Flaked out....what next?

[Knute]

Better ask an FFL if the supposed buyer's BGC was submitted with your firearms serial number and it goes through, does that association of record have any negative impacts on your gun for a future transfer?

 

[Koda]

So if I still have possession I am in the clear? Just trying to get the best answers I can...the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

no, there is a successful background check record the guy could claim. There hasn't been any case law on this that I'm aware of but technically a BGC is a record of transfer and if he passes the OSP has a record that the gun is in his possession.

Thanks so far, I still have the pistol....so is there any other recourse!

call the OSP before he does and explain the situation and tell them you have the gun and want it re-checked in your name and address. You will have it on record, at least with the OSP database, with a timestamp after the other guy that you own the gun. Also... if the check hasnt cleared yet maybe just ask the FFL to cancel it?

 

[peteNW503]

Thankfully in your case background checks are taking at least 5-7 days right now so I'd give that FFL a call tomorrow if their open and explain the situation. Hopefully he is still in the que and the transfer can be voided! If the buyer was someone on NWFA please give us the users name. Most people on here are reasonable respectful people and in no way does that kind of childish behavior reflect NWFA.

 

[SUPER X]

When the background check comes back if approved he can walk

Thanks so far, I still have the pistol....so is there any other recourse!

If you have the pistol thats as probably as good as it gets in a bad situation .Sounds like you learned a cheap lesson. I'd just give his check back after photographing it for my own protection and have him sign a receipt .Golden rule , If something looks weird ,It probably is.

 

[The Heretic]

I am not sure there is a problem.

You have possession of a firearm that would seem to be officially someone else's responsibility.

I personally would love it if all of my firearms that I possess, that the government can trace to me, suddenly become traceable to someone else in the government's records and I could say "see? your records say I no longer own those guns."

But yeah, I can understand wanting to get it straightened out, but I think it is the responsibility of the buyer to do that, not you.

 

[Rem700..300]

Curious what are your opinions when you dont get an instant when buying or selling and the FFL doesnt keep the gun until the BGC passes. Had this happen once. The person was great. I kept my money and he kept the gun. We met back in 2 days at the FFL and completed the deal.
I have heard stories of people wanting the money and keep the gun until the BGC happens. To me this is a no go.

 

[3MTA3]

I am not sure there is a problem.

You have possession of a firearm that would seem to be officially someone else's responsibility.

I personally would love it if all of my firearms that I possess, that the government can trace to me, suddenly become traceable to someone else in the government's records and I could say "see? your records say I no longer own those guns."

But yeah, I can understand wanting to get it straightened out, but I think it is the responsibility of the buyer to do that, not you.

"Theoretically", Oregon does not have a registration (except for the OSP, which has been busted twice and promised twice they woudl destroy the information. Then there was Kate Brown's unconstitutional (Oregon Constitution) executive order requiring them to keep the previous illegal information for several years.

 

[K-22]

Just a question for someone out in the universe. So I had a pistol sold and we were waiting on the back ground check to go through but the guy backed out and presumably the check will go through. So what do we ( I ) need to do if the deal is now off to keep things legal and squared up? Thanks in advance!

Please tell me the transfer paperwork was not done before the background check.
No transfer, no problem.
Best,
Gary

 

[The Heretic]

"Theoretically", Oregon does not have a registration (except for the OSP, which has been busted twice and promised twice they woudl destroy the information. Then there was Kate Brown's unconstitutional (Oregon Constitution) executive order requiring them to keep the previous illegal information for several years.

As I have said for years, and mentioned in other threads/posts, as a software engineer, I feel qualified to assert that even if the state wanted to, it is almost impossible to wipe out all traces of the transfer data that is put into a information system - especially those so antiquated as the State or Oregon uses. There are copies of copies of copies. And that is if they wanted to erase all data - which I take leave to strongly doubt that is the case.

If I wanted to create such a system that kept no records of such transfers, I would have to do it from the very beginning, with due diligence, using best practices and modern systems - neither of which the state of Oregon uses (if their OED systems are any example). In my 30 years in software engineering, I have personally witnessed such patterns of data leakage almost everywhere I worked. I probably still have copies of some of it somewhere on disks I have stored somewhere - used as test data. They don't even have to really try to preserve some of it, but if they did, it is super easy to make such copies without anyone knowing, and to keep it for later use.

 

[The Heretic]

Curious what are your opinions when you dont get an instant when buying or selling and the FFL doesnt keep the gun until the BGC passes. Had this happen once. The person was great. I kept my money and he kept the gun. We met back in 2 days at the FFL and completed the deal.
I have heard stories of people wanting the money and keep the gun until the BGC happens. To me this is a no go.

I had this happen at the height of the deep long waiting queue during this summer when there were many thousands of BGCs waiting to be completed. It took a week for the BGC to go thru.

