Florence gun store refuses to do BGC for Antifa member, buyer says his rights violated

[Knobgoblin]

I may be wrong, but i thought he lives in Florence., id say never underestimate how many angry un-employable 30-40 year old dudes are still living with parents , in Florence.

I was a bit surprised to see so many scumbag street people there this last summer. Looking like a preview of Crescent City, part 3.

 

[Savage Jav]

I guess I don't understand why the business card was presented unless it was to stir up some chit. The deal seems sketchy at best and I believe that the gun store can sell or not to whoever they want. I for one would not want to sell ammo I knew was going to Ner'do wells.

I take it as another reason it was bad to pass mandatory background checks on all sales. FFL's essentally control who an who cannot buy. Assuming we all follow the law.

 

[oremike]

I was a bit surprised to see so many scumbag street people there this last summer. Looking like a preview of Crescent City, part 3.

Florence has always been a rougher lower budget coast town. The Rhodyfest was a world renowned biker party but the progressives not from around here decided we the people couldn't have that kind of fun anymore. It's in Lane County so Eugene politics and government. Just like everywhere when the timber and fishing jobs dried up everyone went on welfare and then Meth moved in. You would think the Dunes would bring in people and they do from May to Sept. but after that the rains move in and those that can move on and all that's left is those that have no where else to go.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Florence has always been a rougher lower budget coast town. The Rhodyfest was a world renowned biker party but the progressives not from around here decided we the people couldn't have that kind of fun anymore. It's in Lane County so Eugene politics and government. Just like everywhere when the timber and fishing jobs dried up everyone went on welfare and then Meth moved in. You would think the Dunes would bring in people and they do from May to Sept. but after that the rains move in and those that can move on and all that's left is those that have no where else to go.

I haven't seen Brookings or Crescent city since covid was full on. But Crescent city was a step away from a George A. Romero sound stage even then.

 

[Provincial]

Florence has always been a rougher lower budget coast town. The Rhodyfest was a world renowned biker party but the progressives not from around here decided we the people couldn't have that kind of fun anymore. It's in Lane County so Eugene politics and government. Just like everywhere when the timber and fishing jobs dried up everyone went on welfare and then Meth moved in. You would think the Dunes would bring in people and they do from May to Sept. but after that the rains move in and those that can move on and all that's left is those that have no where else to go.

There has been a boom in development that caters to retirees. A large proportion of the buyers are from California, because they can sell out their 3-bedroom ranch down there for enough to buy a small retirement home in Florence and live well off the difference. These types have infected the entire Oregon Coast. They are also pricing older homes beyond the reach of locals, in a twisted sort of "Gentrification."

Lane County loves this, since they benefit from the increase in property values. They cherry-pick "comparable sales" to make your property look more valuable so they can soak you for excess taxes. I have first-hand experience with this. This taxation helps reduce affordability for working people, making the problem worse.

 

[ScatPackLife]

If what the article is saying is true I think this guys rights were violated. Paraphrasing what Fatty said, he believes what Antifa stands for but doesn't go out and riot with the idiots, I think he was trying to say he isn't violent like most of the garbage.

However, something seems off. He bought the gun when he lived in another state but then had it shipped after he moved? Why? And why the business card? I have a feeling there are details missing.

I think we would need to hear the FFLs side.

And just as importantly, IIRC, FFLs are told that not only do they have the right to refuse to transfer/sell a firearm to someone they feel is questionable (for valid reasons), it is their obligation to do so. Being a member of a group engages in unlawful illegal activity (riots, vandalism, violence) certainly qualifies.

I hope he would deny someone who handed him a card with a KKK affiliation or who had a swastika tattoo. Right?!

 

[ma96782]

I'd be surprised if he hasn't already made a complaint to the OR Civil Rights Commission (or whoever is in charge of that sort of stuff).

Didn't it also start with them, in the Bakery Case?

