Florence gun store refuses to do BGC for Antifa member, buyer says his rights violated

[Member 53328]

It use to be that way. And I can applaud the stuff that use to be and made America GREAT.

But then.....
Weather we've improved or declined as a civilization?
Oh well.
It's probably WAY above my pay grade.

That being said.......

IF......the Govt is gonna have a RULE. Then, make it CLEAR. And, also protect those that will adhere to those rules. Don't leave the FFL out to suffer a law suit. Assuming, that the FFL followed what was asked of him/her to do.

Aloha, Mark

Government isn't a fan of firearm ownership or FFLs. It will never be clear. That way they can continue to manipulate it through vague concepts and rules that slide on a scale depending on who you are and your worth in their eyes.

Quit relying on the government to make rulings/broad sweeping legislation for all of us.

FFL owners have a duty to profile. Yes I said it, PROFILE buyers and decide whether or not selling to them is a good/safe idea.

If someone wants a gun they'll get it. Either illegally or through another FFL. Either way the FFL gets the say if they can articulate why they chose to act/decline in the manner they did.

It's a bit like going into a tattoo shop. If your someone who has no tattoos (not heavily tattooed) and ask an artist for hand, neck or face tattoos a lot of them will decline and tell you to go somewhere else. Eventually you'll get to a shop that cares more about money than principles.

 

[dangerranger60]

I'm in the group that thinks there is more to this story than the news and the idiot are wanting to tell.
I personally don't sell to people that give me the impression that they are not mentally fit to have a gun.
What we don't know is if this guy could provide proper ID [ since he just moved]. We don't know what else was in that conversation before they told him to get out of their store.
The only thing we know of keeping the Idiot from getting his gun is the cost of shipping it to a FFL that will do the transfer. But we have not heard the FFLs side. There may be other disqualifying problems.
I doubt this will be the last we hear of this! DR

 

[ScatPackLife]

I can see what you're driving at but the fact is antifa is regularly committing assaults, arson, looting…. And that's just scratching the surface. Knowingly transferring a firearm to a known member would be aiding the enemy. You can put all the theoretical convolutions or emotion into that you want but the fact remains unchanged. By all means, maintain whatever opinion you choose. But mine remains unchanged by your thought process.
no doubt there are others who concur with you. The scumbag won't have to search too far for an ffl to square him away. But the ffl in Florence did the right thing.

I'm going to agree with you. If you're a known gang banger that hasn't been caught doing shutting illegal yet, I hope an FFL would deny them. As far as I know it is within their right legally, to deny firearms to people who intend to do harm. They are not "just gun sellers".

And I think there is more to this story than just the Antifa affiliation. Me bets there be some shenanigans Fatty be not telling us. Rrrr!

 

[ScatPackLife]

I'm in the group that thinks there is more to this story than the news and the idiot are wanting to tell.
I personally don't sell to people that give me the impression that they are not mentally fit to have a gun.
What we don't know is if this guy could provide proper ID [ since he just moved]. We don't know what else was in that conversation before they told him to get out of their store.
The only thing we know of keeping the Idiot from getting his gun is the cost of shipping it to a FFL that will do the transfer. But we have not heard the FFLs side. There may be other disqualifying problems.
I doubt this will be the last we hear of this! DR

Yes, I second this.

 

[nwslopoke]

Yeah.....BY LAW......The Govt has set the parameters as to who is a PROHIBITED PERSON. I'm NOT saying that the Gun Shop should break that law. Only that.......the Gun shop would have "more cover". IF, the BGC was conducted.

NOW......
IF.......the gun shop did that. And, the Govt gave their "proceed". Well, YES.......they could/would be between a rock and a hard place.

So say.....that they get a "proceed". Maybe......they might still make the "Call" to deny the sale. Right or Wrong. YUP......making history and/or a coming expensive lawsuit.....just may be in their future.

Aloha, Mark

There's plenty of cases now and O-Binden trying to make it easier to go after the FFLs and manufacturers. If the shop owner is not denying a sale due to being a protected class, that should be his right. I wouldn't want to be sued or go to jail for a person wearing their illicit associations on their sleeves.

Go find one of your own tribe to buy from and I'll keep my house and livelihood. I think about 7ish years ago in Vancouver there was a viral video of a difficult customer at a gun shop. The police were called.

Not a true equivalence of this transaction because the customer wasn't violent, but, no means no for everyone equally. If a 16yo came to buy my 600hp muscle car, I might say no. The kid didn't do anything wrong but as a responsible adult, neither did I.

 

[Member 53328]

There's plenty of cases now and O-Binden trying to make it easier to go after the FFLs and manufacturers. If the shop owner is not denying a sale due to being a protected class, that should be his right. I wouldn't want to be sued or go to jail for a person wearing their illicit associations on their sleeves.

Go find one of your own tribe to buy from and I'll keep my house and livelihood. I think about 7ish years ago in Vancouver there was a viral video of a difficult customer at a gun shop. The police were called.

