Washington How are gun owners preparing for I-1639?

[11Charlie]

It may, but it will inconvenience ALL most likely.
All with enhanced, please step to the front of the line please.
I'm in.

OK so what does the enhanced do for us?

 

[2A2Dend]

Google is your friend.
Easily found and better explained.

 

[Alexx1401]

The biggest problem I see is IF the 'subjective' part remains, and a customer knows this, then I can see a customer getting ugly, demanding the gun etc.
While I still agree with most of the FFLs NOT giving it to the customer they may have to endure some grief.
With regard to CPLs loosing the advantage of skipping the wait, well 'ignorance of the law' etc. will be the savior of the FFLs but for the same reasons the FFLs will still be the 'sounding board'.

Yep, assuming it's still up in the air people will have to make that choice. Ask the dealer how they handle it if the return is delayed. We are seeing the same thing here in WA after the law went in with BGC. Some said the FFL was taking the gun, so seller got paid. Then if buyer was delayed FFL held gun until buyer was cleared. Now the last one I used to do it here did not offer that. Buyer for me last time got a delayed. shop just told us both they would call the buyer when he got a proceed and we could come back. They did not offer to take the gun so I could get paid. No way of telling what they are going to do now. Again people will just have to ask up front. Sure as time goes on many will share the experience here on different dealers and how they work it. Bottom line is a LOT of gun owners are going to be angry at FFL's over any delays when the FFL has nothing to do with any of this. They just have to protect themselves and follow the law. Gun owners allowed this all to happen by sitting on their hands till it was too late.

 

[Alexx1401]

OK so what does the enhanced do for us?

Originally it was sold as the easy pass to go to Canada. You could just show it and go. Then when this Real ID Act came along Feds kept saying WA was one of a couple states that were not compliant. That if they did not become compliant anyone with a WA ID would not be able to get on an airliner. That they would need a passport or and enhanced. WA has continued to drag it's feet, Feds kept giving us more time. We shall see who gives up first here.

 

[11Charlie]

Originally it was sold as the easy pass to go to Canada. You could just show it and go. Then when this Real ID Act came along Feds kept saying WA was one of a couple states that were not compliant. That if they did not become compliant anyone with a WA ID would not be able to get on an airliner. That they would need a passport or and enhanced. WA has continued to drag it's feet, Feds kept giving us more time. We shall see who gives up first here.

Which I knew but how does that effect the new law coming into effect?

 

[Alexx1401]

Which I knew but how does that effect the new law coming into effect?

Oh, sorry, this was just thread drift as these do. AFAIK the enhanced has nothing to do with buying guns after the new laws go in. Somewhere in the thread the enhanced license came up as many of these threads do.

 

[RVTECH]

Just a guess but I'll bet the illegal sale of guns FTF between people in WA is rampant!

 

[Alexx1401]

Just a guess but I'll bet the illegal sale of guns FTF between people in WA is rampant!

Some are claiming they do this and I have no doubt some will. I know I would not and never will. If I end up with something I just want rid of it will go to a dealer. Either trade or just sell. Last time I had a gun up for sale I did get a few trying to test if I would just sell. Even saying they had a CPL to show me they were good. I declined. The amount of profit to be made doing this way is no way worth the cost of getting hammered. No doubt a lot will do so and nothing will happen. Some will end up in a bind that they will wish they had not brought on themselves over that little bit of money.

 

[RVTECH]

I hear of it taking place in Oregon as well - including talk of people now trusting people they just met!
Just heresay though and nothing I know of personally or would ever do!

 

[11Charlie]

Oh, sorry, this was just thread drift as these do. AFAIK the enhanced has nothing to do with buying guns after the new laws go in. Somewhere in the thread the enhanced license came up as many of these threads do.

OK now the whole dang thing makes more sense!!

 

[nwslopoke]

Some are claiming they do this and I have no doubt some will. I know I would not and never will. If I end up with something I just want rid of it will go to a dealer. Either trade or just sell. Last time I had a gun up for sale I did get a few trying to test if I would just sell. Even saying they had a CPL to show me they were good. I declined. The amount of profit to be made doing this way is no way worth the cost of getting hammered. No doubt a lot will do so and nothing will happen. Some will end up in a bind that they will wish they had not brought on themselves over that little bit of money.

This if course is the prime example of where law abiding citizens are, the least of America's worries. That is the real loophole, where the government breaks the law.

So the good guy follows the law, loses money and has to compromise while the 17 yo gang banger, ex-con, etc, will continue to do whatever it is they like to do.

Meanwhile in Texas, an armed idiot takes on a secure building that is not a gun free zone and gets shot. That's amazing.

 

[RVTECH]

So the good guy follows the law,

Unfortunately in this case the Government is causing 'good guys' to choose to not follow the law.
If the 'word on the street' is accurate illegal gun sales between 'good guys' probably equal, or exceed legal sales.

 

[Talos32]

The biggest problem I see is IF the 'subjective' part remains, and a customer knows this, then I can see a customer getting ugly, demanding the gun etc.
While I still agree with most of the FFLs NOT giving it to the customer they may have to endure some grief.
With regard to CPLs loosing the advantage of skipping the wait, well 'ignorance of the law' etc. will be the savior of the FFLs but for the same reasons the FFLs will still be the 'sounding board'.

When this came up before, one of the FFLs posted an ATF fact sheet that said even after a NICS "proceed" it was still at the dealer's discretion whether or not to complete the transfer. In essence, they are never compelled to do it.

That being the case, I would guess that any dealer that sold a gun that was later used in a crime is at risk of being sued, regardless whether or not they sold on the basis of a "proceed" or used the discretion allowed after the waiting period expires.

I know the idea is that they feel they open themselves up to more liability if they choose to go forward without that affirmative "yes" from the state, but I'm sure that's a distinction that won't be drawn by a litigant looking for revenge/money. If they're looking to sue the company that made the gun, you can bet they're looking to sue everyone in the retail chain related to selling it.

Without seeing case law and precedent, I don't think we can say for sure that it matters in a civil defense as long as the sale was conducted in accordance with the law.