Fish antibiotics...

[wired]

I have been prescribed tetracycline several times. If it ends in "cillin" the chances are I'll blow up like a puffer fish and my blood pressure will go off the charts. Pounding head, red skin, instant fever etc. Amoxicillin is about the only one I can handle without issue. Tetracycline makes my ears ring but thats about it. Penicillin puts me in the grave so I'm avoiding that one..

Last time I took cipro before I had a few teeth removed for implants I vomited blood for 2 days.

Americillin is often used in chicken feed . Took me years to figure out what was happening to me after they started using it in feed in the mid 90's. Felt like I was on fire after eating chicken 80% of the time. They have curtailled its use for the most part but its still used in Turkey raising. I have been hospitalized for anaphylaxis after consuming turkey because of trace Americillin.

 

[Libertas7]

If your looking for something to store you could check out colloidal silver and/or iodine(Lugol's). I've have good results with both. Just don't take too much iodine at once!

 

[Ryanb56]

I would echo what Bolus said and add a little to it. To successfully treat an infection you need an antibiotic and dose that are effective against the type of bacteria causing the infection AND that will reach the infected part of the body AND will not cause side effects or reactions that are worse than the infection itself. If I were going to store antibiotics, I would definitely also keep with them a guide to their safe and effective use, even if only to be used in a "it's SHTF and I'm going to die" scenario.

 

[AMProducts]

I see this kinda stuff go around every now and then... I'm generally pretty anti-anti-biotics I fully realize there are times when you need them, but most of the time you don't.

When you need antibiotics:

1) when you have an infected wound that's starting to go septic
2) When that infection has spread to the blood
3) UTIs
4) Severe ENT infections

Generally, my preference for ABx goes like this:

1) Sulfa drugs (sulfamethazole, sulfafurazole)
2) Floroquinilones - Levaquin, Ciprofloxacin

These are the last resort, and should only be used when there are obvious signs of bacterial infection. Personally, I would reserve them specifically for people who were wounded, or if other treatments failed in people who are "sick". The side-effects from these drugs can last for months, and can also kill you.

I chose these drugs because 1: they are effective for gram positive and gram negative bacteria. The quinilones are a new class, and have less resistance, but that's changing rapidly. The Sulfas have a long history, but are still effective against a number of common infections. 2: In general, these drugs don't expire as quickly or break down into toxic chemicals.

If you are going to use them, buy a copy of the PDR, follow dosing guidelines, or you're going to make everything worse.

Use alternate forms of treatment first, I have used saline nasal sprays to relieve and help cure sinus infections. I generally find topical treatment, cleaning and saline to be superior for minor infections from wounds than taking preventative ABx.

Also, before you get around to stocking a lot of ABx, make sure you have a lifetime supply of toothpaste locked in, because chances are quite good that you will be killed by a tooth infection if you fail to deal with this, and ABx may or may not help for this.

To sum up, I largely agree with @bolus on this. ABx is really just a fringe prep. If you have a remote place that you're living at full time, body armor, a safe full of guns, years worth of food, a lifetime supply of ammo, and a working farm/ranch to feed you for life, ABx are unlikely to do you any good, because A: Something else is probably going to kill you first B: once you're into stockpiling ABx, you're locked into a lot of stockpile management. This would be like storing eggs as a prep. You can store eggs under the right circumstances for several months, however if you want to be sure you always have X months worth of eggs, you need to constantly rotate them out, keep track of which eggs are what, and which eggs are where, and how old each egg is. You're going to be devoting a lot of time to it.

If the rest of your house is in order, go nuts, if not, make changes so it is.

 

[HB of CJ]

Sometimes the best cure is to just rest up, hydrate and eat what you can or want. Let Mother Nature provide the cure. Most of the times you will not die, you will just feel like it. Remember, barfing is good. It just doesn't feel like it. Yikes!

HB, ex RN. I had a hangover election eve morning after.

