Defensive use of firearm in Vancouver, Wa. Cops were called and never showed up.

[Flopsweat]

In this situation the perp was driving away by the time the dude had his gun drawn and was driving away.

Example, if someone points a gun at you and you because they don't like you but you left your gun in your car, but he doesn't shoot you and put his gun away, legally, you can't go to your car, get your gun then come back and shoot them. Of course you could, it's just not legal.

I disagree. Go to 1:02 in the video. The driver has pointed the rifle away, maybe put it down, but the car is not moving when the victim stands back up.

 

[ScatPackLife]

I disagree. Go to 1:02 in the video. The driver has pointed the rifle away, maybe put it down, but the car is not moving when the victim stands back up.

When the guy stood up the rifle was away and the threat was gone, dude was in the process of driving away, took him a few seconds to put the rifle down, put the car in drive, then foot on gas pedal. I don't think the victim would have stood up if the guy didn't put the rifle away, you can see him looking through the windows of the parked car so he knew the rifle was down. I think he saw the rifle go away and then stood up. A second or two after he stands up the car starts moving.

I just watched the video again and the Vic stood up and pointed his gun at the perp while the perp was shifting into drive. "At no point in time where they both pointing guns at each other" is the point I'm trying to make. No Mexican stand off. Picture below is proof.

Right here at 1:30 the rifle was just put away and rifle guy is shifting gears and pistol guy has not stood up yet. Half a second later he stands and points his pistol at him.



So the car is not moving but rifle guy is in the process of driving away. That's what I meant. Your kinda splitting hairs. Yes the car wasn't moving but he was in process of driving away.

 

[Flopsweat]

When the guy stood up the rifle was away and the threat was gone, dude was in the process of driving away, took him a few seconds to put the rifle down, put the car in drive, then foot on gas pedal. I don't think the victim would have stood up if the guy didn't put the rifle away, you can see him looking through the windows of the parked car so he knew the rifle was down. I think he saw the rifle go away and then stood up. A second or two after he stands up the car starts moving.

I just watched the video again and the Vic stood up and pointed his gun at the perp while the perp was shifting into drive. "At no point in time where they both pointing guns at each other" is the point I'm trying to make. No Mexican stand off. Picture below is proof.

Right here at 1:30 the rifle was just put away and rifle guy is shifting gears and pistol guy has not stood up yet. Half a second later he stands and points his pistol at him.

View attachment 1139617

So the car is not moving but rifle guy is in the process of driving away. That's what I meant. Your kinda splitting hairs. Yes the car wasn't moving but he was in process of driving away.

If we're going down that rabbit hole, you actually said "In this situation the perp was driving away by the time the dude had his gun drawn". That would be at 1:00 in the video.

Personally, I wouldn't have stayed put. I'd have moved. If I felt I could sneak a couple of cars down and stay fully out of sight, I'd to that. Otherwise, I'd sneak along the side of the car, and probably have to pop up for fear he'd get out on foot. By then he might have driven away anyway.

 

[WillametteWill]

Just two things from me.
1) Are we really in a world that even when gun play is involved police don't show up? (Sadly, that is apparently a rhetorical question.)
2) Clint Smith talks about how most US Service Members in Vietnam shot and killed were struck from the high chest up into the head. Popping up over the top of something is our natural reaction. Peeking out from a side usually affords move cover but isn't something we are likely to do unless we practice doing it.

 

[Alexx1401]

In this situation the perp was driving away by the time the dude had his gun drawn and was driving away.

Example, if someone points a gun at you and you because they don't like you but you left your gun in your car, but he doesn't shoot you and put his gun away, legally, you can't go to your car, get your gun then come back and shoot them. Of course you could, it's just not legal.

Anyone who knows me knows I have warned multiple times about firing on some scum who is trying to get away from you.The Heritic said he would not have hid, he would have drilled the clown. I did not see him say the guy should pop up and fire on the fleeing vehicle. The kid who drew showed amazing calm that as a new gun owner he handled it as well. MANY old time gun owners would have handled this very poorly as is seen often. The clown in the car thinks showing his gun makes him tough. People that stupid seldom suddenly learn. If he keeps doing this he is pushing his luck. Next time he pulls this the person who draws may not be carrying empty chamber and may well draw and fire on him. I will shed no tears for him if this happens. If some gun owner fires on him as he is driving away and ends up in trouble? I will shed no tears for them either. Stupidity should be painful. Too often its not so people do not learn.

 

[Alexx1401]

If we're going down that rabbit hole, you actually said "In this situation the perp was driving away by the time the dude had his gun drawn". That would be at 1:00 in the video.

Personally, I wouldn't have stayed put. I'd have moved. If I felt I could sneak a couple of cars down and stay fully out of sight, I'd to that. Otherwise, I'd sneak along the side of the car, and probably have to pop up for fear he'd get out on foot. By then he might have driven away anyway.

