Firearms on Tri-Met?

[BlvdKing]

When in doubt NIKE said it best "Just do it" LOL

 

[Redrum]

why anyone would want to open carry is beyond me....esp a CCW holder...not in todays day and age..speaking from a police officers perspective..every liberal drone citizen who sees you is going to call 911 reporting "a crazy man with a gun" in the street, on the train, in the mall or in a park. the police are gonna contact you..you may get guns pointed at you..you may get handcuffed..if you wanna prove a point great..but dont get all upset if this happens...
I dont know you. I dont know if your normal or nuts. all I know is your armed and what the dispatcher tells me..people lie..they make stuff up..they embelish..esp to 911..so the police will get there faster..you may have a gun in your holster..chances are the call to 911 will be that your waving the gun around and yelling..that changes everything in the responding officers minds and how they handle things.
I dont want to jack up a law abiding citizen..so get a CCW and carry your gun concealed. then no one knows your armed including the bad guys unless you want them to know.
I carry a gun everyday at work and its in plain view..I have to always protect my firearm where ever I go..Im trained in how to retain my firearm if someone tries to take it from me and I am constantly thinking that..so much it becomes second nature...by carrying a gun in plain veiw you are putting that gun out there to be taken from you..when your standing at the urinal or in line at the fast food place or sitting on the bus/train.
bad guys are masters at sizing people up and taking advantage of opportunities..if you think that by carrying a gun on your hip no one will try to take it from you..please wake up
but the big thing is...when you carry a gun in plain view you give away your number one advantage..surprise

and I dont go anywhere in the city esp max without a gun and some form of non-leathal weapon..(pepper spray, Kuboton, or the like)

 

[Pukwudji]

Not sure who you're responding to, but again, I'm talking about carrying a rifle purchased at a gun show in a case. If I drive to work on Friday so I can drive to the gun show after work it costs me $17 for parking not counting gas costs from Hillsboro. This really cuts into any savings I might find at the show so I'm trying to maximize my deals.

If I'm carrying a loaded handgun it will be concealed (legally) not open carry. That's just asking to have it taken away by the real crazies that ride mass transit.

-Brian

 

[CharlesAFerg]

Not sure who you're responding to, but again, I'm talking about carrying a rifle purchased at a gun show in a case. If I drive to work on Friday so I can drive to the gun show after work it costs me $17 for parking not counting gas costs from Hillsboro. This really cuts into any savings I might find at the show so I'm trying to maximize my deals.

If I'm carrying a loaded handgun it will be concealed (legally) not open carry. That's just asking to have it taken away by the real crazies that ride mass transit.

-Brian

Where would you put the ammunition when you get to the show? They don't allow loaded firearms in there, and they will kick you out if you don't have a place to secure those rounds.

 

[Keane]

Charles: They just make you remove the mag, and put a zip-tie through the action. THey have no problems with you carrying magazines.

 

[Redrum]

Not sure who you're responding to, but again, I'm talking about carrying a rifle purchased at a gun show in a case. If I drive to work on Friday so I can drive to the gun show after work it costs me $17 for parking not counting gas costs from Hillsboro. This really cuts into any savings I might find at the show so I'm trying to maximize my deals.

If I'm carrying a loaded handgun it will be concealed (legally) not open carry. That's just asking to have it taken away by the real crazies that ride mass transit.

-Brian

sry for the hijack...there were a few responses talking about open carry, I was generally directing it in that direction. I had a guy walk into the Lloyd center mall with a gun on his hip one night..people went crazy calling 911 and the guy couldnt understand what the big deal was..he had a CCW..which goes to show you CCW doesnt automatically equal smart.

I would recommend getting a soft guitar case or a softball bat bag or a tennis raquet case..throw the gun in the box and put it in the bag over your shoulder..or you could get a hard gun case and throw some "music" or "travel" stickers on it..or peace patches on a soft gun case...anything that helps a person "fill in the blank" about whats in the case and directs their attention away from "gun"..plus you'd look just like everyone else and it would be easier to carry.. alot of gun guys who travel now use golf club hard cases and such...less tempting for the bagage handlers to steal

 

[Dresden]

Just keep it concealed and who's going to know. its none of their damn business if i have a glock under my jacket or not.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

Charles: They just make you remove the mag, and put a zip-tie through the action. THey have no problems with you carrying magazines.