 

[JeremyK]

I see this kinda stuff go around every now and then... I'm generally pretty anti-anti-biotics I fully realize there are times when you need them, but most of the time you don't.

When you need antibiotics:

1) when you have an infected wound that's starting to go septic
2) When that infection has spread to the blood
3) UTIs
4) Severe ENT infections

Generally, my preference for ABx goes like this:

1) Sulfa drugs (sulfamethazole, sulfafurazole)
2) Floroquinilones - Levaquin, Ciprofloxacin

These are the last resort, and should only be used when there are obvious signs of bacterial infection. Personally, I would reserve them specifically for people who were wounded, or if other treatments failed in people who are "sick". The side-effects from these drugs can last for months, and can also kill you.

I chose these drugs because 1: they are effective for gram positive and gram negative bacteria. The quinilones are a new class, and have less resistance, but that's changing rapidly. The Sulfas have a long history, but are still effective against a number of common infections. 2: In general, these drugs don't expire as quickly or break down into toxic chemicals.

If you are going to use them, buy a copy of the PDR, follow dosing guidelines, or you're going to make everything worse.

Use alternate forms of treatment first, I have used saline nasal sprays to relieve and help cure sinus infections. I generally find topical treatment, cleaning and saline to be superior for minor infections from wounds than taking preventative ABx.

Also, before you get around to stocking a lot of ABx, make sure you have a lifetime supply of toothpaste locked in, because chances are quite good that you will be killed by a tooth infection if you fail to deal with this, and ABx may or may not help for this.

To sum up, I largely agree with @bolus on this. ABx is really just a fringe prep. If you have a remote place that you're living at full time, body armor, a safe full of guns, years worth of food, a lifetime supply of ammo, and a working farm/ranch to feed you for life, ABx are unlikely to do you any good, because A: Something else is probably going to kill you first B: once you're into stockpiling ABx, you're locked into a lot of stockpile management. This would be like storing eggs as a prep. You can store eggs under the right circumstances for several months, however if you want to be sure you always have X months worth of eggs, you need to constantly rotate them out, keep track of which eggs are what, and which eggs are where, and how old each egg is. You're going to be devoting a lot of time to it.

If the rest of your house is in order, go nuts, if not, make changes so it is.

Are the Sulfas and the floroquinilones available over the counter?

 

[bolus]

Are the Sulfas and the floroquinilones available over the counter?

as fish antibiotics yes, as human treatments no as you need a prescription and monitoring physician. Unless you are in India or Mexico.

 

[wired]

Are the Sulfas and the floroquinilones available over the counter?

Bird Sulfa 60 Tablets | eBay

"Fish cin" is the clindamycin equivalent.

Fish Cin (Clindamycin)

And for all your "fish" needs...

Free Shipping on Fish Antibiotics- Fish Mox, Fish Flex, & More!

 

[3MTA3]

If you are going to get them, do so soon. On January 1, 2017 they will no longer be sold over the counter and will require a veterinary prescription for purchase: Drugs Transitioning from Over-the-Counter (OTC) to Prescription (Rx) Status

Also: Best Fish Antibiotics To Stockpile For Doomsday Preppers - TopSurvivalPreps.com.

As noted above, use caution with these. For me these are preps to be stored for a time when there is no medical care and/or there is no supply - last resort for when the alternative is loss of life. Be very certain to fully document when each is appropriate, dosage, and side effects and their treatments.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I just carry a leech in my pocket.
good times

 

[bolus]

Also: Best Fish Antibiotics To Stockpile For Doomsday Preppers - TopSurvivalPreps.com.

I looked those over and a rough estimate is that they are 70-80% accurate recommendations. It says a physician wrote these but some recommendations are wrong and some are only partly correct.

