be prepared as a wild blind swing still hurts especially if you are not braced and ready to turn with it. Pay attention and be safe.

Do not take the spray mildly as we have discussed it is a harsh and painful weapon even if not lethal it sure feels like it could be when it is on you.

 

[40calruler]

I just picked up some Saber at the Sportsmans Warehouse out here. A lil extra bulk to my left pocket and now I need to invest in a belt mag holder since my left pocket is now consumed with the spray. Hopefully in a time of need it will do the job, or at least give me the distance/time to draw if needed and be there in a situation like what happened.

I had Saber for a while and it works well. Little black can of evil. If you want to not spend money on the mag holster I just took my pocket knife and cut a belt loop in the pleather case it comes in. Makes it easy to grab as in your pocket if you are bent over after getting hit or something it is not always the easiest place to pull a weapon from. Unlike your gun I do not recommend shooting through the pocket. Rather than a burnt hole in your pants it will leave a big burn on your junk. I had an employee leave it off safe and put it in his pocket and it sprayed him in the leg when he bent down to pick up a hammer. Welt was huge on his thigh.

 

[clee109]

I just picked up the small keychain style can and also one for my wife too.

I could always hang it from a belt loop with a caribiner, but then it's pretty obvious that it's there... It'll be nice when the temp drops and I can toss on some extra pockets...