Had a Double With My Revolver

[The Heretic]

My 460V is plenty enough for me, but recoil is not as bad as my 329 PD in .44 mag.

 

[kmk1012]

Does Smith and Wesson even sell the 500 without a muzzle brake anymore? Mine is an early model, like the first year and only has a comp on it. I'd think a good brake would greatly reduce the chance of this.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

My 460V is plenty enough for me, but recoil is not as bad as my 329 PD in .44 mag.

Anyone who owns a 329 PD is a glutton for punishment!

A coworker had one for camping, and he described it as "carried often, shot little".

 

[SUPER X]

That's funny, because we have a crazy guy here that likes to load 600 & 700 grain projectiles in his!

@FordPrefect, do you happen to have any good videos you can share with us?

A single action version of that revolver would be a good idea.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Does Smith and Wesson even sell the 500 without a muzzle brake anymore? Mine is an early model, like the first year and only has a comp on it. I'd think a good brake would greatly reduce the chance of this.

The brake won't reduce the chance of firing a second shot in my opinion, as you'll still have rearward recoil, but it might reduce the chance of it rotating far enough to shoot over the berm or possibly shoot yourself.

 

[FordPrefect]

That's funny, because we have a crazy guy here that likes to load 600 & 700 grain projectiles in his!

@FordPrefect, do you happen to have any good videos you can share with us?

There are a couple of videos on my YouTube Channel.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

There are a couple of videos on my YouTube Channel.

Awesome, thanks!

Have you ever had anyone inadvertently double fire your .500?

 

[FordPrefect]

Awesome, thanks!

Have you ever had anyone inadvertently double fire your .500?

I had that happen to somebody who fired it. Fortunately, I only loaded one round in the gun and the "second" shot only fired on an empty cylinder.

The "double fire" tends to come from not pulling and holding onto the trigger tightly.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

The "double fire" tends to come from not pulling and holding onto the trigger tightly.

That was my theory. Poor follow through lets the trigger reset during recoil, which is then followed by a recoil-induced death grip.

 

[kmk1012]

That was my theory. Poor follow through lets the trigger reset during recoil, which is then followed by a recoil-induced death grip.

That sounds and looked exactly like what happened. The first google search while still there showed different theories.

 

[FordPrefect]

That was my theory. Poor follow through lets the trigger reset during recoil, which is then followed by a recoil-induced death grip.

One thing I forgot to add was that it typically happens to people who have never before fired a large caliber hand cannon. It's one of the reasons that I only put one round in it when somebody new fires it.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

@kmk1012

I stand corrected, and I owe you an apology regarding hammer bounce. You were correct, this does appear to be a real and rather common phenomenon, but generally harmless.

From my brief research, it sounds like most revolvers bounce back a little, which makes sense given that the primer or entire cartridge would recoil rearward with enough force to push the hammer back some. One person mentioned seeing what appeared to be a second strike on an already fired primer, but I'm still skeptical that it would have enough force to set off a fresh primer with just a bounce. Additionally, with the trigger held firmly rearward, the cylinder stop should prevent the cylinder from rotating, leaving the hammer to fall again on a dead primer if it did bounce.

However, I did read one interesting anecdotal account that with S&W's design, recoil can cause the cylinder stop to stay forward, occasionally allowing the cylinder to rotate backwards under recoil! It sounds like the Model 29 occasionally had this problem, and could rotate back far enough to lock on the previous cylinder, making your next trigger pull fall on the cartridge you had just previously fired. I'm very glad I read this, as it finally explains something that has baffled me for years, as I had this happen once on a .357 Magnum. I had no clue how it happened until now.

Even with the possibility of the .500 S&W cylinder rotating backwards, I still doubt that the hammer would have enough inertia from a bounce to set off a primer, but it's possible.

My new theory is even simpler. It's a combination of hammer bounce (without reverse rotation) combined with my previous recoil theory.

If the gun recoils enough to reset the trigger as I surmise, having the hammer partially bounce back at the same time just makes the double action trigger pull that much easier.

Here's the link to the comment I found, so you can read it for yourself:
Hammer bounce

 

[American123]

I'll be the one to say it. That gun is stupid. Anything with that level of recoil should be shot with a stock attached and shouldered.

I also don't believe the hammer knock back issue one bit, at least not for the majority of these cases, the recoil is causing the shooting to grip on for dear life and in that micro moment, the shooter can't even discern they they pulled the trigger again, putting one into the ceiling. This happens with smaller calibers also with people who are shooting bigger guns than they are prepared for. Worked in a gun range for 6 months, saw it with .357 and .44

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

That sounds and looked exactly like what happened. The first google search while still there showed different theories.

I now think it's a combination of the two, as hammer bounce would just make the second double action pull that much easier.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I'll be the one to say it. That gun is stupid. Anything with that level of recoil should be shot with a stock attached and shouldered.

I also don't believe the hammer knock back issue one bit, at least not for the majority of these cases, the recoil is causing the shooting to grip on for dear life and in that micro moment, the shooter can't even discern they they pulled the trigger again, putting one into the ceiling. This happens with smaller calibers also with people who are shooting bigger guns than they are prepared for. Worked in a gun range for 6 months, saw it with .357 and .44

It's funny, I never have this problem with my .22 revolvers...

 

[tac]

Isn't it amazing a revolver can cycle that fast?

It worries me considerably that the guy is yacking so much whilst loosely holding a live firearm, looking around and gassing instead of concentrating on what he SHOULD be doing. Klutzes with handguns worry me, even at a distance.

 

[tac]

That's funny, because we have a crazy guy here that likes to load 600 & 700 grain projectiles in his!

@FordPrefect, do you happen to have any good videos you can share with us?

I'm really REALLY interested to see what a 700gr .50 revolver bullet looks like that ISN'T like the one shot in a Ma Deuce.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I'm really REALLY interested to see what a 700gr .50 revolver bullet looks like that ISN'T like the one shot in a Ma Deuce.

It's funny, they're not even shaped like bullets, but more like wooden barrels!

 

[tac]

And now, I want to see you shoot it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The brake won't reduce the chance of firing a second shot in my opinion, as you'll still have rearward recoil, but it might reduce the chance of it rotating far enough to shoot over the berm or possibly shoot yourself.

Is this why a properly designed brake on a 7lb 338 Lapua magnum will kick less than a 10lb one without? lol