Firearms on Tri-Met?

[Keane]

About 6 months ago I went with a buddy, and all they did was make him put a zip tie through the action. He was able to keep his mags without a problem.

 

[ob1]

Hello Trismn.

The Metro Security guard, (He seems to be at most of the Portland / Vancouver shows) is trying to make a point The old saying " say it rough and they will remember it" applies here. They have been confronted with countless people who have no idea of proper firearm handling. I suppose you cant blame them, I doubt you would appreciate it either if you were constantly presented with loaded, chambered and even cocked firearms.
I've taken the time to hang back in the gun show line to just watch what goes on at the front gun check table. Its shocking to observe just how many boneheads go in there who will hand them a chambered semi-auto, like they are handing a gas station attendant a credit card. ( or worse, stand directly in front of them and fumble with a piece trying to pull back a loaded action while the muzzle is pointed at the poor guard ) I know it would piss me off, and I doubt I would use the composure these guys do.
The simple truth is, while they technically dont have the authority to sieze personal property (ammo / mags ) as security guards, they do have the authority to deny access, as representatives of the property holder. I always go in there with my carry weapon, you just need to remember your good manners and take the ammo / magazine out and lock the action open before you get to the gun check table.

 

[OreGunSun]

In Oregon you can justifiably use deadly force to protect life but not property..so its something to think about if your investigating a noise in your backyard verses in your house...every situation is different..the best thing usually is to slow down and take your time..think before you act..alot of times just by waiting and listening you will get more information and figure out whats going on or a better course of action.

prob the best thing is to develope a plan before hand on what your gonna do..then when and if it happens your not gonna be taking time trying to figure out a plan. you'll all ready have one.

and get a really good flashlite..it makes a world of difference

Deadly force in Defense of property is allowed in Oregon under
ORS 161.219 Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person. Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 §23]

Yes it is something that you have to have established firmly in you mind before the event. What your going to do in the situation. You better hope the shot is fatal. When the police show up - say "NOTHING- PERIOD!" Without an attorney present - consent to no search or waiver of rights.

If you took a life in Self-defense your in no mind set to anwser for your actions. You kill someone in self defense you will go to jail - no matter what you say to the officers.

You could be convicted of Manslaughter or Murder if what you say doesn't match the forensics or ballistics.

Knowing what to do after is as important as knowing what to do during. Do your due diligence - If you own a Firearm for self-defense and are willing to use it - while it is easy to spend money on ammo or firearms. It is worth paying for the 50 minutes to talk with a Criminal defense attorney.
Knowing the Pros/Cons and what to do if you end up in that situation. ( I am not an Attorney - or giving legal advice only suggesting that you get legal advice)

You have Constitutional rights and LEO's will ask you to waive those rights. If you talk after exercising the right to remain silent - you have effectively waived your rights. What you don't say can never ever be used against you.

While you may want to defend yourself to the LEO - A criminal defense attorney will do a far better Job in front of 12 - even more so if you say nothing. An officer is not a judge or a jury. What you say to him at that point will only matter in Court and could send you to prison even if your 100% innocent of murder.

They will find out who the person that you shot is - if they are breaking in to your house - good chance that your not the first person that they choose to burglarize.

Officer involved shootings - think that they talk with without representation?

If the person the you shot is outside your house - Don't waive your right to privacy. Your 3 guns and 2 bricks of .22lr Ammo -becomes an arsenal on the news- surrender the weapon that was used.

Lock up all your ammo ( It should be anyways) - Toss a blanket over the gun safe.
Tell your wife - to not consent or waive your right to privacy or consent to a search - Lock all your rooms. If they need a warrant and have grounds for a search then a judge will give it to them - otherwise if you consent to a search - anything in plain view could haunt you or be used against you.

Have the attorney give you a checklist of what to do in this type of situation and keep it on your fridge or where you can find it.

In this day and age if you shoot someone the odds are already stacked against you - why make your odds any worse.

 

[tonyspdx]

You sure about that last? My understanding is that even with a CHL you still can't open carry in MC. You must carry concealed.

-Brian

Actually the Open Carry ordinace is a Portland, Oregon City and Beaverton thing. You can open carry in MC without a CHP, but if you enter any of the above cities, CHP are requireed to open carry. Gresham, Troutdale, Corbet are apart of MC, but do not require a CHP to open carry.

