How dead is 40?

[benchmark]

Who said after you hit 40 it's all downhill?! I just fell in love with it! Bought a CZ Tactical Sport (2018 discontinued) model, Sig Legion P226 and the Chiappa in 40 cal. WOOT! Load that and the 10 and your in!

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Why use 40 when you can use 357 sig?

I carried a Glock 32 for a time...until it got stolen and is sitting in an evidence locker as the rat turds who were in possession of my gun got arrested, charged, and now have to exhaust all their due process before I can get it back per the prosecutor's request. Great carry round and feeds flawlessly due to the bottleneck shape.

 

[dhklaus]

Hay I have trans-caliber handguns too! My G35 is great at swinging both ways.

Got a G23 that's a switch hitter too.

 

[Caveman Jim]

As long as it's on the shelf in bad times, many will have ammo and others will be left with an expensive hammer.

 

[The Heretic]

As long as it's on the shelf in bad times, many will have ammo and others will be left with an expensive hammer.

Any .40 I have can be easily converted to 9mm, some were 9mm to start with and converted to .40

I also have a .357 barrel that I got with a 40 conversion kit, but I don't think I will ever need it.

I have almost as much .40 ammo as I do 9mm ammo - about 2K each. I need more ball ammo to practice with - I will get that when the prices come back down.

If SHTF, the "plan" (Stan) is to use up the .40 ammo first, then switch to 9mm. I hope I never need to use over 4K of pistol ammo - as others have said, a sidearm is something you always have on you to use either to fight your way to your long gun, or as a last ditch defensive weapon. When SHTF, if you use as much pistol ammo as you do rifle ammo, you are doing something wrong, or something has gone terribly wrong.

 

[Oneeyedjack]

It's alive and well. .40 has a proven track record. Absolutely more recoil for it's a high pressure round and normally fires 165 to 180 grain bullets on duty. For those who are comfortable with them they will stick with them. Some just like 9's better. For someone who does not train a lot the 9 may suit them better as it is comfortable to shoot. 9, 40, 45 comes down to the same thing a .22 does, shot placement. Might want to fire few more with the .22, but it will also do the job with shot placement. Not advocating for .22 for self defense, but if it's what you have, it will do the job if you practice shooting objects the size of an orange and you can consistently put them in there. As far as the .40, it will be around along time. All the stuff about .40's being rough on the guns? With proper maintenance they have lasted many years In professional settings all over the country. It comes down to personal preference.

 

[The Heretic]

It's alive and well. .40 has a proven track record. Absolutely more recoil for it's a high pressure round and normally fires 165 to 280 grain bullets on duty. For those who are comfortable with them they will stick with them. Some just like 9's better. For someone who does not train a lot the 9 may suit them better as it is comfortable to shoot. 9, 40, 45 comes down to the same thing a .22 does, shot placement. Might want to fire few more with the .22, but it will also do the job with shot placement. Not advocating for .22 for self defense, but if it's what you have, it will do the job if you practice shooting objects the size of an orange and you can consistently put them in there. As far as the .40, it will be around along time. All the stuff about .40's being rough on the guns? With proper maintenance they have lasted many years In professional settings all over the country. It comes down to personal preference.

Did you mean 180 grain? Typo?

The largest I recall seeing in .40 is 200 grain.

 

[Oneeyedjack]

Did you mean 180 grain? Typo?

The largest I recall seeing in .40 is 200 grain.

Yes sir, my fingers bumble

 

[Ridge Walker]

Our kids shoot 9s. We carry 40s and 357... Only till we're all completely feeble and decrepit, then we'll be right there too.

 

[sobo]

My "not dead yet" .40 treats me just fine... As a plus, it scores higher in USPSA comps, too!

View attachment 06-01-20_Stage6_Sobo.MOV

 

[Steel Head]

I still love my 40.
It is an excellent candidate for mild WST loads like 45 ACP.

 

[10der]

I love my .40 and I was just about always able to find ammo during all the panic buying. verity is the spice of live though.

 

[cooper]

Mine still works , trick is to check pulse 3x week.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Modern bullet design has pretty much leveled the carry caliber field. At this point they're all pretty damn close in effectiveness/penetration if you're aiming at the right spot(s). With all other things being equal, the lesser recoil and additional capacity of 9x19 makes .40 pretty undesirable for anyone who's not a fanboy or a contrarian.

 

[oremike]

lol, "with all other things being equal"
A bigger hole is still a bigger hole.

 

[cookie]

Every shooter needs at least 1 40 S&W that is built on the same platform as their 9mm ,,, just because.