The last time this exact thing happened to me that is what I did. I had a row of vehicles between me and the vehicle that drew on me. I moved a few and was looking through the window of one while on the phone with 911. If he had exited his vehicle to come after me I would have drilled him. Difference being I have been doing this longer that the kid in the video has been alive. For a newbie he impressed me how well he did. MANY old timers would not have done anything close to that well. The guy just needs to get some range time now and learn to be able to carry round in chamber but he is off to a great start. He may want to think about carry while drinking too but, again he handled this like a pro even though he admitted he had been drinking so can't really criticize his there. If the kid was related to me or I even just knew him I would be offering him some free ammo range time with me

 

[The Heretic]

The Heritic said he would not have hid, he would have drilled the clown.

No - I believe I said that I would not stand there pointing my gun at someone who is pointing a gun at me. Hence the reference to a "Mexican standoff". My point was to not wait until someone shoots at you - don't let them get in the first shot. This was in part in reference to another thread about a cat converter thief who was pointing a gun at a house while his partner in crime was stealing the converter from a car, where I said the same thing.

I had some LE training back in the 70s, and one of the exercises was shooting at a screen where a vid was displayed of someone pulling a gun and shooting at you. Passing the exercise meant pulling your gun and shooting the person in the vid before they shot you, and only if they pulled the gun - IIRC (it was about 45 years ago).

 

[AshWilliams]

Considering he was young and new to guns apparently he did an EXCELLENT job there. As guy said I hope he learns to be confident in carry so he is not doing empty chamber. Still a great job by a young guy who also admits he had been drinking. I have LONG said I would bet there are a LOT more of these situations when a gun is played the scum run off that we never hear about.

If I'm drinking all firearms are locked up and I don't carry.

That's just me though. YMMV.

 

[Alexx1401]

No - I believe I said that I would not stand there pointing my gun at someone who is pointing a gun at me. Hence the reference to a "Mexican standoff". My point was to not wait until someone shoots at you - don't let them get in the first shot. This was in part in reference to another thread about a cat converter thief who was pointing a gun at a house while his partner in crime was stealing the converter from a car, where I said the same thing.

I had some LE training back in the 70s, and one of the exercises was shooting at a screen where a vid was displayed of someone pulling a gun and shooting at you. Passing the exercise meant pulling your gun and shooting the person in the vid before they shot you, and only if they pulled the gun - IIRC (it was about 45 years ago).

From what I have seen of you I suspect you would NOT fire on the vehicle as it was driving away was the main point. An amazing number of people who have been around guns for a long time end up doing this. Firing blindly at some scum who is running or driving away. Every time I read another story of a gun owner doing this I cringe wondering where did all those rounds go? Not to mention you also have been using guns longer than this kid has been alive. For as young as he is I am still quite impressed how well he handled himself.

 

[The Heretic]

From what I have seen of you I suspect you would NOT fire on the vehicle as it was driving away was the main point.

That is correct; another part of our training - at least in the classroom, was not firing on a fleeing felon, that the general policy was to not do that and the only possible exception was if we thought the felon was going to imminently harm an innocent person, and even then it was very iffy.

Today it seems like all you have to do to be shot in the back is to run away from a LEO. But if a civilian does that, then they would be crucified.

 

[Flopsweat]

From what I have seen of you I suspect you would NOT fire on the vehicle as it was driving away was the main point. An amazing number of people who have been around guns for a long time end up doing this. Firing blindly at some scum who is running or driving away. Every time I read another story of a gun owner doing this I cringe wondering where did all those rounds go? Not to mention you also have been using guns longer than this kid has been alive. For as young as he is I am still quite impressed how well he handled himself.

I attribute some of it to reaction time. I'm guessing you're aware of the following, but I feel like it should be said for others' benefit. If you practice with rubber guns you will find that a person can turn all the way around in the time it takes you to decide not to shoot or to stop shooting. If the timing is right or you've been caught off guard and are trying to catch up, you can get one or even two shots off after the threat might be technically considered gone. By the time your conscious mind has overridden your instinct for self-defense and focus on hitting the target, well, you've hit the target. This is one reason I'm rather slow to criticize defenders and LEO in exactly that scenario. Worse yet seems to be when multiple people are shooting at the same bad guy. I also recognize that this can't be used as an excuse for poor training or obvious bad decision making.

 

[Alexx1401]

I attribute some of it to reaction time. I'm guessing you're aware of the following, but I feel like it should be said for others' benefit. If you practice with rubber guns you will find that a person can turn all the way around in the time it takes you to decide not to shoot or to stop shooting. If the timing is right or you've been caught off guard and are trying to catch up, you can get one or even two shots off after the threat might be technically considered gone. By the time your conscious mind has overridden your instinct for self-defense and focus on hitting the target, well, you've hit the target. This is one reason I'm rather slow to criticize defenders and LEO in exactly that scenario. Worse yet seems to be when multiple people are shooting at the same bad guy. I also recognize that this can't be used as an excuse for poor training or obvious bad decision making.