 

[Pukwudji]

I actually tried to contact the Tri-Mess ( intentional miss-spell ) Legal Department about this last year. I couldn't get through to anyone that would admit being in the department, but it was obvious that the person I was talking to was being coached by them. She actually stated that she had spoke with someone in Tri-met Legal and that the following was their "policy" : ...... Tri-Met forbids all but Law Enforcement to carry on any of their property, moving or not. This comment was extended to include CHP's.
[/B] When I mentioned that I no longer felt safe having my wife ride on Tri-met due to the recent rash of passengers being assaulted, she went in to a montra about "we cant have everybody carrying guns on our equipment" and then attempted to use the mall shootings and Virginia Tech as justifications for that position.
It was at this point that I realized that I was not going to get anything but a neurotic response from Tri-met and hung up.
Then having no other way to vent, I called the "Lars Larson" show on KXL. Lars confirmed my belief that Tri-met policy cannot trump state law. But where does that leave us ? Filing in court ? .......Lets face it folks, we are headed at warp speed towards a totalitarian state mentality with, " the change ", especially where gun owner rights are concerned. Going public and trying to stir up a hornets nest will probably just make things worse than they already are. For me and mine, you just do what you have to do, trying to " do the right thing " out in the open, with those now in control will just get your time wasted or worse, loose you the few liberties you may still have.
I guess this makes me sound pretty negative, but to me it looks like the rule book has changed.

ob1, check earlier in this thread. I posted a letter with a name of one of Tri-Met's legal council. The e-mail I sent in somehow actually landed in the inbox of someone who understands the law and agreed that it is not illegal for a CCW holder to carry a weapon on Tri-Met. Of course wisdom is needed; in my case of wanting to buy a rifle at the Expo center and ride the max a few stops it should be in an enclosed space as not to freak people out.

-B

 

[Trlsmn]

Hello Trismn.

The Metro Security guard, (He seems to be at most of the Portland / Vancouver shows) is trying to make a point The old saying " say it rough and they will remember it" applies here. They have been confronted with countless people who have no idea of proper firearm handling. I suppose you cant blame them, I doubt you would appreciate it either if you were constantly presented with loaded, chambered and even cocked firearms.
I've taken the time to hang back in the gun show line to just watch what goes on at the front gun check table. Its shocking to observe just how many boneheads go in there who will hand them a chambered semi-auto, like they are handing a gas station attendant a credit card. ( or worse, stand directly in front of them and fumble with a piece trying to pull back a loaded action while the muzzle is pointed at the poor guard ) I know it would piss me off, and I doubt I would use the composure these guys do.
The simple truth is, while they technically dont have the authority to sieze personal property (ammo / mags ) as security guards, they do have the authority to deny access, as representatives of the property holder. I always go in there with my carry weapon, you just need to remember your good manners and take the ammo / magazine out and lock the action open before you get to the gun check table.

Thank you ob1

 

[ob1]

Thanks Pukwudji for the reply. Actually I did see your post on the thread. While the reply you received from the Tri-met Counsel member is definitely encouraging, it leaves the door wide open for later denial and statements of "I was mis-quoted". If there is one thing that Tri-met is, it's a political entity. The simple one liner.."sounds like your right" smells alot like a C.Y.A. response to me, crafted to enable the source to back peddle and modify it later when the heat is turned up by higher ups. This statement also stands in the face of the reality that Tri-met spokesmen have repeatedly described a no-tolerance position for civilian firearm possession on Tri-met property.
Only a politician would try to engage in this sort of "have it both ways" approach. There is no, and I expect wont be, a clear written policy from Tri-met on this matter. In the absense of that policy, anyone would be leaving themselves wide open to a world of pain. I dont think that we could say that carrying a copy of that Tri-met reply would in any way protect someone for carrying on Tri-met ([I]as we have already seen someone suggest in this thread).[/I]

 

[Redrum]

A good safe answer to the LEO question "Do you have anything on you thats gonna poke, stick or hurt me?" or the variations

This is just me speaking..its gonna go way off topic and I might rant a little..I cant speak for every LEO out there.

Firstly...most often when I contact someone for whatever reason, I have absolutly no idea who I am dealing with . He could be Charles Manson or the Pope. I have to be ready for Charles Manson and pray I'm meeting the Pope.

I have no advantages. The person I am contacting instantly knows who I am, knows where my gun is, where my ammo is, how much ammo I have, knows what my strong hand is. knows Im carrying 30 extra lbs of gear so I cant run as fast as far, knows Im alone. he knows all this plus the normal things everyone can see. how big I am. how old I am. am I in shape ect...I have to figure out the guy Im contacting on my own..I get very few easy hints and I have seconds or less to do it.

I am playing catch up in a game of life and death..the problem is I dont know if its the" life or death round" or just the "officer I need directions to I-5 round". he does and that round starts when he wants it to.

The laws of Physics are fixed and unbreakable. Action beats Reaction everytime..The nature of the job and the way our system is set up forces me into the reaction arena. You loose in that arena. I have to get out of the reaction arena as soon as I can. Thats why I tell you things like "stay in your car". Thats why I tell you to keep your hands where I can see them. Thats why when we first meet I stay outside of your arms reach and one step away..because if you swing at me, you'll have to take a step to do it and if Im good I'll see that step and hopefully have a chance to react before you can hit me.