Aloha, Mark

 

[nwslopoke]

I take it as another reason it was bad to pass mandatory background checks on all sales. FFL's essentally control who an who cannot buy. Assuming we all follow the law.

They always could. FFLs provide a service. If someone presents themselves as a problem, why not believe them? So, this FFL put community safety over a buck. I like that.

 

[monkeybutler]

#3 antifa is on the EU list of terrorist's

It is not. Prove me wrong.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

What if the buyer presented a card with :
Proud Boys....
3%ers...
Oath Keepers....

Someone with an opposing view , could say that those were terrorist groups....
And refuse a sale.
One man's terrorist , is often another man's freedom fighter.

Please note that I do not think that the groups I mentioned are in fact terrorist groups...
Nor do I have anything in common with the groups listed on the buyer's card in the OP.
I dislike extremes in all forms.
Andy

 

[CamoDeafie]

Other than what's already been said...

I do think the person in question was the one who called the news media group because he couldn't let it go that he of all people were denied a transfer by a FFL who has every right to deny a transfer if the FFL felt something was off when the potential customer presented that card to the FFL.

Edit. There are severe consequences for the FFL to knowingly completing transfers or sales to a prohibited person with or without the results of a BG check... the ATF have shut down FFLs for such things and also supposedly for clerical errors

 

[Artilleryman]

This one is much easier than it's being made out to be. No rights were violated. The FFL exercised caution & refused to transfer a firearm to a member of a known criminal organization. That's pretty simple to understand.

 

[ma96782]

IMHO.....

Public accommodations and even business open to the public.....are subject to being "Civil" in their interaction actions with the public. It should NOT be a matter of a : race, religion, political ideology, sexual orientation, membership in a certain group, etc.... etc..... Then add, that they are REGULATED and somewhat even PROTECTED (by law - by the Govt). So it's even more so. The idea that.....

"It's a Private Business and I can do as I please."

Well, it's been dead (or say that, it's been dying) for a long time.

Do I like it?

NO. And well, I don't get paid the BIG BUCKS to make a one size fits all rule/law. I'll leave that to someone with more smarts. That being said.....it's also my opinion that, the SCOUTS had sidestepped THAT IMPORTANT ISSUE in the Cake Baking case.

Aloha, Mark

PS......don't even try to bring up the argument about.....it's my home and my rules. Because.....(in most cases) your home is NOT open to the public.

 

[CamoDeafie]

IMHO.....

Public accommodations and even business open to the public.....are subject to being "Civil" in their interaction actions with the public. It should NOT be a matter of a : race, religion, political ideology, sexual orientation, membership in a certain group, etc.... etc..... Then add, that they are REGULATED and somewhat even PROTECTED (by law - by the Govt). So it's even more so. The idea that.....

"It's a Private Business and I can do as I please."

Well, it's been dead (or say that, it's been dying) for a long time.

Do I like it?

NO. And well, I don't get paid the BIG BUCKS to make a one size fits all rule/law. I'll leave that to someone with more smarts. That being said.....it's also my opinion that, the SCOUTS had sidestepped THAT IMPORTANT ISSUE in the Cake Baking case.

Aloha, Mark

PS......don't even try to bring up the argument about.....it's my home and my rules. Because.....(in most cases) your home is NOT open to the public.

Indeed. but FFLs cannot legally and knowingly sell firearms or complete transfers to prohibited persons, and... they do have discretion on whether or not the potential customer is a member of the prohibited persons group, or not. Yes they legally can refuse to do business to a person if that person is associated with extremist groups of any kind.
Otherwise.. they run the risk of having the DOJ/ATF shutting them down and losing the FFL for doing such

 

[ma96782]

Indeed. but FFLs cannot legally and knowingly sell firearms or complete transfers to prohibited persons, and... they do have discretion on whether or not the potential customer is a member of the prohibited persons group, or not. Yes they legally can refuse to do business to a person if that person is associated with extremist groups of any kind.
Otherwise.. they run the risk of having the DOJ/ATF shutting them down and losing the FFL for doing such

YES (partially)......
But (IMHO)......if a BGC isn't even considered because of whatever reason the shop owner may have.......

