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I can see why the military chooses the cartridges they do. Cost, weight, weapon design, weapon cost, and somewhere way down the line...performance.

What I don't get is why hunters care what the military carries. In every martial bullet diameter, there is a civilian option that is more capable. I can see having some rifles and pistols that shoot common ammo like 9mm or 5.56, but those arent my hunting rifles.

When I choose a hunting cartridge, I will generally make it "mission specific". If shots are going to be 25 to 200 yards, I guess it doesn't matter if you choose Something like a 308. If its 200 to 400 yards or further, why not put more steam behind it?

Ammo is cheaper when you buy NATO stuff. Thats an argument I always hear. But, out of all the crap you buy for a hunt, the ammo is the cheapest! Why lob 175gr matchkings out of a 308 at mule deer accross a canyon (which I dont recommend, but everyone seems to hunt with target bullets these days) when you can use something that takes some of the guesswork out it?

The next thing I hear is "shot placement". I agree. If a 308 has two feet of drop at 400 yards with a 200 yard zero, you're gonna have to hold well over the back or rely on turrets or a BDC. Wouldnt it be easier to place shots by using a cartridge with a 1/3 less drop that lets you hold on hair or just a little daylight over the backline?
 
In all practicality, why does a hunter need to shoot 400 yds? I cannot see clearly at 400 yds...:p

To me, its a reasonable maximum range because most hunting cartridges with a 200 yard zero will get to 400 with 16 to 20 inches of drop. A deer is roughly 12-14 inches from brisket to backline. If your cartridge drops 16 inches, you're only a few inches over the back and youre good.
 
I have harvested many critters over the years and probably only about 10% of them over 200 yds. 50% have been under 100 yds. I hunt some pretty open country also. There has probably not been a shot I could not have made with a 308. The average hunter would be well suited with a 308 or a 30-06 as their only rifle. I am not really impressed by the long range hunting thing. I am impressed with the marksmanship but it is rare you can not get closer for a reasonable shot makeable by mundane calibers like the 308.
 
I have harvested many critters over the years and probably only about 10% of them over 200 yds. 50% have been under 100 yds. I hunt some pretty open country also. There has probably not been a shot I could not have made with a 308. The average hunter would be well suited with a 308 or a 30-06 as their only rifle. I am not really impressed by the long range hunting thing. I am impressed with the marksmanship but it is rare you can not get closer for a reasonable shot makeable by mundane calibers like the 308.

A good example right there. Why shoot a 308 when you can add 12mm more case length and get another 100 to 200 fps by going with a 30-06? In the same model of rifle, this difference in weight between guns might be 2 or 3 oz. probably less.
 
Well if the average joe already had a 308 and shot it well, there is not really a compelling reason for him to get a 30-06. The 308 is capable of harvesting game up to Moose out past the range the average hunter should be shooting. I mention 30-06 because there are many surplus military rifles and sporting rifles chambered in this very capable former military cartridge that are fielded by many. I get where you are coming from but you do not strike me as the average hunter/shooter. I am just saying I can see why many hunters choose the 308 and the 30-06 and do not feel the need for more. Most are not capable of a 400yd shot even with a witherby superduperultramagmulekicker. I know many of my cronies who are capable and have made shots out to 400 plus yards and hunt exclusively with 30-06's.
 
Well if the average joe already had a 308 and shot it well, there is not really a compelling reason for him to get a 30-06. The 308 is capable of harvesting game up to Moose out past the range the average hunter should be shooting. I mention 30-06 because there are many surplus military rifles and sporting rifles chambered in this very capable former military cartridge that are fielded by many. I get where you are coming from but you do not strike me as the average hunter/shooter. I am just saying I can see why many hunters choose the 308 and the 30-06 and do not feel the need for more. Most are not capable of a 400yd shot even with a witherby superduperultramagmulekicker. I know many of my cronies who are capable and have made shots out to 400 plus yards and hunt exclusively with 30-06's.