It is nothing personal. So if I come off impersonal or cold when first meet remember theres alot going thru my mind.

99 times out of 100 this stuff never happens. but let me tell you, the first time it does you will never forget it. it changes your life. this is not a school yard fight. its a fight for your life. every fight I ever been in as a LEO had at least 2 guns in it. one was on my hip and one was on my ankle.

I have punched people as hard as I possibly could, had them drop and then get up like nothing happend. I have fought with people where my nearest backup was coming from thier bedroom after getting called by my dispatcher on the phone at 3am. I have seen 150 lb people stand up from proned out with 2 200lb officers on their back like it was nothing.

throw into the situation that some people are under the influence of a mind altering substance and others have metal problems... both of which prevent people from thinking rationally or being reasoned with.

and the kicker to all this is you have to be prepared for this to happen at every person contact at any time. All the time keeping a smile on your face and being polite.

evaluating people is the hardest skill for a cop to learn. some officers never get it down. there are no second chances, you make a mistake and someone gets hurt. Its an ongoing process and a perishable skill.

with all this in mind here are some answers I used before I was a cop. I had a CCW for 8 years and carried every day in 3 different states.....

Remember to be polite, honest and specific. Those 3 things alone for me are major factors

I would reply something along the following if your carrying a gun:

" Officer, I have a pistol on my right hip and a CCW permit in my wallet. tell me what you want me to do"

if your not carrying:

" I dont have anything. I do have my CCW in wallet next to my ID"

If you have a knife..add in the knife..tell him where it is

When I run you on the computer, Im gonna find out you have a CCW..if you didnt tell me about it when we first met, then Im gonna wonder why didnt he tell me? now I have to wonder if you have the gun on you or not. see where this can go....

If its a traffic stop I may have already run your plate. In which case I will know that you have a CCW when I first walk up to the car. I may ask you to see if your armed and to see if you are gonna be honest with me to determine if Im gonna issue you a ticket or a warning.

put yourself in my shoes..wouldn't you want to know if the guy you were talking to was a criminal or someone who had a clean record, was law abiding and concerned about personel and public safety?

I am not saying give up your rights or the ability to exercise them. All I'm saying is be polite about it. I try to treat everyone with respect and the way I would want to be treated If I was on the other end...I adjust that based on the way they treat me back.

but for heavens sake learn your rights before you start telling me them. it is not my job to tell you your rights past Miranda. I payed attention in history class. I took constutional law in college, I read the internet, I study.

On my wall is a certificate that I signed. I am looking at it right now. I held up my hand and swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. It hangs next to a copy of said constitution. I dont take that as a joke. I believe that the only thing a man has that truely his own is his honor. no one can take that away from you. you can only give it up. call it corny or stupid or old fashion I dont care. Its how I was raised and its one of my core beliefs.

If I enter your personal space and put hands on you or go into your pockets without your consent. Its because I have a legal reason to do it and I know what it is. I am betting my job, my freedom, my kids college and everything Ive worked for in my life on that.

I hate to be lied to. I get lied to ALL the time. Criminals are liars by nature. I am an expert at catching a liar. most of my descisions on minor infractions are based on honesty.

dont mistake any of the stuff in here as whining or complaining

Most all the cops I know operate this way. most people in society do too.

If your a Adam Henry to the girl at the phone company because your internet isnt working..chances are pretty good your internets gonna be down for a while.

Piss off your waitress and send your food back..enjoy the boogers

thats how life works


and just for the record.

I hate photo radar too

 

[cliff987]

...Redrum

On my wall is a certificate that I signed. I am looking at it right now. I held up my hand and swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. It hangs next to a copy of said constitution. I dont take that as a joke. I believe that the only thing a man has that truely his own is his honor. no one can take that away from you. you can only give it up. call it corny or stupid or old fashion I dont care. Its how I was raised and its one of my core beliefs.

If only more of us truly believed and felt this way ...

 

[deen_ad]

or people who are CCW holders and armed at the time I contacted them..not tell me they are carrying and not tell me they have a CCW until after I asked them if they have any weapons on them.

I didn't realize OR had a law requiring people to tell a LEO that they were armed? WA doesn't I know.

 

[drew]

I didn't realize OR had a law requiring people to tell a LEO that they were armed? WA doesn't I know.

There's no such law in OR.

Oregon Firearms Federation | FAQ's. A Gun Owner's Guide In The Beaver State

I have been told that if I am stopped by a police officer on a routine traffic stop I MUST immediately tell him that I have a CHL and a gun. Is this true?