For example, bronchitis is a viral infection and does not respond to antibiotics although they mention in several times. Cipro does treat some bacterial pneumonia's but completely misses atypical pneumonia. Yes cipro can be used for some bacterial diarrhea infections, but unless it is dysentery there is a chance you can make the diarrhea worse using the antibiotics. Amoxicillin for pneumonia would be dumb because of the resistance patterns I've already mentioned. They list cephalexin as a "broad spectrum antiobiotic" not really.

Its also one thing to have antibiotics but also another thing is to know when to use them and what antibiotic to use.

Lets say you are in the wilderness surviving and get flu symptoms (fevers, chills, aches) and some skin lesions that look like this:

Do you take an antibiotic and which one? Do you pick one and guess and perhaps use up an antibiotic that you did not need?

I know you guys are talking about doomsday. All civilization destroyed and no medical services and this is a last resort.

I just want to caution people so they dont think they can just get some of these fish antibiotics, and take them if they get sick on a hunting trip rather than getting proper medical treatment.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Lets say you are in the wilderness surviving and get flu symptoms (fevers, chills, aches) and some skin lesions that look like this:
View attachment 322683

Ice axe in the cranium, duh!

 

[jbett98]

This summer I woke up with some itching on the right side of my back and after a close inspection by my wife, she determined it was a half dollar sized patch of shingles.
Never having this before, I looked it up on the net and then convinced myself to go to the nearby walk in immediate care clinic instead of just toughing it out.
Sure enough it was shingles, so the doc prescribed me an anti viral medicine called Valacyclovir and that stuff just kicked my butt. Three big 500 Mg pills a day for what seemed forever.
Other people that I talked to said that if they knew how bad the side effects were going to be, they would have refused to take it.
The one lasting side effect that I acquired is an itching/tickling sensation in my ears right near the beginning of the ear canals (where you would fit some ear plugs) and mostly in the right ear.

 

[AMProducts]

Its also one thing to have antibiotics but also another thing is to know when to use them and what antibiotic to use.

Lets say you are in the wilderness surviving and get flu symptoms (fevers, chills, aches) and some skin lesions that look like this:
View attachment 322683
Do you take an antibiotic and which one? Do you pick one and guess and perhaps use up an antibiotic that you did not need?

I know you guys are talking about doomsday. All civilization destroyed and no medical services and this is a last resort.

I just want to caution people so they dont think they can just get some of these fish antibiotics, and take them if they get sick on a hunting trip rather than getting proper medical treatment.

Tularemia?

Given my preferences, I would probably go with sulfa, I realize that the tetracyclines have a better history in treating that particular infection, but being broad spectrum, I would expect a semi-decent efficacy, the wound would obviously need to be treated, cleaning regularly with a saline solution, specifically one that will disrupt the isotonic balance, also using hot packs to help kill the bacteria and encourage blood flow. Palative care would probably be fluids and either asprin or ibuprofen to control fever. Plague (yersina pestis) is still common on the west coast, and again the preference is towards doxycycline.

In general, unless you're really living rough, these are less likely to be problems. Even if you're regularly handling dead wildlife, washing your hands frequently, cleaning your tools, and wearing gloves when doing the work is going to be the name of the game.

 

[bolus]

Tularemia?

Given my preferences, I would probably go with sulfa, I realize that the tetracyclines have a better history in treating that particular infection, but being broad spectrum, I would expect a semi-decent efficacy, the wound would obviously need to be treated, cleaning regularly with a saline solution, specifically one that will disrupt the isotonic balance, also using hot packs to help kill the bacteria and encourage blood flow. Palative care would probably be fluids and either asprin or ibuprofen to control fever. Plague (yersina pestis) is still common on the west coast, and again the preference is towards doxycycline.

In general, unless you're really living rough, these are less likely to be problems. Even if you're regularly handling dead wildlife, washing your hands frequently, cleaning your tools, and wearing gloves when doing the work is going to be the name of the game.

Yes it is tularemia lesion. Something I've never seen in practice because I dont have a lot of patients in the wilderness skinning and eating rabbits. But something someone who is surviving might need to do.

