Help me help a new gun guy

[Member 52301]

I have a good friend who lives in Portland. He's never been into firearms, but with the current situation he's now thinking it might be time to learn about 'em and perhaps acquire one for home and personal protection.

I advised him to seek an "Intro to firearms" class at a local indoor range where he will be instructed on safety, basic operations, and where he can possibly rent different models to see what works for him.

I live in Spokane, and I know where to go for this training here, but where's a good place for this in Portland?

Best wishes to your friend!

Old Lady Cate

 

[Mikej]

PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGY ... I CAN BE A CLONE AT TIMES... I THOUGHT IT WAS YOUR DAD TYPING... HE DOES HAVE THE BIGGEST SMILE GOING ON...
I KNOW YOU MISS HIM... MY DADS 89 AND I MISS HIM AND HE'S ONLY IN ARKANSAS... ONCE AGAIN I APOLOGIZE... BOB
SEMPER FI

No worries man. I'll admit it's somewhat questionable, so I expect to get questioned on it form time to time.

 

[Member 38805]

What is this alleged crap you speak of? Care to point it out? I for one I'm not much into people telling me what I "should" do.

I wont go back through this thread and post quotes from all those who ostracized the OP in various ways. You can read the posts as easy as I can, and if you can't see the negative comments, then I doubt my quoting them will help. As for telling you what YOU should do; I didn't. I simply pointed out that negative replies don't help, and if that applies to you, then you can do whatever suits you.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

So a guy comes here wanting to help a friend who feels he's ready to make his first firearms purchase, and gets all sorts of crap from some people?
We should be doing everything possible to encourage this new person into firearms ownership, and not denigrating him for taking so long to make this decision. We should also be trying to ensure he gets the best advice, and assistance possible. If you don't have anything positive to add to it, why not just keep silent?

I wasn't offended at all. I've been around here long enough to know that people ask direct questions and I'm always willing to explain and engage. It's a discussion forum. Expecting everyone to agree with me or not offer their thoughts is what you get on Facebook. That's why I'm HERE, not there.

Don't worry about me. I'm a big boy and can take the heat (as long as it's a dry heat).

 

[fishpoem]

By almost all metrics, the protesting and rioting occurring now is of a lesser volatility then during the civil rights years...So, why now?

Based upon my own direct observations of violent protests during the Vietnam War, I would suggest that this time is indeed different.

1. Provocateurs are now better organized, have better tactics, and are far better funded. Antifaschistische Aktion was established in Germany in 1932. They never went away, know how to fight, are global, and are the ideological parent of Antifa in the United States. Their central goal is to destroy capitalism and replace it with a communist dictatorship. They routinely use violence toward that end.
2. A major US political party has relentlessly sought to unseat a President. Social disorder supports that endeavor, so they support and excuse it rather than suppress it. Rather than oppose calls to defund or eliminate police, they consider such calls reasonable. This gives the general public a sense of being naked to attack.
3. The main stream media, which once embraced actual journalism, is now given over largely to propaganda. On the one hand, the goal is to help unseat a President. On the other hand, the goal is to keep the public in a state of fear and emotional turmoil.
4. The middle class is less robust than it was during the Vietnam era. Financial inequality is now exactly equal to that in 1929. Massive job loss due to Covid amplifies the impact. Being unemployed makes people extremely edgy, especially if they are supporting a family.
5. America has been in a constant state of war since 9/11 without seeing any clear resolution. The endless footage of death and destruction in the Middle East inevitably instills an unspoken, unconscious question: is it going to happen here?

Given the evident impaired reluctance of the government to properly protect its citizenry and their property, elevated gun sales is a perfectly logical response.

 

[Mikej]

Based upon my own direct observations of violent protests during the Vietnam War, I would suggest that this time is indeed different.

1. Provocateurs are now better organized, have better tactics, and are far better funded. Antifaschistische Aktion was established in Germany in 1932. They never went away, know how to fight, are global, and are the ideological parent of Antifa in the United States. Their central goal is to destroy capitalism and replace it with a communist dictatorship. They routinely use violence toward that end.
2. A major US political party has relentlessly sought to unseat a President. Social disorder supports that endeavor, so they support and excuse it rather than suppress it. Rather than oppose calls to defund or eliminate police, they consider such calls reasonable. This gives the general public a sense of being naked to attack.
3. The main stream media, which once embraced actual journalism, is now given over largely to propaganda. On the one hand, the goal is to help unseat a President. On the other hand, the goal is to keep the public in a state of fear and emotional turmoil.
4. The middle class is less robust than it was during the Vietnam era. Financial inequality is now exactly equal to that in 1929. Massive job loss due to Covid amplifies the impact. Being unemployed makes people extremely edgy, especially if they are supporting a family.
5. America has been in a constant state of war since 9/11 without seeing any clear resolution. The endless footage of death and destruction in the Middle East inevitably instills an unspoken, unconscious question: is it going to happen here?

