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How much ammo to stockpile for TEOTWAWKI?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by MissJ, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. MissJ

    MissJ Clackamas County Active Member

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    OK, I already know the overwhelming response will be "as much as you can get your hands on" and that's fine, and I agree.

    But in the interest of having attainable goals I want to set the bar yay high, reach that goal and then I can start devoting dollars to some other projects. Afterall every dollar I spend on ammo is a dollar I cannot spend on scopes, more guns, body armor, tools, food, boots etc.

    So here is our situation, if TEOTWAWKI happens we will be living a small farmer lifestyle. We are relatively remote on 3 acres in the country but have neighbors and live 35 miles from a city so will have a need for protection. But we don't have any grandiose idears about waging war on the enemy or helping to overthrough a corrupt government or dictatorship or anything of that nature.

    Most of the "shooting" we would likely do would be small game and varmints. Any gun battle we get into is fairly likely to be our last unless we are facing a lone, ill-equipped looter or possibly a small group of less than 5 ill-organized ill-equipped looters. Any other scenario and we are probably saving our ammo and running, or if we are taken by surprise then we are dead. Not a pretty thought, but realistic.

    So....what and how much to stockpile for our needs?

    Here's the firearms that we currently possess

    AR-15 .223 cal with iron sights, 3 mags
    .22LR rifle with iron sights, 2 mags
    .22LR target pistol 3 mags
    9mm semi-auto pistol 6 mags
    12 ga shotgun
    .380 auto pistol (crappy, only has 1 magazine & cannot find more mags)
    bb gun/air gun

    Our next pruchase will most likely be a .30-06 scoped rifle, or maybe a .308 NATO.

    We can factor in a small amount for barter, but honestly I don't plan to barter ammo....I have other barter items I've been stockpiling and bartering ammo would only happen when the other barter items were exhausted. I'd probably barter food before I'd barter ammo, and I'm unlikely to barter food either.
  2. moose

    moose northwet coast Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I'm moose and I am an ammo hoarder.

    There are only 2 situations where you have too much ammo. The first is when you are on fire. Second is when you are swimming.

    That being said, I usually think a kilo per tube, more for 22's, less for bolt guns.
  3. MissJ

    MissJ Clackamas County Active Member

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    Ha! that's a cute saying. And I cannot argue. But I can think of a 3rd situation...when you are sitting in your bunker surrounded by tens of thousands of rounds of ammo and you just popped the lid off your last can of tuna.... I wouldn't exactly call that a problem of too much ammo, but I would call that a problem of poor planning. And that's all I'm really talking about....when is it "enough" to move on to other priorities? So about 1,000 per gun you think?

    5,000 rds .22 LR
    1000 rds .223
    1000 rds 9mm
    500 rds 12 ga shotshells
    500 rds .380

    does that sound reasonable? Of course I'll be constantly replacing these as I use them up in target practice, and will try and buy a little more than I use each time, but do you think that would be a reasonable goal? Or should I go for 1,000 shot shells as well? those are spendy little buggers....
  4. Phather

    Phather South SnoCo Active Member

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    If your .380 is "crappy," I am guessing it will only be used in an emergency or if the 9mm is no longer available, I would lessen the count of .380 to 100-200 and increase the 9mm to 1500. 9mm is a better stopper and is also currently cheaper than .380 ammo. As far as shotshells are concerned, I would split the count further based on what you want it for. I'd think 250 each of buck and slugs for general defense and hunting, then maybe 250 or so of birdshot if you think you may use it to hunt fowl.

    PS If your ar is to be used primarily for bad guy defense, you should double the mag count, have at least 6 loaded mags handy as well as a way to carry them on your person if need be.
    dave and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    1000 rds/main rifle
    500 rds/main pistol
    250 buck, 100 slug, 150 bird/ shotgun
    5000 .22

    Those are pretty standard numbers you see most places.

    I personally say 7700 on the .22 but that is because you can get 14 of the 550rd federal bulk pack boxes of ammo nicely in a Fat .50 ammo can.

    I too would suggest a few more mags but with that said I would rather be a guy with 3 full mags and 1k of ammo then the guy with 50 mags and only 100 rds (this happens a lot)

    As for when to stop adding more..... well if you still know exactly how much you have then you dont have enough.
  6. nitestocker

    nitestocker woodland washington Well-Known Member

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    just get as much as you can afford
  7. CatCow

    CatCow Portland, OR Active Member

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    I was thinking more along the lines of 2k minimum for a bolt gun, 10k+ for 22LR, and 5k+(up to the point where there is no more room to store more if you get to that point) for autoloaders and shotguns.

    I mean, this is TEOTWAWKI we're talking about here... You gotta think about your descendants 200 years from now using that weapon! To that point, multiple guns of the same model/caliber would be good, as well as a good stockpile of spare parts. Depending on how bad TEOTWAWKI really is, you could be facing anything from fighting off 6 trillion zombies alone(in which case I recommend buying a nuclear warhead or 3 off the black market), to repopulating the planet with some funky inbreds... In which case perhaps you should be stockpiling heavy machinery so you can clear out a new city for yourself and to operate the mines that will be staffed by trained iguanas. And, well, you know iguanas. They can't be trusted. Better up the ammo supply some more...