No. There is no law, statute, administrative rule or ordinance that requires this. Many "instructors" tell their students there is, or that it would be a "courtesy." But it is NOT required. In fact, we have heard from many people who DID tell police who stopped them that they had a CHL and found themselves dealing with very hostile cops who considered it a threatening gesture. ( Some states, like Ohio DO require this. In fact in Ohio it's a felony not to. Just plain nuts.)

However, most police don't know what the law is and many of them believe, mistakenly, that you must tell them. Those police are wrong. To hear two Portland police officers discuss this (right before the first officer on the audio told a person who he stopped that he was going to have his license revoked) click here. The two officers on this audio don't know what they are talking about. But the the first cop says that the person who he stopped gave him "a lot of lip." That's because the person he stopped knew more about the law than the cop did.

 

[deen_ad]

There's no such law in OR.

Oregon Firearms Federation | FAQ's. A Gun Owner's Guide In The Beaver State

I knew there wasn't, just trying to get others in on it!!

 

[503glock]

I would never think of riding a bus or max without some sort of gun or weapon on me[/QUOTE

I agree if there was ever a place you should carry this would be it.

 

[jvbutter]

I know that open carry - may be legal - but a LEO can still cite you with a disturbing the peace. Sad that so many LEOs are paranoid of Legal law abiding CHL holders. - (Nevertheless while you can obey the letter of the law - but where the is a will - more than like another law or regulation can be found to charge you. )

exactly why I don't push the law at times... Yes we may be right and lawful in our actions, but piss off the cop proving him wrong, and he will find something to nail you on. Slim chance we are 100% within the law.

There's no such law in OR.

Oregon Firearms Federation | FAQ's. A Gun Owner's Guide In The Beaver State

While this is true, why create a surprise for the officer, he has hard enough job as he is stopping my car with tinted windows, on a dark night... Nothing to hide, nothing to worry.

 

[darkminstrel]

I once had to go to my FFL via Tri-Met. Took along a soft sided guitar case. Damn rifle barely fit, but only one guy had any clue what was inside.

 

[StacattoP]

why anyone would want to open carry is beyond me....esp a CCW holder...not in todays day and age..speaking from a police officers perspective..every liberal drone citizen who sees you is going to call 911 reporting "a crazy man with a gun" in the street, on the train, in the mall or in a park. the police are gonna contact you..you may get guns pointed at you..you may get handcuffed..if you wanna prove a point great..but dont get all upset if this happens...
I dont know you. I dont know if your normal or nuts. all I know is your armed and what the dispatcher tells me..people lie..they make stuff up..they embelish..esp to 911..so the police will get there faster..you may have a gun in your holster..chances are the call to 911 will be that your waving the gun around and yelling..that changes everything in the responding officers minds and how they handle things.
I dont want to jack up a law abiding citizen..so get a CCW and carry your gun concealed. then no one knows your armed including the bad guys unless you want them to know.
I carry a gun everyday at work and its in plain view..I have to always protect my firearm where ever I go..Im trained in how to retain my firearm if someone tries to take it from me and I am constantly thinking that..so much it becomes second nature...by carrying a gun in plain veiw you are putting that gun out there to be taken from you..when your standing at the urinal or in line at the fast food place or sitting on the bus/train.
bad guys are masters at sizing people up and taking advantage of opportunities..if you think that by carrying a gun on your hip no one will try to take it from you..please wake up
but the big thing is...when you carry a gun in plain view you give away your number one advantage..surprise

and I dont go anywhere in the city esp max without a gun and some form of non-leathal weapon..(pepper spray, Kuboton, or the like)

Basically it's not our worry if we're open carrying and we have a permit to do so you're not breaking any laws so just because you're causing them an inconvenience doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong or that you shouldn't be doing it everybody has the right to do what they want to do but there is consequences but just simply stating that you don't know why anybody would open carry I don't think you tried it yet I live in one of the bad parts of Gresham and I open carry every night on my way home from work every time the sun's out every time I go to a convenience store now the thing is you got to have a retention holster that's the only concern I have with open carry but other than that it's not our issue with something that they have to deal with

 

[Slobray]

Basically it's not our worry if we're open carrying and we have a permit to do so you're not breaking any laws so just because you're causing them an inconvenience doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong or that you shouldn't be doing it everybody has the right to do what they want to do but there is consequences but just simply stating that you don't know why anybody would open carry I don't think you tried it yet I live in one of the bad parts of Gresham and I open carry every night on my way home from work every time the sun's out every time I go to a convenience store now the thing is you got to have a retention holster that's the only concern I have with open carry but other than that it's not our issue with something that they have to deal with

5 years, 8 months, 23 days...........

Congratulations.





Ray

 

[Tony617]

5 years, 8 months, 23 days...........

Congratulations.

View attachment 368072



Ray

Maybe the system administrator of NWF make this topic read-only from now on.