Awesome.

 

[OreGunSun]

Do the math -

Gov't Employees - Get paid overtime - to do paperwork - and go to court.

Your Attorney - Your work overtime to pay for his time.

Even a "safe looking" Ruger 10/22 or Daisy red-rider is a Full-Auto machine to your nosy neighbor.

( Sad but this is the day we live in) Proactive OPSEC is better offense than a paying for a defense attorney.

I know that open carry - may be legal - but a LEO can still cite you with a disturbing the peace. Sad that so many LEOs are paranoid of Legal law abiding CHL holders. - (Nevertheless while you can obey the letter of the law - but where the is a will - more than like another law or regulation can be found to charge you. )

I have heard many of the CHL/CCW horror stories - of being pulled over under a "felony stop" - Hand-cuffed face down knee in the back, or back up of four patrol cars and a Sargent show up on scene -


Yet I ask- How many officers have been shot or killed by a CHL holder in OR/WA/CA in the last 20 years.

 

[OreGunSun]

If your younger a Snowboard bag and Boot bag are discrete - Skis and a boot bag for the winter - It is hard to pull off the Golf bag on a cold wet NW winter day.

For travel ( staying in hotels or apartment dwellers or Urbanites ) "Catch - n- release of Course "

A fishing pole bag. With the obligatory- tackle box lures on top - Range gear on the bottom.

 

[ob1]

I actually tried to contact the Tri-Mess ( intentional miss-spell ) Legal Department about this last year. I couldn't get through to anyone that would admit being in the department, but it was obvious that the person I was talking to was being coached by them. She actually stated that she had spoke with someone in Tri-met Legal and that the following was their "policy" : ...... Tri-Met forbids all but Law Enforcement to carry on any of their property, moving or not. This comment was extended to include CHP's.
[/B] When I mentioned that I no longer felt safe having my wife ride on Tri-met due to the recent rash of passengers being assaulted, she went in to a montra about "we cant have everybody carrying guns on our equipment" and then attempted to use the mall shootings and Virginia Tech as justifications for that position.
It was at this point that I realized that I was not going to get anything but a neurotic response from Tri-met and hung up.
Then having no other way to vent, I called the "Lars Larson" show on KXL. Lars confirmed my belief that Tri-met policy cannot trump state law. But where does that leave us ? Filing in court ? .......Lets face it folks, we are headed at warp speed towards a totalitarian state mentality with, " the change ", especially where gun owner rights are concerned. Going public and trying to stir up a hornets nest will probably just make things worse than they already are. For me and mine, you just do what you have to do, trying to " do the right thing " out in the open, with those now in control will just get your time wasted or worse, loose you the few liberties you may still have.
I guess this makes me sound pretty negative, but to me it looks like the rule book has changed.

 

[Redrum]

Do the math -

Gov't Employees - Get paid overtime - to do paperwork - and go to court.

Your Attorney - Your work overtime to pay for his time.

Even a "safe looking" Ruger 10/22 or Daisy red-rider is a Full-Auto machine to your nosy neighbor.

( Sad but this is the day we live in) Proactive OPSEC is better offense than a paying for a defense attorney.

I know that open carry - may be legal - but a LEO can still cite you with a disturbing the peace. Sad that so many LEOs are paranoid of Legal law abiding CHL holders. - (Nevertheless while you can obey the letter of the law - but where the is a will - more than like another law or regulation can be found to charge you. )

I have heard many of the CHL/CCW horror stories - of being pulled over under a "felony stop" - Hand-cuffed face down knee in the back, or back up of four patrol cars and a Sargent show up on scene -


Yet I ask- How many officers have been shot or killed by a CHL holder in OR/WA/CA in the last 20 years.

none in OR/WA that I know of..but alot of officers have died from gun wielding criminals..if you can show me a way to instantly tell the difference I'd be greatful..so would alot of other people I work with.

on any reported call to 911 about "a man with a gun" your gonna get 4 cops and a sgt and mabe more if its a bigger agency...the "suspect" is probably gonna get proned out and handcuffed..its a safety thing....CCW or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

most LEO's are not paranoid of CCW holders..however almost every cop I know is paranoid of flying lead mixed with stupidity.

