guns and mental health survey, Walk The Talk America

[Stomper]

Walk The Talk America (WTTA) is a pro gun org thats attempting to bridge the gap between gun ownership and mental health issues. They conducted [an informal] study this year and the results are in. I'm still reading the results, but it seems like most gun owners make efforts to secure their guns from unauthorized access regardless of safe storage laws. And gun owners seem to be on the fence about getting mental healthcare.

I'm curious what gun owners here on this forum feel about getting mental health care as a gun owner?

Walk the Talk America’s 2023 Gun Owners Survey Results are in

bearingarms.com

I'm not crazy, my mom had me tested.

 

[Koda]

Without this nothing else will make that much difference

Ive thought of this and uncertain... on one side mental health issues are mental health issues and need to be addressed as such. But on the other side the stigma of being a "nutjob" could be done away with.
Now would be a good time for definitions: We all have struggles in life, but some people are more capable at working them out than others. At what point does a normal typical life issue become a mental health issue?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

At what point does a normal typical life issue become a mental health issue?

Good question....

Getting angry at someone and thinking ...
I'd like to kill that SOB....just by itself does not make one a homicidal manic..killer or what have you.
However...stating the above aloud , in your "outside voice"....or mentioning that thought to someone , can lead you to trouble.

Just who gets to decide what is an issue...and by what criteria....?
And....can they be trusted to not use their own fears , bias , agenda , etc...against someone....?

As for me...a mental health issue ....becomes an actual issue when :
It causes you or someone else harm...
It becomes so pervasive in your life that , that is all you can focus on....or prevents you from living your life as you wish.
Andy

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Now would be a good time for definitions: At what point does a normal typical life issue become a mental health issue?

JMHO but I if we trulley distigmitise mental health issues there is no line, just degrees of treatment and care required. Otherwise we run into the same issue were someone on the border line avoids the help they need because they worry that they will be put in "Group B"
A broken arm is a broken arm, but not all broken arms require the same treatment

 

[Knobgoblin]

Most people who are deeply in need of significant mental health treatment aren't going to seek it.
It's part of the overall problem.

 

[Koda]

JMHO but I if we trulley distigmitise mental health issues there is no line, just degrees of treatment and care required. Otherwise we run into the same issue were someone on the border line avoids the help they need because they worry that they will be put in "Group B"
A broken arm is a broken arm, but not all broken arms require the same treatment

thats always been the case and always will be. There will always be a nutjob out there that in their own denial will never seek help, because they cant or dont want to admit the truth. I guess there's no really destigmatizing the subject then?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

thats always been the case and always will be. There will always be a nutjob out there that in their own denial will never seek help, because they cant or dont want to admit the truth. I guess there's no really destigmatizing the subject then?

Not at all. There are people out there that will break their arm and go on with their life for their own reason, that doesn't mean that we stop telling everyone else that if they even think they broke their arm they should see a doctor.
We can't help everyone, but we should still do the best we can for those that we can help

 

[Andy54Hawken]

thats always been the case and always will be. There will always be a nutjob out there that in their own denial will never seek help, because they cant or dont want to admit the truth. I guess there's no really destigmatizing the subject then?

Please note that I am not picking on you Koda.....

In the above quote , the term "nutjob" was used.....then followed by :
'....there's no really destigmatizing the subject then ?"

I would suggest that destigmatizing mental health , one can start with avoiding terms like nutjob , crazy , loonies....

Also please note that I am guilty of using those terms myself...just was pointing out some irony here.
Andy

 

[Koda]

We can't help everyone, but we should still do the best we can for those that we can help

yes, so then were finding that there are different levels of the issue and some people can be reached but maybe not others?

 

[Koda]

Please note that I am not picking on you Koda.....

In the above quote , the term "nutjob" was used.....then followed by :
'....there's no really destigmatizing the subject then ?"

I would suggest that destigmatizing mental health , one can start with avoiding terms like nutjob , crazy , loonies....

Also please note that I am guilty of using those terms myself...just was pointing out some irony here.
Andy

no offense taken.
I like to speak in prose..... it gets the point across better sometimes. Im not certain what to do about labels like that. We can all agree the Main shooter was a nutjob, crazy. But I agree I don't mean to call anyone that who can be helped. Not certain where that line is I guess.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

yes, so then were finding that there are different levels of the issue and some people can be reached but maybe not others?

That's the way I see it, yes. Or at least we can't reach them right now, sort of like when they first started fixing broken arms they could fix some of them with simple immobilization but the ones with more complicated breaks where out of luck until medicine came up with solutions

 

[Andy54Hawken]

no offense taken.
I like to speak in prose..... it gets the point across better sometimes. Im not certain what to do about labels like that. We can all agree the Main shooter was a nutjob, crazy. But I agree I don't mean to call anyone that who can be helped. Not certain where that line is I guess.

Yep...totally agree.
Andy

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Please note that I am not picking on you Koda.....

In the above quote , the term "nutjob" was used.....then followed by :
'....there's no really destigmatizing the subject then ?"

I would suggest that destigmatizing mental health , one can start with avoiding terms like nutjob , crazy , loonies....