Given the evident impaired reluctance of the government to properly protect its citizenry and their property, elevated gun sales is a perfectly logical response.

Well, You sure seem to have a good handle on the crap storm today, don't you?

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

So, he experienced some tense social upheavals during his childhood with the civil rights era, he made it through the end of the Cold War, watched as L.A. burned during the riots...yet never felt the need to own or become proficient with a gun.

By almost all metrics, the protesting and rioting occurring now is of a lesser volatility then during the civil rights years...So, why now?

Don't take my question the wrong way - I'm glad that he's learning...I'm just very curious to understand the psychology behind this decision...because it makes little sense to me why a man who has experienced so much without feeling the need to have a gun now suddenly does.

I have friends that are/were gun haters now they are asking where the best place to buy a gun is . I believe it is the ole you can lead a horse to water thing and well now people are thirsty !

 

[leadcounsel]

So a guy comes here wanting to help a friend who feels he's ready to make his first firearms purchase, and gets all sorts of crap from some people?
We should be doing everything possible to encourage this new person into firearms ownership, and not denigrating him for taking so long to make this decision. We should also be trying to ensure he gets the best advice, and assistance possible. If you don't have anything positive to add to it, why not just keep silent?

I'm legitimately torn on this topic.

On the one hand, we should welcome all comers. Forgive and forget, and all that.

On the other hand, do we really want to help anti-gunners? Maybe this guy is or isn't, I wouldn't know .

I've helped scores of young gun neutral or anti-gun people learn and shoot guns and it makes an impact on their still formative world views. We're talking naive youth, young adults, early 20s into 30s. Still young and figuring the world out, breaking from the brainwashing of education systems...

But a 65 year old, non-hunter, non-gun owner, living in Portland who probably has voted his entire life on suppressing gun rights and voting against gun rights issues and our causes and politicians? The causes he probably supports likely greatly created the problems we face. Presumably never served in armed forces, since he has no firearm familiarity. Probably 5 decades of voting for all the anti-gun causes and laws that created the mess... That would weigh pretty heavily in my willingness to help. If it were me, before I lifted a finger to help, I'd want to know about his views.

See, in my mind, if we're in a survival compound and some folks who created the problems and failed to prep show up wanting some water, food, medical supplies, etc., they can just turn themselves right back around skedaddle.

Then again, if someone elderly I knew and cared about wanted some gun advice, I'd probably give it....

 

[Vendor Hidden]

I'm legitimately torn on this topic.

On the one hand, we should welcome all comers. Forgive and forget, and all that.

On the other hand, do we really want to help anti-gunners? Maybe this guy is or isn't, I wouldn't know .

I've helped scores of young gun neutral or anti-gun people learn and shoot guns and it makes an impact on their still formative world views. We're talking naive youth, young adults, early 20s into 30s. Still young and figuring the world out, breaking from the brainwashing of education systems...

But a 65 year old, non-hunter, non-gun owner, living in Portland who probably has voted his entire life on suppressing gun rights and voting against gun rights issues and our causes and politicians? The causes he probably supports likely greatly created the problems we face. Presumably never served in armed forces, since he has no firearm familiarity. Probably 5 decades of voting for all the anti-gun causes and laws that created the mess... That would weigh pretty heavily in my willingness to help. If it were me, before I lifted a finger to help, I'd want to know about his views.

See, in my mind, if we're in a survival compound and some folks who created the problems and failed to prep show up wanting some water, food, medical supplies, etc., they can just turn themselves right back around skedaddle.

Then again, if someone elderly I knew and cared about wanted some gun advice, I'd probably give it....

Lotsa idle conjecture in that there post.

Here's another way to look at it:
• The 2nd Amendment is under attack
• As 2nd Amendment supporters, it seems we are in the minority
• We need to rebuild support for and defend the 2A
• As such we need to promote rational reasons for supporting the 2A and look for opportunities to evangelize
• We also need to promote safety and responsibility for those who choose to arm themselves
• A guy wants to take advantage of his guaranteed 2nd Amendment rights and seeks help
• Regardless of his politics or past history (of which we assuredly know VERY LITTLE), we might want to seize the opportunity to welcome him to the fold and ensure he learns safe and responsible ownership values, because in the end, that helps us all.
• While we may one day be in a survival mode, we aren't there quite yet, so we might want to cut him a little slack and help him because eventually we WILL need all the help we can get.

