Flaked out....what next?

[spider]

I mean what would have been the problem if the 'system' had allowed for the BGC to be made before the sale ?
Again maybe I am missing something or was this too 'sensical' for the system so they had to complicate it?

It is incase the firearm they are wanting to buy is accidentally sold to another person.

The background check throughs FICS OSP has the FFL key in the Purchasers information then their ID info. Once that is placed in, the next step is the actual firearm with the serial number. So that specific background check is linked to the specific gun.

Hence, why FFLs cannot run background checks willy nilly, they are linked to a particular firearm with the particular serial number.

If the purchaser doesn't want to buy the firearm, guess what, another background check wherein they have to put in the purchasers info and the info of the particular firearm they are wanting to get.

 

[mad ox]

So as a seller if you meet the buyer at an FFL and you take payment and leave and then the buyer fails the BGC the gun store now owns the gun? Is that really how it works?

Not legally. if the seller refuses to refund, then the buyer will have to sue the seller. Meanwhile the FFL is holding the firearm and could get drawn in as part of it and blocked from disposing of it. That is why I don't take posession of private sale firearms till the clearance comes back. If I was to get caught in something like that, as an FFL I would hand the firearm over to LEO or ATF as abandoned and log it off my books.

 

[dobeman]

It is incase the firearm they are wanting to buy is accidentally sold to another person.

The background check throughs FICS OSP has the FFL key in the Purchasers information then their ID info. Once that is placed in, the next step is the actual firearm with the serial number. So that specific background check is linked to the specific gun.

Hence, why FFLs cannot run background checks willy nilly, they are linked to a particular firearm with the particular serial number.

If the purchaser doesn't want to buy the firearm, guess what, another background check wherein they have to put in the purchasers info and the info of the particular firearm they are wanting to get.

makes sense.. going back to main intent... that the buyer of firearm doesn't have any legal impediments to owning a firearm and that the firearm is not stolen or otherwise flagged in the system for whatever reason. And then there is a record - at least in the FFL books - of the sale of that serial number firearm to that person (i.e., traceability).

 

[mad ox]

I may be missing something but is/was there any specific reason(s) when all this was 'designed' why the BGC can only be made AFTER the purchase?

I mean what would have been the problem if the 'system' had allowed for the BGC to be made before the sale ?

FFL would be paid and if buyer failed then all walk. If the buyer passes he pays the seller, receives the gun and all walk.

Again maybe I am missing something or was this too 'sensical' for the system so they had to complicate it?

Big picture overview here is the current system was designed only for retail sales. BGC On private sale is a recent thing. While the same forms are used, the process is different. Some FFL treat private sales as retail sales and that can complicate perceptions of how private sales wotk

 

[spider]

makes sense.. going back to main intent... that the buyer of firearm doesn't have any legal impediments to owning a firearm and that the firearm is not stolen or otherwise flagged in the system for whatever reason. And then there is a record - at least in the FFL books - of the sale of that serial number firearm to that person (i.e., traceability).

In Oregon, they say there isn't a registry, but for every firearm that is sold or transferred in a FFL holding establishment, there is a tick mark of traceability.

In 2013, I had Washington County Sheriff Deputies at my door at 7am. They asked me if I lost a pistol in the woods. And I told them no and so I asked them what it was and it was a Colt that I sold on outdoorstrader a few month before and they asked me who I sold it to and contact info and if I had a bill of sale. I had it all, so I handed it over, they couldn't get in contact with buyer and they let me pick up the gun after doing a background check and its been in my safe every since. Which is nice, cause if they didnt give me that option, some Deputy would be owning a pretty nice 1911.

 

[mad ox]

In Washington, retail handguns have been on file with the Department of Licensing for several years. With the mandatory BGC passed, all handguns sales are now reported. With 1639 last year, it now includes semiautomatic rifles. So far, shotguns and other rifles are still only recorded in the FFLs books.

Subject to change without our approval

 

[dobeman]

In Oregon, they say there isn't a registry, but for every firearm that is sold or transferred in a FFL holding establishment, there is a tick mark of traceability.

In 2013, I had Washington County Sheriff Deputies at my door at 7am. They asked me if I lost a pistol in the woods. And I told them no and so I asked them what it was and it was a Colt that I sold on outdoorstrader a few month before and they asked me who I sold it to and contact info and if I had a bill of sale. I had it all, so I handed it over, they couldn't get in contact with buyer and they let me pick up the gun after doing a background check and its been in my safe every since. Which is nice, cause if they didnt give me that option, some Deputy would be owning a pretty nice 1911.

back some years ago when we could sell firearms face to face in a parking lot... I got a letter from BATF reporting that a saiga rifle once registered to me was recovered in a house raid somewhere in Oregon. the jist of the letter was if I wanted to make any claim to the rifle. I answered no, I sold it some years ago. Nobody ever asked for my bill of sale paperwork.

 

[3MTA3]

I always thought the OSP was legally allowed to keep the records up to 5 years.