If its what you got, use it by all means. I like short, light and handy rifles like the Remington Model 7 and 308 is a great choice, especially hunting in timber. I think its a bit better when chambered in 7mm-08 though :D.

But, if I were to put together a do-it-all rifle for big game hunting in the lower 48, it would be a long action cartridge capable of shooting heavier bullets. The 270 is really versatile, shoots flat, and is cheap to shoot. Why not take the extra performance, unless you needed a short rifle?
 
And my discaimer. i hunt mostly with a Kimber Montana in 280ai :cool:. After years of hunting with many different rifles, including some big boomers, i have decided the Kimber has the perfect blend of weight, accuracy, recoil and knockdown power for all my hunting needs.
 
And my discaimer. i hunt mostly with a Kimber Montana in 280ai :cool:. After years of hunting with many different rifles, including some big boomers, i have decided the Kimber has the perfect blend of weight, accuracy, recoil and knockdown power for all my hunting needs.

See, that's what I'm talking about. You wont find a rifle like that in a better all around caliber unless you make the rifle bigger and lose the handling characteristics.
 
Outside of my .54 Hawken rifle the four cartridges that I have the most experience hunting game with are :
.45-70
.30-06
.30WCF
7mm Mauser
Three of those are military , all four if you count National Guard use of the .30WCF....
However , I did not choose them for this reason...

I like the historic aspect of these cartridges...add that to the fact that they have been killing game for over 100 years...what more do I need...?
All four have proven their worth and with the right loads I can take just about any animal in the world with them.

Newer cartridges have come along and sure many are more "effective" on paper or even may make a shot "easier*"...
But for where and what I hunt , the four I mentioned will work just fine...dead is dead after all no matter how fast the bullet got there , how much extra "oomph" the bullet has or how flat it was shot.
*Lots of practice can make certain shots "easier"....

My best advice with a hunting rifle is :

Pick a rifle and cartridge combo , that suits what game you hunt , where you hunt and one that is comfortable for you to shoot and carry.

Practice shooting , a lot... off the bench and under "hunting conditions"
( Bad weather , poor lighting , when you are tired , hot , cold , no rest etc... )

Once you find a load that works for you ...practice with it...

Stick within your abilities as a hunter and a shooter...

I would say that I am more of a get to know yourself and rifle kinda guy more than any specific cartridge , caliber , or even rifle kinda guy.
No matter what rifle or cartridge you use , it ain't worth a damn in the hunting fields , if you can't carry it all day and still make a good hit with it , when it counts.....
Andy
 
Too....free of felonies preventing them from owning firearms....to hone archery type skills?


:s0111:
My comment was too general. I've had bad experiences with the "If its brown it's down" gut shot/leg shot or anywhere on the anatomy hunters who have mocked me for not doing the same.
 
Can you believe this motherbubblegummer had the nerve to laugh at my Ruger American loaded with .308 150gr CoreLokt? So I shot him and ripped his heart out for it... who's laughin' now Bambi, huh? :D

BF0B7C22-3682-4061-856C-43AC86C56496.jpeg
75BF13CE-AF42-4E47-AC0C-303F6974530D.jpeg
 
I might have to take my AR in 260 rem to the Missouri breaks country I hunt in Montana and bust a mule with it. Even though it is just a necked down version of a has been military cartridge, I bet it is up to the task.
 
I might have to take my AR in 260 rem to the Missouri breaks country I hunt in Montana and bust a mule with it. Even though it is just a necked down version of a has been military cartridge, I bet it is up to the task.

Its not the headstamp, its the bullet. If you neck the suck out of a 308, you get cool cartridges like the 243, 25 Souper, 260, and 7mm-08.
 
My comment was too general. I've had bad experiences with the "If its brown it's down" gut shot/leg shot or anywhere on the anatomy hunters who have mocked me for not doing the same.

There is a weird trend these days with archery hunters and their willingness to fling arrows at animals 60 yards away. The worst is when the "hunter" shrugs it off.

Then there is the guy who buys a Dick's rifle/scope package and uses it without zeroing it first.

Idiots come in all seasons.
 

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