Crazy contagious stuff. We have to inform the lab way ahead of time if we are even considering tularemia so they can lock down the whole lab and use very careful precautions even handling a blood sample we would send for culture.

 

[Medic!]

That is a tough one. I have 3 month food storage and water storage at the ready but I have no antibiotics at home. I think my mindset is that if I wanted to be realistically prepared with antibiotics for a situation so bad that I'd never have access to emergency care that I'd need to stock a small pharmacy worth of meds. If I was in that situation I think I'd rather make sure I had a easy way to put myself out of my misery since what ever small supply of fish antibiotics I had would most likely not work. I'd think I'd want a giant dose of morphine at that point instead of an antibiotic.

Pessimistic view but realistic knowing what I know about infection management.

I keep no antibiotics.

I would concentrate on having a ton of clean dressings and using proper wound management.
You will use a bail size bundle of dressings properly treating a large wound.

And although I can stitch a wound. I would be reluctant to do that without access to antibiotics.

If your sick. Even in a SHTF. See a Doctor.
If your not trained on how to perform a certain medical task. Don't do it.
And if the conditions prevent standard follow-up for a given injury. You need to treat things differently. That will require experience on the part of the healer.

There experience on how to facilitate a given outcome. Is gona matter more than all the antibiotics in the world.

Weather that outcome is a full recovery. Or providing comfort as a person passes.

 

[AMProducts]

Yes it is tularemia lesion. Something I've never seen in practice because I dont have a lot of patients in the wilderness skinning and eating rabbits. But something someone who is surviving might need to do.

Crazy contagious stuff. We have to inform the lab way ahead of time if we are even considering tularemia so they can lock down the whole lab and use very careful precautions even handling a blood sample we would send for culture.

It's in my notes about common zoonotic diseases in my area. In general, I handle the results of my hunts rather gingerly, and always wear gloves and cook fully. Tularemia while endemic, I'm not really sure how common it is. In most years, outside the south there's maybe 5-10 cases reported in the PNW, and most often they're a cluster (same animal responsible for most of the cases in the state). Either way, good hygiene to keep away ticks and flies, and careful handling of potentially infected meat are really the best ways to avoid it. I'm pretty hard-core about avoiding tularemia and plague when dealing with any dead animal. Everything dies of something, and often something that killed something is looking for a new place to go.

 

[bolus]

And although I can stitch a wound. I would be reluctant to do that without access to antibiotics.

.

I'd suture if I had a full thickness laceration and no access to medical services. If cleaned most lacerations do not need antibiotics and will do much better in the long run.

I recently cut my thumb on a band saw. The lidocaine block they used in urgent care did not work so I got to experience the sutures without anesthesia. Now I know that I'd be able to suture myself. Its quite painful but doable.

I'd also consider just storing some superglue. (the following is absolutely not recommended) I superglued a laceration I got while driving cross country and I didnt want to have to find an ER. Regular superglue worked but was a pain in the butt to manage.

 

[Camelfilter]

Interestingly enough Tullaremia is on the rise, particularly in the lawn care folks (blowing/cutting thru droppings).

Something to consider even if not handling Rabbits directly after an "SHTF" type event-especially as one might do weeding/gardening when one hadn't before.

A standard dust mask & gloves would prove helpful doing so especially in the dry season. An N95 mask would prove better if droppings were abundant. Good gloves would always be handy, just simply due to the lack of healthcare & the increased risk of a nick/cut getting infected (by the "usual" suspects) & unable to obtain quality care.

 

[Angie]

I am extremely prone to skin infections. I've had cellulitis, twice, along with MRSA, tinea versicolor and some kind necrotizing bacteria that required debridement. I have several different types of antibiotics stocked, but can't get the ones I really may need. Hubs is allergic to sulpha, son is allergic to keflex, so not much of those. Mostly cillins, cipro and doxycycline. Other than the skin, I'm very healthy, got the flu last year for the first time in over 10 years, rarely get colds, no chronic conditions.