When I talk about this I do not mean the scum got hit in the back because he spun just as someone fired. I mean people who literally mag dump on a vehicle trying to get away from them, or at some scum running down the street. It sadly happens too often. One of the best ones was posted here a while back. Woman who had some scum steal her dog she was trying to sell. She is holding an AR pistol over her head firing blindly at the vehicle. Watching it all I could think of was how many of her neighbors found holes in their homes the next day.

 

[Flopsweat]

When I talk about this I do not mean the scum got hit in the back because he spun just as someone fired. I mean people who literally mag dump on a vehicle trying to get away from them, or at some scum running down the street. It sadly happens too often. One of the best ones was posted here a while back. Woman who had some scum steal her dog she was trying to sell. She is holding an AR pistol over her head firing blindly at the vehicle. Watching it all I could think of was how many of her neighbors found holes in their homes the next day.

I saw that one. She had absolutely no idea what she was doing and no regard for the safety of others. If it's the one I think it was, she also should never have let those two in her house in the first place. They had "up to something" written all over them.

 

[Alexx1401]

I saw that one. She had absolutely no idea what she was doing and no regard for the safety of others. If it's the one I think it was, she also should never have let those two in her house in the first place. They had "up to something" written all over them.

There was another one lot too long before that up in this state. Moron opened up on some scum fleeing a break in I think it was. IIRC he ended up hitting some innocent. Every time some moron sends rounds flying like that they are just begging to hit someone they had no intention of hitting. Look at the clown who killed that little kid by opening up on a truck he "thought" had just held him up. It was wrong vehicle but he did kill a little kid for his efforts

 

[Flopsweat]

There was another one lot too long before that up in this state. Moron opened up on some scum fleeing a break in I think it was. IIRC he ended up hitting some innocent. Every time some moron sends rounds flying like that they are just begging to hit someone they had no intention of hitting. Look at the clown who killed that little kid by opening up on a truck he "thought" had just held him up. It was wrong vehicle but he did kill a little kid for his efforts

I saw one where Antifa tried to stop a car and when they drove off, some idiot sprayed the crowd while trying to shoot the car. He shot right across a highway with people along the side of the road. Dropped one of them, everybody's screaming, total pandelarium.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Didn't watch the whole thing only the start. Agree with poster above time stamp shows year 2000. I don't know if it's set wrong or if this is really old video.

Also looks to me he was fiddling with a key (or other small object) prior to the event. Then he places it on ground when kneels to get gun. Later he picks it up again.

 

[wjv]

God only knows how many times this happens every year.

Has happened to me twice in my life. . .
No police involved.

 

[wjv]

Certainly NOTHING wrong with that. The moron who pointed the rifle would get no tears from me if someone dusted him. If he keeps trying to show off like that he probably will do it to the wrong person who will drill him.

I wondered if it was a real rifle or an Airsoft.
How many people keep a real rifle lying on their seat?
Great way to go to jail if a cop stops you for a minor traffic violation.

Just a guess with no evidence to back it up but for some reason I'm thinking it was a Airsoft rifle (or BB gun) and the Azzhat thought he would scare the kid. Then found himself facing a real gun so he had no choice but to run away. Like I said, no evidence. . Just a gut feeling.

It's just people who pull stunts like this often have a history with the police and the criminal justice system and are prohibited from owning real guns.

Normal people just don't drive around with a rifle and then aim it at someone over a perceived verbal slight.

My $0.02

 

[Alexx1401]

I wondered if it was a real rifle or an Airsoft.
How many people keep a real rifle lying on their seat?
Great way to go to jail if a cop stops you for a minor traffic violation.

Just a guess with no evidence to back it up but for some reason I'm thinking it was a Airsoft rifle (or BB gun) and the Azzhat thought he would scare the kid. Then found himself facing a real gun so he had no choice but to run away. Like I said, no evidence. . Just a gut feeling.

It's just people who pull stunts like this often have a history with the police and the criminal justice system and are prohibited from owning real guns.

Normal people just don't drive around with a rifle and then aim it at someone over a perceived verbal slight.

My $0.02

VERY POSSIBLE! A lot of morons use a "non gun" to think they can intimidate. Several get shot for their little game. He may well have had and air or air soft that he had flashed before. This time the person he flashed came up with a gun too. In any case even if its not a "real gun", if he keeps this up he is begging to get shot. This is one of those play stupid games..............

 

[wjv]

That is correct; another part of our training - at least in the classroom, was not firing on a fleeing felon, that the general policy was to not do that and the only possible exception was if we thought the felon was going to imminently harm an innocent person, and even then it was very iffy.

It bugs me when I see the TV cops empy their mags at a fleeing suspect, car, whatever with zero consequence and zero consideration for what's behind the person being shot at. Just holster up and continue on. Where did all those bullets go? Houses? Other cars? Other people? No formal investigation. Nada. . .

Yeah I know it's TV. . . But 80% of the people learn "gun handling" and "defensive shooting" from watching stupid TV shows.