How dead is 40?

[40Garand]

Sell off all your 40 supplies and guns cause the internet fan boys and gun gods say so.

 

[deadeye]

Sell off all your 40 supplies and guns cause the internet fan boys and gun gods say so.

That's gonna big a huge garage sale at my place.

 

[The Heretic]

My .40 handguns also identify as a 9mm, depending on which barrel they are wearing when they get up in the morning.

 

[Helocat]

My .40 handguns also identify as a 9mm, depending on which barrel they are wearing when they get up in the morning.

Hay I have trans-caliber handguns too! My G35 is great at swinging both ways.

 

[ageingstudent]

Hay I have trans-caliber handguns too! My G35 is great at swinging both ways.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[Helocat]

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

I accept and love it either way. Its a Glock so it just does not care. Kind of the Honey Baddger of handguns.

 

[jrd541280]

Dies, powder(plenty of) bullets, primers (standard) not going away til your gun wears out. 9, 40, 45 will dispcatch all preditors with same lethality.

 

[DB is Here]

LOL, Years ago 9MM was out of favor and likened to .380 And 40SW was the pimp round.

.40 is the superior, to say otherwise is azzhatery.

 

[Greshamreloadr]

1911 in 9mm? I guess I'm going to hell too because I WANT ONE!

My father in law must be in hell. He owns two like that.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[cookie]

Dies, powder(plenty of) bullets, primers (standard) not going away til your gun wears out. 9, 40, 45 will dispcatch all preditors with same lethality.

Oh please a 45acp shot through a high end 1911will be more effective with a near miss than a 9MM or 40 S&W with a well placed double tap.

 

[ageingstudent]

Yeah that's a very good video. Watched it more than once.

 

[CLT65]

Thank you for posting that video, very interesting.

I respect Paul Harrell's opinion. He comes at things like this with a logical, common-sense approach.

The argument for the 9mm that he touched on a little, is that some people don't like the increased recoil of the .40S&W. What he didn't address is that real-world statistics do seem to indicate that in most shootings, the 9mm is indeed "good enough". The .40 clearly has an edge, but statistically speaking, is it enough to really matter?

My mind hasn't changed. I still like them both. I do think that the .40S&W would have the edge for a woods gun, but for a woods gun I normally carry something even bigger.

 

[HaveGun]

I stopped by my LGS the other day to get a variety of factory .40 S&W to try in my new 1911. They had been shut down for 4 weeks due to the China flu and had a chance to re-stock everything. They had been overrun prior to shutting down and wiped out of most guns and ammo.

When I went in, they had plenty of 9mm, .45 ACP, 10mm, etc. in a all varieties. But, only two varieties of .40 S&W. Blazer Brass and Blazer Aluminum.

I asked the clerk what was up with the lack of .40 S&W and he said that it was the most popular ammo the last couple of months and they couldn't get any more from their suppliers.

Took a pic...

 

[The Heretic]

Watched a vid the other day of a guy who loads up .40 to 10mm levels.

I believe the brass for .40 is the same as 10mm, just shorter, so it can probably withstand the pressure as long as it is a fully supported chamber, but the pressure would be higher than 10mm due to the reduced case space. He was doing this in a Glock with a Lone Wolf barrel with fully supported chamber - so I guess it would be ok. In a classic SIG (P22x) with an alloy frame, it would probably beat the frame though as all of SIGs 10mm guns are steel framed.

If a person wants 10mm ballistics, a person can just buy a 10mm gun instead of a .40 gun, especially if that person liked Glocks.

I like my .40 guns because they push a 180 gr load at 1K fps, which is just slightly slower than the .45 ACP does with 185 gr (not counting hot loads like Double Tap and Underwood - and even then, using the +P loads from those manufacturers you get near the same velocities) - and the recoil seems less (I need to get some 185 gr .45 ACP and try it. I haven't tried any 200 gr loads in the .40 as those usually are +P and from the speciality manufacturers, but I think I will get some to carry in the woods (bear loads).

The 180gr loads at 1K fps seems like a good compromise, and would penetrate bones and muscle better as they have more mass. There is velocity and energy, but there is also momentum, and IMO that is important too - especially when the projectile encounters bones and deep tissue. For penetration there is also sectional density - a smaller diameter projectile will penetrate further/easier/better than a larger diameter projectile of the same mass.