Not a true equivalence of this transaction because the customer wasn't violent, but, no means no for everyone equally. If a 16yo came to buy my 600hp muscle car, I might say no. The kid didn't do anything wrong but as a responsible adult, neither did I.

Personally I have met with individuals to do private party transfers and upon meeting them and talking for a very brief amount of time I ended up refusing to sell to them. Simply on my own principles. After refusal the individual's demeanor solidified my choice.

 

[ma96782]

I can see what you're driving at but the fact is antifa is regularly committing assaults, arson, looting…. And that's just scratching the surface. Knowingly transferring a firearm to a known member would be aiding the enemy. You can put all the theoretical convolutions or emotion into that you want but the fact remains unchanged. By all means, maintain whatever opinion you choose. But mine remains unchanged by your thought process.
no doubt there are others who concur with you. The scumbag won't have to search too far for an ffl to square him away. But the ffl in Florence did the right thing.

RE : FACTS.

Humm.....consider the LOGIC and FACTS according to some of the LEFT. Yup......some people will/might just say that they ARE in FACT.....reasonable and have common sense.

So then (by THEIR logic and facts).....
If/Since you might have/may have voted for TRUMP.
Then, you must support the overthrow of the US Government.

BUT, But, but......
The big danger (as I see it) is in.....attaching a LABEL to a group and condemning everyone within it that GROUP for whatever.....the message that the GROUP happens to have/be. Yeah maybe, not everyone is a TRUE supporter in ALL CASES.

YES, there is also something to be said for/about someone who genuinely supports a GROUP's call for violence, mayhem, rioting, rock throwing, arson, not so peaceful protests, etc.... etc.....

So then anyway......The Standard Disclaimer Applies.

Then, that being said......
In most of America at least......
An INDIVIDUAL can only be held accountable for the illegal ACT that is actually done by that individual.

And I'm NOT speaking about......for example : where the Felony Murder Rule applies and some other incidents/cases.

Aloha, Mark

 

[oremike]

I think if someone identified themselves as Antifa and wanted to buy my ammo at a gun show I'd refuse the sale. I don't want me or anyone I know shot at or with my ammo.

 

[Member 53328]

RE : FACTS.

Humm.....consider the LOGIC and FACTS according to some of the LEFT. Yup......some people will/might just say that they ARE in FACT.....reasonable and have common sense.

So then (by THEIR logic and facts).....
If/Since you might have/may have voted for TRUMP.
Then, you must support the overthrow of the US Government.

BUT, But, but......
The big danger (as I see it) is in.....attaching a LABEL to a group and condemning everyone within it that GROUP for whatever.....the message that the GROUP happens to have/be. Yeah maybe, not everyone is a TRUE supporter in ALL CASSES. YES, there is also something to be said for/about someone who genuinely supports a GROUP's call for violence, mayhem, rioting, rock throwing, arson, not so peaceful protests, etc.... etc.....

The Standard Disclaimer Applies.

Anyway, that being said......
In most of America at least......
An INDIVIDUAL can only be held accountable for the illegal ACT that is actually done by that individual.

And I'm NOT speaking about......for example : where the Felony Murder Rule applies and some other incidents/cases.

Aloha, Mark

You're lumping every "group" into the same pool/category. That's simply a generalization.

Groups/organizations have an intent and a goal. If you're apart of/represent that group then you immediately take on the intent/goal of that group. Some groups want to see America thrive. Other groups want to see it destroyed.

They are not the same and should not be treated equally.

 

[ma96782]

Government isn't a fan of firearm ownership or FFLs. It will never be clear. That way they can continue to manipulate it through vague concepts and rules that slide on a scale depending on who you are and your worth in their eyes.

Quit relying on the government to make rulings/broad sweeping legislation for all of us.

FFL owners have a duty to profile. Yes I said it, PROFILE buyers and decide whether or not selling to them is a good/safe idea.

If someone wants a gun they'll get it. Either illegally or through another FFL. Either way the FFL gets the say if they can articulate why they chose to act/decline in the manner they did.

It's a bit like going into a tattoo shop. If your someone who has no tattoos (not heavily tattooed) and ask an artist for hand, neck or face tattoos a lot of them will decline and tell you to go somewhere else. Eventually you'll get to a shop that cares more about money than principles.

Things use to be like that.

Unfortunately (IMHO).....now a days......choice has been restricted either by LAW or Court Rulings. Then, "responsibility, for ones self" is NOT taken seriously by some.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Member 53328]

Things use to be like that.

Unfortunately (IMHO).....now a days......choice has been restricted either by LAW or Court Rulings. Then, "responsibility, for ones self" is NOT taken seriously by some.

Aloha, Mark

Well I guess just step in line and take a knee.

 

[ma96782]

You're lumping every "group" into the same pool/category. That's simply a generalization.

Groups/organizations have an intent and a goal. If you're apart of/represent that group then you immediately take on the intent/goal of that group. Some groups want to see America thrive. Other groups want to see it destroyed.

They are not the same and should not be treated equally.

Groups and making generalizations. Yeah.......I have to be EXTRA careful. Sometimes, it slips out. Though.....I'll note that having a "correct" conversation can be difficult at times.