That seems a reasonable scenario to me. YMMV.

 

[leadcounsel]

Lotsa idle conjecture in that there post.

Here's another way to look at it:
• The 2nd Amendment is under attack
• As 2nd Amendment supporters, it seems we are in the minority
• We need to rebuild support for and defend the 2A
• As such we need to promote rational reasons for supporting the 2A and look for opportunities to evangelize
• We also need to promote safety and responsibility for those who choose to arm themselves
• A guy wants to take advantage of his guaranteed 2nd Amendment rights and seeks help
• Regardless of his politics or past history (of which we assuredly know VERY LITTLE), we might want to seize the opportunity to welcome him to the fold and ensure he learns safe and responsible ownership values, because in the end, that helps us all.
• While we may one day be in a survival mode, we aren't there quite yet, so we might want to cut him a little slack and help him because eventually we WILL need all the help we can get.

That seems a reasonable scenario to me. YMMV.

I can make up a backstory too.
* The 2A has been damaged by people who are in their retirement years who spent 5 decades actively hurting the 2A, voting for everything and everyone we 2A supporters detest. And a guy lives 65 years and never hunts, serves his nation or state in armed defense... (IF he had, he wouldn't need elementary help.) Is there a guarantee that a guy who buys a revolver becomes a magical convert to the 2A? Nope. And is someone who has been presumably (history is a tell) anti-gun going to actually help our cause; the jury is out. Verdict unclear. He might not help one bit. Or he could harm our cause.

Just because some old guy now wants a gun, there's a lot of unknowns and to presume he's going to suddenly be some big pro-2A champion because he buys a Smith Shield is naive at best. Maybe he harms our cause? How so? Okay, I know a lot of "FUDD" gun owners who use owning a gun as a justification to tell others "I own a gun, but nobody needs a machine gun...". So his "gun owners" status elevates his credibility while giving some authority to attack the 2A. We've all seen it.

That's just as reasonable, and I say 65 years of "leopards don't change their spots" supports my view more than other conjecture.

 

[JRuby]

I thought law abiding citizens in this country had the right of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Olderguy]

Sounds like a lot a judging without knowing the facts. All we really know is an older person wants to have a gun. There are a ton possible scenario but there are a number of people that now realize they may need some protection. I previously taught concealed carry classes and there were many that were new to firearms for a variety of reasons, all seemed like very reasonable people that were willing to learn. I applaud the original writer for attempting to find competent training for the friend. One of the worst case scenarios is for the person to purchase a gun without ANY firearm handling, storage or maintenance knowledge.

 

[leadcounsel]

Sounds like a lot a judging without knowing the facts. All we really know is an older person wants to have a gun. There are a ton possible scenario but there are a number of people that now realize they may need some protection. I previously taught concealed carry classes and there were many that were new to firearms for a variety of reasons, all seemed like very reasonable people that were willing to learn. I applaud the original writer for attempting to find competent training for the friend. One of the worst case scenarios is for the person to purchase a gun without ANY firearm handling, storage or maintenance knowledge.

Fair points, and it's wonderful he's coming around to wanting a gun. Would be VERY interesting to hear the actual back story, voting record, why the sudden change of heart, etc.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Fair points, and it's wonderful he's coming around to wanting a gun. Would be VERY interesting to hear the actual back story, voting record, why the sudden change of heart, etc.

Okay. Next time we talk I'll tell him to fill out an application and provide references.

I get it. You don't want to help him. Awesome. You made that (and other things) very clear. Free country and all that.

But this conversation between us has become stupid. I try to avoid stupid.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Perhaps, new to guns at 65 will offer up whether he's simply never been interested in guns until now.

I''m reminded of tv guy Greg Gutfeld, (who I really like) was never into guns, but pro-gun, took the initiative last week to buy a tactical shotgun for home defense after his neigborhood was trashed by so-called protestors and was greatly inspired to get a gun...or yes, the new to guns guy has been avidly anti-gun, but has seen 'the light'.

If he's been an anti-gun man, then confesses it, I'll suggest his penance and absolution: Genuflect in the direction of his local gun store, say 3 Hail AR's, 3 Hail Semi-Autos and an admonishment to go and sin no more.