    OK, back to some slightly less demented reality... And a look at my own stockpile. I certainly need a lot more, but I'm currently at around 2.5k of 9mm(for 3 guns), 5k of 5.45x39 when I don't even have a gun that shoots that yet(AK parts kit waiting to be built still), 2.5k of mosin ammo(I'd like to double that for the initial stockpile and keep a minimum of 3k until it gets insanely expensive, with 6 mosins and a PSL to feed), just under 2k of 7.62x39 for 2 guns(and soon to be a third). My 308, 380 and 45ACP are dangerously low unfortunately, and while I have brass and bullets I just never get around to reloading some 223 and I only have 1.5k of factory ammo, something I would like to get up to a minimum of 5k and for a mild stockpile I would consider 10k to be better(4 rifles to feed from that pile). Sadly I am in no position to increase my stockpile at the moment, but prices have been going up quickly for several years and even if metal prices come down somewhat I don't see the price dropping much if at all.

    Now, the issue of where to store it all is an entirely different matter... That stuff is HEAVY! So far the best I can figure is to put it in ammo cans on higher shelves(where there is less threat of getting flooded if something bad happens) or plastic water-tight boxes down lower under the stairs in the basement.
  8. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    2k rounds of each calibre you've got. Buy that much in reloading components as well.

    My personal goal is 20k rounds of each .cal that I have, but that's a pure pipe-dream. For every box you shoot replace it with two every time and you'll see your stockpile grow faster than you'd think.
  9. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    At least? 1K for every rifle...500 for every pistol.

    Shotgun it should be 500 (pheasant shot) and at least 100 buck/slug combo.
  10. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I think 1k for .223 is not enough. It's a very useful caliber for so many different purposes, I'd want at least 5k for it. It's kind of your do-it-all gun (I know some people will claim that about the .22lr)
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Just another thing to think about is HOW are you going to move 5k of ammo if you are bugging out? How are you going to store it so you can easily move it? How are you doing to keep it cool and dry? If you are bugging out how much space does all your ammo take up and does that leave you short on other supplies? If you do bug out how are you going to hide/get rid of the ammo you cant take with you so it does not fall into the hands of others?
    MissJ and (deleted member) like this.
  12. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's the firearms that we currently possess

    AR-15 .223 cal with iron sights, 3 mags = 2,000 and get a few more mags, extra lower parts kit and bolt. Get a conversion 22 kit and 4 mags for that, can use the 22's when the 223 is gone..
    22LR rifle with iron sights, 2 mags = 5,000 a few xtra mags, extra firing pin and spring.
    .22LR target pistol 3 mags = 1,000 2 more mags and extra firing pin and spring.
    9mm semi-auto pistol 6 mags = 2,000 to start
    12 ga shotgun= 500 shot, 250 slug, 100 bs..
    380 auto pistol (crappy, only has 1 magazine & cannot find more mags) =250 or sell and get one you can get mags for then 500 and 4 mags.
    bb gun/air gun= 2000 use for distraction by shooting into brush behind or next to attackers.

    Our next pruchase will most likely be a .30-06 scoped rifle, or maybe a .308 NATO. = buy the 308 and depending on type depends on amount.

    Buy extra parts and mags soon as all the ammo in the world wont help if the gun goes click.
    MissJ and (deleted member) like this.
  13. moose

    moose northwet coast Well-Known Member

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    20k of 22lr will fit into a 20mm can, 1k of 12 gauge.

    Don't ask me how I know other than remember the first thing I said:

    ETA: I hate tuna. Bacon flavored spam. best. thing. ever.
  14. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    EEERRRR how much shooting to you plan to do? Just hope your plan works out.

    AAAANNNNDDDD can you hit what you shoot at under stress with the target shooting at you?
  15. PDXSparky

    PDXSparky Keizer / Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    An AR with only 3 mags? You need more, many, many more mags for that.
    Get some more mags for the 22LR rifle as well.
  16. nubus

    nubus Guest

    I agree with with the previous post of 1k per tube.
    Now don't misread that, not 1k per caliber.
    Got 3 5.56 rifles, got 3k to feed them.

    IMHO these are good BASELINE numbers.
    You can always add to what you think will be used more.
    Less for pistol, more for 22lr.
  17. skydiver

    skydiver Sandy,OR Well-Known Member

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    Eventually you will have to move for resources/safety/etc.
    How much ammo can you carry?
    How many firearms can you carry?
    What other items may be more important than pallet loads of ammo?
    MissJ and (deleted member) like this.
  18. baada

    baada Surprise, AZ Member

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    man you guys crack me up.

    MissJ: read SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Thoughts on Urban Survival (2005)

    Simplify your arsenal. My suggestion is:

    9mm or .40 S&W pistol with 1k+ rounds. this will be your primary weapon

    .308 SA rifle with 1k+ rounds. add a bolt action later on and up the rounds count another 1k. this will be your hunting and home defense rifle.

    .22LR pistol and SA rifle with 5k rounds. critter killer and back up gun.

    12ga SA or pump with 250 buck/slug combo, 500 bird. the bird is for hunting. the buck and slug... imagine you're a bad guy, and you're the second in line entering a house, and there's a crazy loud explosion and the guy in front of you suddenly doesn't have a chest. its not just a home defense gun, it's also a psychological deterrent. more so than a rifle, usually.
    MissJ and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Get yourself spare spring kits, firing pins, ejectors and extractors...for your main rifle. 3 mags is not enough, get more, many more. Also get yourself a few extra mag springs.
  20. krkruse

    krkruse Salem area Active Member

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    Since I dont really see the SHIF any time soon, I just always buy more ammo than I plan to use each time I go out.. Much easier than spending a ton at once..

    and What ever I got Ill use, Also I like to keep arms that you can reuse the ammo, such as a Bow or a Crossbow.