Edits and re-Edits.
Trying to make stuff clear/clearer.
Etc.... etc....

Aloha, Mark

 

[saxon]

It is not. Prove me wrong.

miss spoken it was a resolution to add them

MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION on placing the Antifa movement on the EU terrorist list | B9-0187/2023 | European Parliament

MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION pursuant to Rule 143 of the Rules of Procedure on placing the Antifa movement on the EU terrorist list Bernhard Zimniok, Markus Buchheit, Christine Anderson, Sylvia Limmer, Guido Reil, Philippe Olivier, Jean-Paul Garraud, Roman Haider, Filip De Man

www.europarl.europa.eu

and they are a terrorist organization prove me wrong.

 

[monkeybutler]

miss spoken it was a resolution to add them

MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION on placing the Antifa movement on the EU terrorist list | B9-0187/2023 | European Parliament

MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION pursuant to Rule 143 of the Rules of Procedure on placing the Antifa movement on the EU terrorist list Bernhard Zimniok, Markus Buchheit, Christine Anderson, Sylvia Limmer, Guido Reil, Philippe Olivier, Jean-Paul Garraud, Roman Haider, Filip De Man

www.europarl.europa.eu

and they are a terrorist organization prove me wrong.

It was a resolution sponsored entirely by populist far-right parties, mostly German. It does not appear to have been passed. My bet is it elicited some combination of nausea and laughter, and never had the slightest chance of passing.

I do not believe Antifa is a competent terrorist group. I do not believe they are competent at anything, really. They seem like a bunch of skids. So when there is grandstanding around Antifa as existential terror threat, it just does not ring true to me.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It was a resolution sponsored entirely by populist far-right parties, mostly German. It does not appear to have been passed. My bet is it elicited some combination of nausea and laughter, and never had the slightest chance of passing.

I do not believe Antifa is a competent terrorist group. I do not believe they are competent at anything, really. They seem like a bunch of skids. So when there is grandstanding around Antifa as existential terror threat, it just does not ring true to me.

Schrödinger's Terrorist's

Simultaneously mommie basement dwelling losers and well organized international criminal masterminds

 

[Koda]

I do not believe Antifa is a competent terrorist group. I do not believe they are competent at anything, really. They seem like a bunch of skids. So when there is grandstanding around Antifa as existential terror threat, it just does not ring true to me.

they got the annual Portland Republican parade shut down over threats of violence.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Labeling a particular group as a "Terrorist Organization".

Really? And using the UN to be THE Deciding Authority/Factor, as to which particular organization(s) is a good one vs which is a bad one?

OMG!

As I asked before.....

"Who gets to decide?"

Note this quote.

Other countries, including New Zealand, deem only Hamas' military wing, which is called the Qassam Brigades, to be a terrorist group. The U.N. has not designated any part of the organization as a terrorist group. In addition to its militant activity, Hamas provides social services for people in Gaza, such as education and medical care.

Hamas says it is a freedom-fighting movement trying to free Palestinians from occupation and reclaim large parts of Israel. Its tactics are divisive among Palestinians and those who support establishing a Palestinian state because of its use of violence. As peace talks have repeatedly failed, its attacks have grown more popular among Palestinians.

A recent poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, based in Ramallah, found that nearly a quarter of Palestinians said movements like Hamas were "the most positive thing that has happened to the Palestinian people since 1948." The poll reported that an even higher proportion — one-third — lamented political divisions among Palestinians, calling the political split between Hamas and Fatah the most damaging development since the occupation began.

Taken from : https://www.nbcnews.com/news/invest...up-deadliest-attack-israel-decades-rcna119628

Aloha, Mark

PS.....don't get me wrong. Because, I still believe that we all have the freedom to choose who we want to associate with. Though, yeah. Sometimes, we are forced to/have to associate.....for the sake of work or whatever, etc..... etc.....

LOL.....I doubt that anyone will be seeing me have a beer with Obama anytime soon. And add to the list.....Clinton and Brandon too. Yeah, they probably don't/wouldn't want my company either.

STORY TIME.

As a government employee and soon to be retired from The State of Hawaii (after working for over 40 years).....my father.....was asked to go to meet with the Governor.

LOL....he declined the opportunity.

 

[monkeybutler]

they got the annual Portland Republican parade shut down over threats of violence.

Sorry but "Portland Republican Parade" sounds so absurd to me, I can't parse it at all. Everybody in Portland seems so pooftah commie to me, those parade folks must be from out of town.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Sorry but "Portland Republican Parade" sounds so absurd to me, I can't parse it at all. Everybody in Portland seems so pooftah commie to me, those parade folks must be from out of town.

Presented without comment

Divided Streets: Canceled 82nd Avenue Parade Draws Conflicting Protests To East Portland

It was supposed to be the annual Rose Parade that shut down 82nd Avenue in Northeast Portland on Saturday. Instead, critics and supporters of President Donald Trump took to the streets instead.

www.opb.org

 

[Koda]

Downplaying left wing extremism is intellectual dishonesty and is what gets people like Trump elected.