I have lost count of the number of times Ive dealt with someone who has a CCW...99% of them are normal respectful contacts on both ends.. Ive had CCW holders back me up until other officers arrived...most of my friends are CCW holders and almost all of my extended family is. for the overall the vast majority of CCW holders are honest lawabiding hardworking good people. I was a CCW holder for 10 years before I became a police officer.

I have also had people who have CCWs do absolutely stupid things..like tell me they have a gun and reach for it while Im walking up to them, forget to mention the CCW and forget the fact that they are reaching for a gun in front of a uniformed cop.

or people who are CCW holders and armed at the time I contacted them..not tell me they are carrying and not tell me they have a CCW until after I asked them if they have any weapons on them.

I have stopped CCW holders doing 90mph in a 50mph zone.

I have stopped CCW holders for DUII

I've caught CCW holders in stolen cars and selling drugs...its fairly common in PDX for the gangs to have any member who has a clean criminal record go get a CCW..then he carries the "legal" gun for the gang.

I had a CCW holder once who couldnt figure out how to de-cock his double action revolver after he went outside to "check" on a noise he heard in the back yard..the noise was us with a K-9 tracking a bad guy who just busted thru his fenced yard..I happend to be in front of the house getting ready to go up and knock on the door, to let them know it was the police, just as the guy came outside holding a cocked .357. I told him it was the police, I was in uniform and he insisted on checking the backyard. I had to tell him twice it was us in his yard and he needed t put the gun away..he told me he couldnt make it "unfireable". I had to drop the hammer on the revolver for him. (I also unloaded it and suggested he take a firearms class). and this guy was in his 30s.

Your experiences with CCW holders are most likely similar to my good ones..the probability of a CCW holder doing something bad is very low..unfortunatelty as a police officer I have to operate in the world of possiblities..and thats usually what makes it difficult for the general public.

 

[ob1]

Redrum, as a bonafide local LE Officer, I am sure you are aware that you have the ability to report improper CHL conduct to the issuing office. The sort of stuff you described above I think would at least justify a special review at the Sheriff's office, come renewal time, if not immediately.

Please do us all a favor and identify the "meatballs" when you find them. Thanks

 

[4Freedom]

I had a CCW holder once who couldnt figure out how to de-cock his double action revolver after he went outside to "check" on a noise he heard in the back yard..the noise was us with a K-9 tracking a bad guy who just busted thru his fenced yard..I happend to be in front of the house getting ready to go up and knock on the door, to let them know it was the police, just as the guy came outside holding a cocked .357. I told him it was the police, I was in uniform and he insisted on checking the backyard. I had to tell him twice it was us in his yard and he needed t put the gun away..he told me he couldnt make it "unfireable". I had to drop the hammer on the revolver for him. (I also unloaded it and suggested he take a firearms class). and this guy was in his 30s.

Hi Redrum, I am happy to see a pro-2A officer here on the site from the Portland area. One thing I would like to ask you here is whether you thought the guy coming out of his house with a loaded gun after hearing all types of noises was stupid or whether the fact the hammer of the gun was cocked was stupid?? I mean, I don't know the details exactly, so it all seems a bit vague.

Also, this has been a burning question of mine: How can you possibly tell at night that a person who claims to be a police officer is truly a police officer. I mean this has been one thought that has been scaring me a bit, is what if a gang tries to pull off that they are police officers, just to make you lower your defenses and get the upperhand? I know the chances are slim, but these days gangs have been doing the most unscrupulous things. For example, you mention gangs now roll with a legit member who gets a CCW and appears to be law abiding citizen to help funnel weapons to the other members.