Correct, though it's now a mandate per Kate Brown EO a few years ago. The problem is that they have been busted not once, but twice, for keeping records much longer and using them as a de facto registry. The first time they were busted they claimed it was destroyed. The second time it was identified that they had not destroyed it, claimed it was a mistake and again promised to destroy it. I'm SURE they did, and you will see that the day after Oregon steamrolls a registration through.

 

[Buckeyeguy98]

RESOLUTION!!!! I made a call to the FFL and they canceled the transfer without issue. This was a tough lesson but a good one. If anyone learned from my mistakes( cause there were multiple) than it isn't a wasted error! BIG THANKS to all who commented with advice and ideas to help a brother out without being condescending and smug. Thanks to the mods for cleaning up my screw up....I placed faith in you guys to help and dang y'all came through. Thanks again all!

 

[Soli]

Thanks for this thread. Last non friend xfer I did was before the current state of things; whole thread is very enlightening!

 

[K-22]

That is generally the process for a retail sale. Private sales are different. The 4473 and here in WA, the state form both have a box to check for private sales. There also has to be a SN. The sale is considered pending during the check. Again both NICS and LEO use the word "Proceed"

If would be cheaper I think just to go to their LEO and request a records check on themselves. Then there is no chance they could get busted for lying on the 4473

As a random thought, I would think someone fishing to see if they can pass a check is lying on the yes/no question. Here in Washington a denied is reported to WSP They are supposed to follow up and possibly prosecute someone lying on the paperwork. Never heard of it being done though.

This is the way my FFL does a private party transfer:
1. Buyer and seller do BGC paperwork at his shop. FFL does not take possession of gun. Gun remains with seller.
2. When BGC clears, FFL notifies buyer, buyer, buyer notifies seller.
3. Buyer and seller meet at FFL, do transfer, and complete transaction.
FFL never has possession of gun.
FFL charges $20
Easy peasy.
Best,
Gary

 

[spider]

RESOLUTION!!!! I made a call to the FFL and they canceled the transfer without issue. This was a tough lesson but a good one. If anyone learned from my mistakes( cause there were multiple) than it isn't a wasted error! BIG THANKS to all who commented with advice and ideas to help a brother out without being condescending and smug. Thanks to the mods for cleaning up my screw up....I placed faith in you guys to help and dang y'all came through. Thanks again all!

Ok, now pick one of us to give your firearm to.

 

[Buckeyeguy98]

As soon as one of you guys has a few hundred extra bucks or some parts for me!!!

 

[ajgunner]

I read all of the 1st page then bypassed pages 2 and 3. This thread is a learning experience for some, but I know the 2 things I want to learn---
WHO WAS THE FLAKE and DID YOU LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK???

If neither of these were done, it was not much of a learning experience except for you.

 

[BSDave]

Money first, background check last. .

I sold a pistol last year. I took money in the parking lot walked in to marine & outdoor in OC. They told me we broke the law right there. they then took the pistol from us and the cash. They transferred the pistol to them. They then ran the numbers on the pistol with OSP and BGC they guy. When all was clear they gave me back the cash and escorted they guy out of the store with the pistol. They basically escrowed the transaction. They were kinda dickish about the whole transaction like it was a waste of their time and charged the guy $50. We were there over an hour And no one could leave until they were done.

 

[Mikej]

charged the guy $50.

I consider this ^^ criminal. Well, greedy and corrupt at least..

 

[dobeman]

I sold a pistol last year. I took money in the parking lot walked in to marine & outdoor in OC. They told me we broke the law right there. they then took the pistol from us and the cash. They transferred the pistol to them. They then ran the numbers on the pistol with OSP and BGC they guy. When all was clear they gave me back the cash and escorted they guy out of the store with the pistol. They basically escrowed the transaction. They were kinda dickish about the whole transaction like it was a waste of their time and charged the guy $50. We were there over an hour And no one could leave until they were done.

note to self: dont use marine & outdoor in OC

 

[Mikej]

I sold a pistol last year. I took money in the parking lot walked in to marine & outdoor in OC. They told me we broke the law right there. they then took the pistol from us and the cash. They transferred the pistol to them. They then ran the numbers on the pistol with OSP and BGC they guy. When all was clear they gave me back the cash and escorted they guy out of the store with the pistol. They basically escrowed the transaction. They were kinda dickish about the whole transaction like it was a waste of their time and charged the guy $50. We were there over an hour And no one could leave until they were done.

Oh, you mean Fisherman's Marine" I bet.

 

[Member 53328]

I sold a pistol last year. I took money in the parking lot walked in to marine & outdoor in OC. They told me we broke the law right there. they then took the pistol from us and the cash. They transferred the pistol to them. They then ran the numbers on the pistol with OSP and BGC they guy. When all was clear they gave me back the cash and escorted they guy out of the store with the pistol. They basically escrowed the transaction. They were kinda dickish about the whole transaction like it was a waste of their time and charged the guy $50. We were there over an hour And no one could leave until they were done.

Well that's a store policy. Not law.

 

[Patrickffbritt]

Hey now you have a bank heist gun or hit man gun, and a guy to take the blame