Also please note that I am guilty of using those terms myself...just was pointing out some irony here.
Andy

circa '79 or '80 they converted a section of my highschool to serve students that could not be in regular classes for a variety of reasons. The program had a name that was shortened to an acronym for convince. Within weeks that acronym was the new derogatory term for those students and oters you wanted to insult, as in "You're such a (slur)" or "Stop acting like a total (slur)!"

 

[Nosferatu]

I find going shooting clears my head quite well. No Dr. required.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The shooter from Maine , was said to hear voices....
Which is often interpreted as a sign of mental illness.

However...
iI is also said that Joan of Arc heard voices and had visions...
Yet some folks said it was the voice of God...
While others stated at her trial that those voices and visions were demonic.
( And yes I am aware that there was more at play here in regards to her trial....)

Soooo....
Historically mental health and its interpretation / place / role / abuse of definitions ...
Has had its own issues , since forever....
Andy

 

[Nosferatu]

The shooter from Maine , was said to hear voices....
Which is often interpreted as a sign of mental illness.

However...
iI is also said that Joan of Arc heard voices and had visions...
Yet some folks said it was the voice of God...
While others stated at her trial that those voices and visions were demonic.
( And yes I am aware that there was more at play here in regards to her trial....)

Soooo....
Historically mental health and its interpretation has had its own issues....
Andy

That Jesus guy everyone seems to rave about had the same issue.

 

[Member 53328]

It's a very fine line to walk. I wouldn't seek out counseling/help by the VA or any government ran program as a gun owner.

It took me awhile to reach out for help after getting out of the military. But when I did (through the VA) I was immediately labeled with "PTSD, Anxiety and Depression." I told the counselor I refused to take any meds and would not talk with him if my 2A rights had any chance of being revoked. Needless to say I wasn't there long. My faith in government programs is zero.

The "Mental health organization" as a whole is just like the medical and pharmaceutical companies. They are there to make money. Not make you better. They'd rather over prescribe you and have you dead than to make you better. You're simply a customer to them that they don't want to loose.

Mixing drugs without extreme/thorough diagnosis can create an even worse situation. But to get to that point you have to be honest, which will never happen. Cause when you're honest the probability of having your rights stripped escalates. And once they're gone…. Good luck getting them back. The government/companies solution is to just throw drugs at the problem.

Being a Veteran there are a ton of Non-Profit organizations that do amazing things. Such as Might Oaks Warrior Foundation which I have attended and changed my life.

I find my counseling and community at church and a faith based group I attend weekly. Being sober and having faith in Jesus Christ is what has saved my life. Believe in him or not he has done more for me than any counselor or prescription med ever could or will.

Some will say I am crazy for believing.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

The shooter from Maine , was said to hear voices....
Which is often interpreted as a sign of mental illness.

However...
iI is also said that Joan of Arc heard voices and had visions...
Yet some folks said it was the voice of God...
While others stated at her trial that those voices and visions were demonic.
( And yes I am aware that there was more at play here in regards to her trial....)

Soooo....
Historically mental health and its interpretation / place / role / abuse of definitions ...
Has had its own issues , since forever....
Andy

Here's a pretty good intro to how that can affect people. Keep in mind this version is just audio, there is another version that is a full face shield with VR vision that gives you a real time view of the world but can also remove people or things or add in things that aren't there in reality

 

[Andy54Hawken]

circa '79 or '80 they converted a section of my highschool to serve students that could not be in regular classes for a variety of reasons. The program had a name that was shortened to an acronym for convince. Within weeks that acronym was the new derogatory term for those students and oters you wanted to insult, as in "You're such a (slur)" or "Stop acting like a total (slur)!"

"liked"...not because of what happened....
But because it showcases the power of language.

That said...
Whoever stated :
"The pen is mightier than the sword".....
Clearly never closed in and destroyed an enemy firing at you with a crew served weapon....
( Although my language was pretty powerful at such times... )
Andy

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's a very fine line to walk. I wouldn't seek out counseling/help by the VA or any government ran program as a gun owner.

It took me awhile to reach out for help after getting out of the military. But when I did (through the VA) I was immediately labeled with "PTSD, Anxiety and Depression." I told the counselor I refused to take any meds and would not talk with him if my 2A rights had any chance of being revoked. Needless to say I wasn't there long. My faith in government programs is zero.

The "Mental health organization" as a whole is just like the medical and pharmaceutical companies. They are there to make money. Not make you better. They'd rather over prescribe you and have you dead than to make you better. You're simply a customer to them that they don't want to loose.

Mixing drugs without extreme/thorough diagnosis can create an even worse situation. But to get to that point you have to be honest, which will never happen. Cause when you're honest the probability of having your rights stripped escalates. And once they're gone…. Good luck getting them back. The government/companies solution is to just throw drugs at the problem.

Being a Veteran there are a ton of Non-Profit organizations that do amazing things. Such as Might Oaks Warrior Foundation which I have attended and changed my life.

I find my counseling and community at church and a faith based group I attend weekly. Being sober and having faith in Jesus Christ is what has saved my life. Believe in him or not he has done more for me than any counselor or prescription med ever could or will.

It's for you and others like you that I want things to change.

And no, I do not think it would change anything we disagree on, I just want people to be well.