You know, I just couldn't help thinking, if I heard crashing in my backyaard late at night and I had my baby and wife in the house, I don't know if I would want to wait until the bad guy gets into my house. I have heard of several people going outside to scan the area for threats. It does seem a bit dumb that he had the hammer of a DA revolver cocked, which could have easily led to an accident. Also, a person should know how to use whatever firearm they plan to defend themselves with.

Anyway, I would like to know your advice what to do in a situation that would help you identify an officer from a potential criminal? If you heard crashing sound in your backyard at night what would you do?

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the thread, but since we were on the subject.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

I know that open carry - may be legal - but a LEO can still cite you with a disturbing the peace.

Negative. This will not hold up in court unless you were doing something in particular besides carrying legally.

This is a common misconception.



________
For example...

Can I be charged with "brandishing" or "disturbing the peace" if I open carry in PA?

Short answer: Yes, you could be charged with a number of violations by an unknowing LEO. BUT, the charges would not be applicable, per the statutes, for merely open carrying. Commonwealth v. Hawkins 1996 clearly states that open carry, in and of itself, lacking any actual threatening or illegal behavior on the part of the person open carrying, is not grounds for a "stop and ID" by police. As such, open carry can not be anything warranting a "stop and ID" or greater reaction such as detainment or arrest.

Long answer: There is no "brandishing" or "disturbing the peace" law in PA. The most often threatened charges against someone open carrying is "disorderly conduct", and "terroristic threats".

§ 5503. Disorderly conduct.

1. Offense defined. -- A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
1. engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
2. makes unreasonable noise;
3. uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
4. creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.

Though this section does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed per §6109 or exempted by §6106(b) MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition. There are also two cases that that specifically state that a person may carry a firearm openly: Commonwealth v. Ortiz and Commonwealth v. Hawkins.

In summary, with case law to support, OC is legal and does "serve a legitimate purpose of the actor". Therefore OC can not be Disorderly Conduct per the letter of the code itself.

§ 2706. Terroristic threats.

1. Offense defined. A person commits the crime of terroristic threats if the person communicates, either directly or indirectly, a threat to: commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another; cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.
2. Definition. -- As used in this section, the term "communicates" means conveys in person or by written or electronic means, including telephone, electronic mail, Internet, facsimile, telex and similar transmissions.

As with disorderly conduct, this code section has been used to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. "Convey" means to communicate, either orally or by written or electronic means. Because the open carry of firearms is not a communication as defined by this section, it cannot be terroristic threatening.

Also, again, Commonwealth v. Hawkins 1996 clearly states that open carry, in and of itself, lacking any actual threatening or illegal behavior on the part of the person open carrying is not grounds for even a "stop and ID" by police. As such, open carry can not be anything warranting a "stop and ID" or greater reaction such as detainment or arrest.

 

[Redrum]

yes on the CCW revokes..we do it in the cases of gangsters like I mentioned as soon as we can...

the situation with me on the porch it was pretty obvious who I was. the light was on..we made eye contact..the guy was absolutley scared s#%tless from the noise of the badguy breaking the fence..that was the big problem..he made it worse by having a gun he was not familar with and no clue how to handle it...we always try to warn the residents when we are poking around in a yard if its at all possible..nobody wants to get hurt or hurt some legit citizen.

In Oregon you can justifiably use deadly force to protect life but not property..so its something to think about if your investigating a noise in your backyard verses in your house...every situation is different..the best thing usually is to slow down and take your time..think before you act..alot of times just by waiting and listening you will get more information and figure out whats going on or a better course of action.

you also need to understand how stress and adrenilin affect you..if your not exsposed to it on a regular basis then it can really mess up your plan and your ability to function. fine motor skills go out the window when you get a big dose adrenilin for example.

prob the best thing is to develope a plan before hand on what your gonna do..then when and if it happens your not gonna be taking time trying to figure out a plan. you'll all ready have one.

and get a really good flashlite..it makes a world of difference

my dogs always hear stuff before I do..if someone was in my backyard they'd go absolutely bonkers in the house...the motion lights would also go on.


and to keep this thread on track..remember private property is different from public property for open carry..and there are also city codes that restrict open carry.