 

[The Heretic]

Modern bullet design has pretty much leveled the carry caliber field. At this point they're all pretty damn close in effectiveness/penetration if you're aiming at the right spot(s). With all other things being equal, the lesser recoil and additional capacity of 9x19 makes .40 pretty undesirable for anyone who's not a fanboy or a contrarian.

Bullet design struggles to make up for the increased momentum of a more massive projectile with better sectional density. Hard to make an expanding 115 gr 9mm projectile break bones/cartilage/etc. and penetrate as deeply as a 180 gr 10 mm projectile at a similar velocity. Gel tests are good for soft tissue, but ribs are not soft, nor are the bones in the arms/etc. Not every shot is frontal, and even frontal shots have a good chance of encountering ribs/etc. Then there is the issue of barriers.

 

[Oneeyedjack]

The .40 is an awesome round. It's a high pressure round and shoots bigger and heavier bullets so naturally it's snappier than the nine. During the civil war studies wereconducted that stated the most effective rounds in combat were of 40 caliber and above with projectiles weighing 180 grains and up. This data was from pistol velocities of current arms. This data remained true in the 1990's. The .40 and larger bullets are tough for many to shoot even with a large amount of training (observed personally through thousands of thousands of rounds of training with hundreds of personnel. Nines with hot hollow point Ammunition work well, but do you do all your training with hot hollow point ammunition? Now, if your going to talk total disruption and going bug out? Most are not going to have lots of the hyper rounds on hand and they dry up soon. The .40 with bigger heavier bullets in any style still holds true to the studies that stood the test of time for over 150 years. In a pinch the .40 is highly effective with any round. Without that magic ammo the 9mm is a weaker round. Go shoot targets with a variety of ammo running 9, .40, and 45. Often the steel will still be standing with the 9, but will plop with and 40 or .45. Bottomline a .Single shot from a 22 can stop a threat with near perfect shot placement. The 9 is effective with shot placement as well as the .40 and .45. Point being that with an array of ammo that is available at any given time the .40 and .45 can And is superior to 9. Again, any ammo will work with proper shot placement and right conditions but some ammo with bigger heavier rounds have advantages across the Board With marginal ammo configurations. The bigger bore guns have more energy across the board of when using All types of ammo. This should get comments roaring, but 150 years of research conducted with human cadavers is still very valid. I Shoot 9's and don't feel under gunned with one in my hand, but I also know that in every situation the .40 and .45 are more powerful no matter what I have them loaded with. No matter what you shoot, learn to shoot proficiently. In those s—t hit the fan moments most folks are going to be half as good as they are on the best day of training. Take it with a grain of salt, have fun, and be safe shooting. Not bashing 9's just comparing across the board and lots of plinking with all calibers mentioned.

 

[The Heretic]

I shoot the same guns with .40 and 9mm - I can switch slides/barrels on my SIGs and I have the same gun models in both chamberings. I also have several 227s in .45 ACP.

I don't notice much diff in the recoil for the .40 against the 9mm. I shoot 115 gr 9mm and 180 gr .40

With the .45, significant difference between it and either .40 or 9mm (I shoot 230 gr at ~900 fps)

Not sure why others feel a significant difference between 9mm and .40? The ballistics say there should be, others say there is, but I don't feel it.

 

[PPCguy]

Here's my tin foil version of the future for 40 cal.
Gun sales people live in the land of New and Improved. Guns don't wear out, So they can only sell New and Improved. When they could convince enough police purchasing agents that the 6 round revolvers were not enough, Along came the Wonder 9's, New and improved!
Then 9mm wasn't enough to handle a dedicated BG. We needed the 10mm! New and Improved!
When it was found that non gun people had a hard time passing the Quals, Along came 40 cal! It held more ammo than a 45 but packed more punch than a 9mm. Again New and Improved!

So cops have been carrying 40 cal for 15 or 20 years now, The Gun sales people need a New Improvement to sell new guns. So they put bullet designers to work on 9mm ammo. So the new improvement is that I can deliver the Incapacitation power of a 40 cal in a 9mm package! New and Improved again. Notice I didn't say Stopping power. This is in a high capacity package that any cop can carry and be trained to shoot well.

Now for the tinfoil part!
Once I have sold all the departments on new 9mm guns and saturated the market, I'm just waiting for the next Miami FBI incident where the 9mm doesn't stop the BG's fast enough. Then Stopping power will be the new buzz word, and I will have improved the 40 cal's bullet selection to maximize Stopping Power! and I will have my next New and Improved!

Every cop shop in the country will again have to convert to the New and Improved 40 cal!

Now you ask Why did they not improve the 40 cal bullets with the 9mm improvements? That would prevent future sales of the New and Improved 40 cal bullets!

Any way thats my best tin foil guess! DR

It is my understanding that all major handgun calibers were improved with the same bullet technology as the 9 MM.