Yeah.....I don't like it that......
His hair is long.
He is wearing an earring.
He dresses like a she.
She dresses like a man.
He is a member of #BLM, the Democratic Party, ACLU.....
He winked at me. It's possible that he is gay.
Etc.... etc.....

Because.......in my experience selling guns........
They are no good.
They are trouble.
They are "Freaks."
Etc..... etc.....

BTW, who gets to decide......

Who is an extremist? Or what is an extremist group?

So then......
IF.....the Govt denies the transfer......
Well, it's out of the gun shop's hands.

But......it never even got to that point.

+++++++

What about?

".....shall not be infringed."

YEAH well......some people......still haven't gotten on that train, YET.

Aloha, Mark

 

[gmerkt]

However, something seems off. He bought the gun when he lived in another state but then had it shipped after he moved? Why? And why the business card? I have a feeling there are details missing.

I think we would need to hear the FFLs side.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that Colorado thing myself.

I'd think that dealing in guns is on a different level than sales of non-lethal consumer goods. So refusals shouldn't be a tricky thing for dealers. What I see here, though is the business card thing came along after the transaction had been initiated. If a meth head looking scuzz wearing a Proud Boys tee shirt came in my store, I wouldn't sell him a gun. That would be the deal from the outset. But if he was clean-cut, we started the deal, then I saw the business card, I'd grit my teeth and complete the deal. Just as a practical matter. Pissing contests in business can get messy.

Antifa, I'm getting that this is a devious attempt by anarchists to appear legitimate. Aren't these the guys wearing hoodies and (pre-Covid) face masks who go around in mobs breaking things and looting? I first saw this in the Seattle WTO riots in 1999. In my mind, that was the genesis for anarchists getting away with riot and theft. Embracing anti-fascism is just a cover for acting out. It sounds better than anarchy.

 

[CamoDeafie]

YES (partially)......
But (IMHO)......if a BGC isn't even considered because.........whatever reason the shop owner may have.......

Yeah.....I don't like it that......
His hair is long.
He is wearing an earring.
He dresses like a she.
She dresses like a man.
Etc.... etc.....

Because.......in my experience selling guns........
They are no good.
They are trouble.
They are "Freaks."
Etc..... etc.....

So then......
IF.....the Govt denies the transfer......
Well, it's out of the gun shop's hands.

+++++++

What about?

".....shall not be infringed."

YEAH well......some people......still haven't gotten on that train, YET.

Aloha, Mark

Not disagreeing with your premise. Just that yes legally ( insofar as what the Govt says ), the FFL is between a rock and a hard place with regards to this specific customer. I'm not sure if I read it
right elsewhere, that this person has had a criminal history anyways?

 

[ma96782]

Yeah.....BY LAW......The Govt has set the parameters as to who is a PROHIBITED PERSON. I'm NOT saying that the Gun Shop should break that law. Only that.......the Gun shop would have "more cover". IF, the BGC was conducted.

NOW......
IF.......the gun shop did that. And, the Govt gave their "proceed". Well, YES.......they could/would be between a rock and a hard place.

So say.....that they get a "proceed". Maybe......they might still make the "Call" to deny the sale. Right or Wrong. YUP......making history and/or a coming expensive lawsuit.....just may be in their future.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Certaindeaf]

Could always say he smelled weed on the grifter.. because you know he did.. and Doritos.

 

[Member 38805]

There's only one reason a person identifies themselves as "Antifa" to a gun shop prior to asking them to do a legal transfer, and that's to test the waters for a planned lawsuit.
This clown went in there with the "business card" and presented it to instigate a refusal to do the paperwork, as he could easily have just done the transfer like anyone else does. I doubt that almost any purchaser drops a business card for themselves on a counter when doing a transfer, regardless of their business.