Naturally I kept the rifle, he kept most of his $. He paid some (a few hundred) and went home with some of the expensive ammo (.50 BMG). When the BGC went thru, we met again at the FFL, I got the rest of the $, gave him the rifle and the rest of the ammo. I did not insist on keeping any $, he offered.

 

[Buckeyeguy98]

Guys fuqyeahammo is the wrong guy, so sorry got my people mixed up...untagged him kindly.

 

[Koda]

"Theoretically", Oregon does not have a registration (except for the OSP, which has been busted twice and promised twice they woudl destroy the information. Then there was Kate Brown's unconstitutional (Oregon Constitution) executive order requiring them to keep the previous illegal information for several years.

I always thought the OSP was legally allowed to keep the records up to 5 years.

 

[pdx1]

HEY GUYS I MESSED UP THE CONTACT NAME..... @fuqyeahammo IS NOT THE GUY WHO FLAKED ON ME....SO SORRY TO @fuqyeahammo I got my listing responses mixed up and incorrectly threw him to the wolves....he is all good! PLEASE again @fuqyeahammo is a good guy, his name was tagged by mistake....anger can be blinding!

Good on you for clearing it up, nobody wants to be called a flake unjustly

 

[pogi]

FUBAR'ed all around.

If the firearm was submitted for transfer you should have been paid on the spot and that firearm should be in possession of the FFL, not you.

 

[philcoates]

As an 07 FFL dealer, I make sure the seller gets paid first off. Then I take possession. Seller can go about His business and go home. His/Her business is done. Buyer then gets put thru FICS. Once Background clears, (could be Days, Thanks to pandemic buying) Buyer is notified and gets to pick up Firearm.

 

[ar addict]

If I sell a gun, meet at FFL, buyer inspects, buyer pays me cash, I hand gun to FFL and leave.
If FFL does not want to hold gun during background waiting period, I don't use him.
When I have cash in hand my involvement in transaction is over.
As a FFL, most times this is a easy thing, until the buyer gets denied.
Then I have his gun, that he can't have and I don't want.
My options are buy it or consign it. Then I have to deal with his friends or
relatives trying to buy it for him.
So it gets listed on gunbroker.

 

[The Heretic]

FUBAR'ed all around.

If the firearm was submitted for transfer you should have been paid on the spot and that firearm should be in possession of the FFL, not you.

We've gone around and around with this before.

The FFL never takes, or should never have to take possession of the firearm when both parties (seller & buyer) are present. It simply is not necessary, regardless of how long the BGC takes. Most FFLs do not want the hassle of storing a bunch of firearms while the parties wait for the BGC to complete.

 

[charlesv]

Ok reading in here....im not understanding how failure to pass a background check still somehow forces a sale. Im facing a similar situation with my car, it has to pass inspection or it cant transfer and the buyer wants my assurance he would get his deposit back if it doesnt pass. I said YES because there is no other way. If a gun buyer cant pass a background check for any reason, there is no sale. So get cash first and to heck with the buyer and he is stuck? Thats worse than unfair. We think we should know that we would pass a check with no problem but in truth we never know until it happens. Between purchases something could have popped up in the record that we dont know about so there cant be a sale and its not our fault. Its not like we can check all their info sources before we commit to a purchase. I assume that when I am a buyer or have one, everyone is starting off in good faith but sometimes things go wrong. Naturally I dont want to grab someones money if they cant complete the purchase because of the checking. "Flaking out" seems like something else but in the end its the same result. Its "no sale, start all over" which i think comes with the territory. Ive had buyers no-show on me because they changed their mind or something and thats life. He doesnt owe me the money for the gun. That said, there is also no reason to believe that a buyer would look for the money to pay a seller with until after a transfer. The buyer should put the cash on the counter because when I hear ka-ching out of the background check machine my part is done and im picking up the cash and leaving.

Maybe the entirety of the thread is a lesson. Think about things that can go wrong and map out a whole transaction. Assuming both parties show up on time, talk to the dealer first and discuss the possibility of a change of mind or check failure. Get the part out of the way first that releases you and commits the other party. Re-arrange the steps to reduce problems for everyone including the dealer.

 

[AMT]

He got put in the waiting que for the background check but he filled out paperwork and we were waiting to go back in to the shop.

Go tell the FFL where the paperwork is being done that the guy backed out. The FFL should be able to cancel the process.

Talk to the FFL and tell them your situation. They should be able to help and/or give you some answers. If they don't, don't ever use tha FFL again.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Please do not "call out" the other person if they are a forum member.
Leave detailed feedback under that option.

Calling out someone can mean :
That someone else is "called out" as a mistake , as what happened here in this thread...
Or as more often the case :
Turns into a "You did this...No I didn't" less than excellent bash fest.
Andy