 

[OreGunSun]

Your experiences with CCW holders are most likely similar to my good ones..the probability of a CCW holder doing something bad is very low..unfortunatelty as a police officer I have to operate in the world of possibilities..and thats usually what makes it difficult for the general public.

I agree that a CCW does not equal innocence or intelligence.

I understand that dealing with "Gangbangers" - that you have an increased exposure to violence.

Redrum:
What exactly should I say if asked that question " Do you have any firearms or weapons on you ?"

The only thing that I can think of that is neutral and not lying or smarting off - "Officer - Is Portland getting that bad ? do you think I need to buy one ? (or should I buy something to protect my family with?)

- Redrum - how would you respond to that response?

The reason - I ask is this ( recent experiences that are troubling)

If you pull me over for example "speeding" and the first question that I am asked is "do you have any firearms?" If I am driving 10 MPH over on the freeway - where is the "reasonable suspicion " that I am about to commit a crime or that I am armed ? If the PC for the stop was simply a minor traffic violation.

If I am approached on the street and asked " Do you have any money or change on you ? " My situational awareness goes from "yellow to red".

While it may be an Officers prerogative to inquire - Say I am legally transporting weapons ( within the scope of ORS) locked in my trunk - I can be in a bad spot - Many things I can do but none of them are really great choices- I can't Lie to you as that is a crime, I don't know you, so I can tell you and that in itself can open a whole can of worms and headache by stating yes I do.

I can tell you it is none of your business, also not a good Idea. - But since I don't know you - my situational awareness also changes.

Yet the question without PC/RS is an intrusion of privacy and my constitutional rights. If my weapon is out of the line sight and their is no prior contact or reasonable suspicion for a verbal "search" to determine if I might be armed. I can be armed - under ORS I can have a Concealed loaded rifle (AK Folder in that Tennis racket bag in public or in my vehicle within reach - without a a CCW permit - Yet if I carry an unloaded Handgun discretely in a box IN a Vehicle ( MAX Train?) without a CCW permit - I could be charged with a Class A misdemeanor under ORS 166.250 ( Go figure)

I haven't had a moving violation in almost 10 years.
Yet I have been stopped and NOT ticketed recently and I was also a passenger in a vehicle that was stopped and ticketed. Yet, in both of these recent interactions with local LEOs. Both Times the very first question out of the officers mouths " Do you have any firearms or weapons...."

Neither of these stop -would have raised any flags - or been cause for alarm - unless business attire during business hours in a un-tinted domestic late model sedan - going a little faster than the flow of traffic in Portland is an indicator for of nefarious criminal activity.

I am not a Pot Head, or Use meth ( I don't use. PERIOD), Me and my wife are former special needs foster parents and CASA volunteers ( so I have familiarity with the "Judaical system" - Judicial yes - but not always just). I am just an Average citizen that pays my taxes and wants to be left alone and seek L,L and - Not hassled. ( Sorry I am venting here not ranting) I know that you have a Job to do and it is not alway pleasant, and most of the time you probably don't get thanked for what you do. I am thankful that you are a Pro 2nd Amendment.

I have no problem with you stopping and ticketing speeders or me if I have violated the law, Yet I do take issues when I see photo radar vans violating the law to ticket speeders by being parked in -" No parking zones" Yellow curbs. In front of fire hydrants, within 75' of the entrance to a Fire station. In order to generate revenue for Municipal courts ( 50-50 split with the State - budget shortfalls is only going to make this worse) I understand speeding to catch a speeder or running a red light in pursuit. Yet breaking the law while anticipating that a violation might take place. Is wrong. While some of the "negative public perception is unfounded - it is that behavior that does drive a wedge and ill-feelings "

I have far greater respect for the Motorcycle officer running radar, - The human contact has far greater impact on traffic enforcement and the arrests for out standing warrants. While photo radar may capture an image - I have never seen it haul a criminal to Jail or keep an impaired drive from killing someone in a MVA.

Nevertheless my point is that Possibilities are not a licenses for violating a person constitutional rights or due process.