Recoil is an issue also - to get back on target faster. I have noticed little recoil and muzzle flip difference between .40 180gr loads and 9mm 115 gr. loads, but a significant difference between .40 180gr and .45 ACP 230gr loads - I am definitely slower with the latter.

 

[03A3Sporter]

I don't think it's dead. But it's not gonna win any popularity contests either.

Unless you are shooting USPSA , then its the goto caliber these days because it makes major power with less recoil than a 45ACP , 9x25 Dillon, 9x23 Winchester, 10mm etc.

Having said that I always viewed the 40 short and weak as the answer to a question that no one had ask. If you have ever read up on the history of the 40 S&W its actually a very interesting read. The Cliffs note version is it came about because the accountants with guns at the FBI couldn't handle the 10mm .

It is not a bad caliber it just doesn't do anything better than its 10mm big brother or the 45 ACP and its not as cheap to shoot as a 9mm.

From that perspective its the worst possible attributes of both worlds. Having said that NO I do not want shot with one either.

 

[JRuby]

I write this with the caveat - don't try this - I screwed up. I got lucky.

Several years ago I was reloading out of the yearly Hodgons manual for my S&W 40CS. Went out shooting at Memalose with my pistol and reloaded ammunition, I though the pistol had a bit more recoil than I had expected but it was the first time I had shot it. My next door neighbor shot it and agreed it had pretty substantial recoil. We finished shooting for the day. without issue. I had shot somewhere less than 100 rounds through the CS40 that day, The next time I went to reload some more ammunition I had found that I had misread the manual / magazine and loaded 10mm loads into the 40S&W. I believe I had used HS6 for the rounds. Once I had identified this - it really concerned me - I have since been a lot more careful. I tore down the remaining rounds.

The question I have is how I did not blow up the pistol. I still shoot that pistol today and have had no issues with it at all, Maybe the powder wasn't fully burnt in the short barrel - I have no idea.
Like I said don't try this, please.

 

[The Heretic]

The question I have is how I did not blow up the pistol. I still shoot that pistol today and have had no issues with it at all, Maybe the powder wasn't fully burnt in the short barrel - I have no idea.
Like I said don't try this, please.

While I don't recommend it, the .40 S&W case is basically a short 10mm case, and theoretically at least, should be just as strong. So you were loading it up to +P or +P+ pressures, maybe more? If that gun has a fully supported chamber, then maybe the chances of it "blowing up" were low?

As I said in my previous post, if a person wants 10mm ballistics, get a 10mm gun - the guy I mentioned who advocates loading .40 S&W to 10mm levels probably won't have problems, but it seems stupid to me.

The .40 isn't dead, but loading it up to 10mm levels won't prove that.

And yes, I know you didn't do that on purpose - just saying for anyone else who thinks this would be a good idea.

 

[tac]

My former bit of the Army was more or less self sufficient with regard to its choice of weapons, and a lot of us were very inclined towards the fotty. I was within three weeks of getting my very own personally-paid-for pistol when the hammer came down here, but the in the end the PTB went for the P226 [for men] and P228, for ladies] in 9mmP.

 

[MDphotographer]

I write this with the caveat - don't try this - I screwed up. I got lucky.

Several years ago I was reloading out of the yearly Hodgons manual for my S&W 40CS. Went out shooting at Memalose with my pistol and reloaded ammunition, I though the pistol had a bit more recoil than I had expected but it was the first time I had shot it. My next door neighbor shot it and agreed it had pretty substantial recoil. We finished shooting for the day. without issue. I had shot somewhere less than 100 rounds through the CS40 that day, The next time I went to reload some more ammunition I had found that I had misread the manual / magazine and loaded 10mm loads into the 40S&W. I believe I had used HS6 for the rounds. Once I had identified this - it really concerned me - I have since been a lot more careful. I tore down the remaining rounds.

The question I have is how I did not blow up the pistol. I still shoot that pistol today and have had no issues with it at all, Maybe the powder wasn't fully burnt in the short barrel - I have no idea.
Like I said don't try this, please.

I did this!!

2008 I bought a CZ-75B in .40 found some data on the internet. I had Blue Dot and Power Pistol powder. The load data I found were for USPSA Comp loads Something like 12g of BD and 10.5g PP when I went to the range and shot them I was surprised by the recoil. I ended up shoot a total of about 300 rounds out of my CZ with these loads before I found out my mistake. I tore them down naturally and downloaded them.