 

[Member 38805]

At what age is it appropriate to begin an interest in guns? And at what age do we decide the person is too old to be legitimately interested? My bet is there are far more gun owners who only own one gun than there are of us who own multiple guns. And those owning only one gun have that mindset because the one gun is for self defense.
A lifetime of no interest in firearms doesn't always mean the person is anti gun. It is indeed strange to me and most gun owners who grew up loving guns, and wanting to own as many as we could afford. But considering there are numerous new gun owners every time the environment we live in gets crazy, it's no surprise to me when someone who just didn't have an interest before, is suddenly wanting to own a self defense firearm. It's not like the same person at 65 suddenly wanting to take up hunting. That would be much more of a surprise to me than feeling insecure today, and wanting to defend themselves, and their loved ones.
I know guys who only hunted, and owned hunting rifles. But have gone out and purchased their first handgun in the last 6 months, and did so because of the way our world is changing. I don't see much difference between the person who wants to own his first handgun and only hunted before, and the person who wanted his first handgun and never owned any gun before.

 

[Olderguy]

At what age is it appropriate to begin an interest in guns? And at what age do we decide the person is too old to be legitimately interested? My bet is there are far more gun owners who only own one gun than there are of us who own multiple guns. And those owning only one gun have that mindset because the one gun is for self defense.
A lifetime of no interest in firearms doesn't always mean the person is anti gun. It is indeed strange to me and most gun owners who grew up loving guns, and wanting to own as many as we could afford. But considering there are numerous new gun owners every time the environment we live in gets crazy, it's no surprise to me when someone who just didn't have an interest before, is suddenly wanting to own a self defense firearm. It's not like the same person at 65 suddenly wanting to take up hunting. That would be much more of a surprise to me than feeling insecure today, and wanting to defend themselves, and their loved ones.
I know guys who only hunted, and owned hunting rifles. But have gone out and purchased their first handgun in the last 6 months, and did so because of the way our world is changing. I don't see much difference between the person who wants to own his first handgun and only hunted before, and the person who wanted his first handgun and never owned any gun before.

Excellent analogy.

 

[tac]

George Washington's statue in Portland has just been pulled down and destroyed.

'Make READY!!! Mark your man and take your aim!

On MY command....................................................................'

 

[leadcounsel]

Help the old fella out. I'm not meaning to impugn him or anyone desiring to help. I know some older folks who don't have guns who, if they came to me, I would help. And I have helped many in similar situations. It's just my vocalizing a bewilderment in lack of paying attention to the state of affairs brewing for DECADES, and probably casting votes in favor of a lot of failed feel good policies. I just hope and pray him and TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans are pulling their collect heads out of the sand and this wake up is sufficient to get them voting intelligently and giving to pro-2A causes. I just wonder where their heads were during the last 40 years of civil unrest and atrocious trampling of civil rights and the 2A... decades of failed policies, empirical evidence, erosion of rights, etc... slow learners I suppose. I guess when the city is on fire you don't get a fire extinguisher, but when your neighborhood is on fire it's high time to pay attention!

Upon reflection, I yield that the consensus is right, we do need to bring these folks to our shores one at a time if needed.

I caution that the education MUST be more than the 4 rules of gun safety, and this is how you load and aim... To be of broader help to the 2A, versus just a revolver that sits in a drawer, this education MUST encompass the WHY we are in a sad state and WHY the 2A is important. EDUCATION they really do need is a more broad understanding of the 2A and reasons why these leftist policies have failed and why the nation is being ripped apart. It needs to go into the power grabs, the hypocrisy, the criminalizing of average American gun owners thru oppressive rules and taxation, and useless background checks, hypocritical application of laws (we've all seen the blatant gun violations in the CHAZ and nobody has been arrested...), ATF abuses with their arbitrary rulings, explanation of the stupid 922 laws, and so forth.

 

[fishpoem]

George Washington's statue in Portland has just been pulled down and destroyed.

'Make READY!!! Mark your man and take your aim!

On MY command....................................................................'

What we're watching unfold is an obscene three-way between a Machiavellian political party, sophisticated communist tacticians, and Twitter-hypnotized adolescents who will do anything to get Likes from peers. Adult authority figures whose nominal duty is to stop bad behavior and protect society are standing on the sidelines doing nothing. The closest historical analogy is the Hitler's Anschluss Österreichs and the long-term outcome will be similar. Global anti-capitalist violence is far better organized and far more serious than most people realize.