While this is not going to change anything. - If I am asked this question again - and again - I have nothing to hide - but don't want to deal the BS -or risk having my firearms fondled or seized - Even though I have nothing to hide and their is nothing illegal about them or how they are stored. I understand if I make a sudden foolish move - I could be shot ( I also keep my reg and insurance over my visor and keep my hands on the steering wheel in sight - and turn my wheels in toward the curb and shut -off my vehicle when I was last stopped). Something that I decide was a good idea to do if I was ever stopped after going on some ride-alongs.

I try to pick and choose my battles - and I know that the side of the road is not the place to challenges the merit or grounds of a stop. Yet, it is always cheaper to avoid ever going to court. - While an AR or AK pistol may be legal locked in your trunk, doesn't mean that LEO's know the law or that you will not have a hassle - just the same as a CCW permit or Class III paperwork will keep you from going to jail or being charged ( Even if your legal - I can site recent issues for both in the NW)

Sorry to Digress, If your my buddy, I have no issue if you want to "inspect" or go with me to punch some holes in some paper with my my weapon. If I don't know you - I don't want you touching my weapon or feeling I don't have a right to say "NO". While I can legally say "no" -doesn't mean it is the prudent thing - but I also feel violated when I am forced to have my weapon inspected - and I am not in a public building that requires me to submit it for inspection under the law.

I respect weapons - I own them first to protect my Family, then myself, then my neighbors then my country.

Thanks for you input - Redrum -

 

[Pukwudji]

Yet I ask- How many officers have been shot or killed by a CHL holder in OR/WA/CA in the last 20 years.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/4.0/GunFacts4-0-Screen.pdf

Myth: People with concealed weapons will commit crimes
Fact: The results for the 30 states that have passed "shall-issue" laws for concealed
carry permits are similar. Here are some specific cases:
State Permits issued Revoked permits % Revoked
Florida 551,000 109 0.02%
Virginia 50,000 0 0.00%
Arizona 63,000 50 0.08%
Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:
• 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
• 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general
public

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit
a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.
Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas – "because
there haven't been Wild West shootouts in the streets".
Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the
criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.
Fact: In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since 1989, you are twice as
likely to be attacked by an alligator than a person with a concealed carry permit.

Myth: The supply of guns is a danger to law enforcement
Fact: The courts kill cops by letting felons out of prison early. Of police killed in the line
of duty:
• 70% are killed by criminals with prior arrest records
• 53% of these criminals have prior convictions
• 22% are on probation when the officer is killed

 

[Monkeyman]

First off, I wish to thank Redrum and OreGunSun for very interesting and thought-provoking posts.

OreGunSun raises some of the same concerns I have. It seems these days that interaction with LEOs starts with a default to "the citizen is a bad guy" and you essentially need to prove your innocence/respectability/desire to live within the law to the LEO. My last few interactions with LEOs (traffic stops due to a newer, faster car, a bad case of leadfoot) have been pretty tense and not a whole lot of respect coming back my way. Let me stop and say here I support LEOs, as I count several LE professionals among my close family and friends. I learned a long time ago that by smarting off or antagonizing a cop you will go to jail or catch a thorough beating (Chicago in the 60s/70s) and I do respect their dedication to a mostly thankless job. My default when interacting with LE is "yes, sir, no, sir," and speak when spoken to. As Chris Rock once put it, "STFU."

That said, I would like to ask Redrum his opinion of LEOs who seem either ignorant of, or disinterested in our state's handgun laws. If I am carrying legally, why should I worry about being arrested or hassled by the police for breaking a law that doesn't exist? Or for being arrested due to a LEO's misinterpretation of a law? Whether it's on Tri-Met or on a college campus, the law is the law, even if the more zealous gun-takers in our government/civic institutions try to trump laws that only the Legislature is empowered to make.

Redrum?

 

[Trlsmn]

Charles: They just make you remove the mag, and put a zip-tie through the action. THey have no problems with you carrying magazines.

Has anyone had actual experience with this? They told me at a show last summer that to get in I would need to store the ammo in my car or put it in the donation jar. I'm just interested in comments from people with actual experience not speculation.