Hard hitting cartridge for Elk.

[Captain O]

Pale in comparison to the big Weatherby, this one hits hard enough for me.
30-06 Improved 180gr @ 2900fps for 3360 ft lbs at the muzzle.

View attachment 390411

Ooooooooh! Me likey!

 

[FishnhuntOR]

Pale in comparison to the big Weatherby, this one hits hard enough for me.
30-06 Improved 180gr @ 2900fps for 3360 ft lbs at the muzzle.

View attachment 390411

load specs please.

 

[fredball]

338wm

 

[orygun]

load specs please.

With one exception, the load listed is in the Sierra manual, but use at your own risk. I worked up to these in my rifle.

30-06 Ackley Improved, Which RCBS called a 30-06 Improved 40.
Remington case, Winchester Large Rifle primer, Sierra GameKing 180gr (#2160)
over 62gr of RL22 and seated at 3.260. The COAL is the exception to the manual, which lists 3.340, but I'd be stuffed into the lands.
I thought about having it throated a bit to allow a longer length, but there isn't much engagement between that boat-tailed bullet and the end of the case as it is!
The last 5 shots of this load averaged 2893fps over my Shooting Chrony.

 

[Argonaut]

That I understand, so WHY is this in a Elk Hunting thread???

Most of the conversation is about 100 ya

With one exception, the load listed is in the Sierra manual, but use at your own risk. I worked up to these in my rifle.

30-06 Ackley Improved, Which RCBS called a 30-06 Improved 40.
Remington case, Winchester Large Rifle primer, Sierra GameKing 180gr (#2160)
over 62gr of RL22 and seated at 3.260. The COAL is the exception to the manual, which lists 3.340, but I'd be stuffed into the lands.
I thought about having it throated a bit to allow a longer length, but there isn't much engagement between that boat-tailed bullet and the end of the case as it is!
The last 5 shots of this load averaged 2893fps over my Shooting Chrony.

why would anyone go to all that trouble these days? We have a huge selection of factory rounds that can be loaded hotter or equal to any wildcat in existance. The days of the wildcat (the 40's and 50's) are long past. We used to do lots of things for economy in the old days, 8mm 06 comes to mind.....you could buy good 8mm barrels cheep, the 8mm Mauser rounds were difficult to find so a wildcat worked great. Also how the 35 Whelan started.....but today, the best wildcats have been brought into factory loading and the others have been surpassed.

 

[orygun]

why would anyone go to all that trouble these days? We have a huge selection of factory rounds that can be loaded hotter or equal to any wildcat in existance. The days of the wildcat (the 40's and 50's) are long past.

I respect your opinion, and if talking in terms of sheer practicality, you're correct. Sorta.
My Ruger in 30-06 weighs about 2 pounds less than the one in 300 Win Mag I had, and it has a shorter barrel that I prefer.

However, I like to "play" around with things, be it cars, bikes, trucks or guns.

 

[Argonaut]

I respect your opinion, and if talking in terms of sheer practicality, you're correct. Sorta.
My Ruger in 30-06 weighs about 2 pounds less than the one in 300 Win Mag I had, and it has a shorter barrel that I prefer.

However, I like to "play" around with things, be it cars, bikes, trucks or guns.

Play is fine and understandable but it is a different thing than having an effective hunting round. Take your 06 and a set of 308 Norma Magnum reamers, you are done. A hot 30 cal that works in an 06 length action.

 

[orygun]

Play is fine and understandable but it is a different thing than having an effective hunting round. Take your 06 and a set of 308 Norma Magnum reamers, you are done. A hot 30 cal that works in an 06 length action.

So you're saying the gun I have isn't an effective hunting cartridge?

Also, the bolt face has to be changed for a magnum.

 

[Argonaut]

So you're saying the gun I have isn't an effective hunting cartridge?

Also, the bolt face has to be changed for a magnum.

No, you were saying that it needs improved....and opening a bolt face is simple. A lot more simple than hand crafting every cartridge case.

 

[3MTA3]

So you're saying the gun I have isn't an effective hunting cartridge?

Also, the bolt face has to be changed for a magnum.

If an Ackley isn't good enough for the range you are shooting then it's time for a magnum. That Ackley has a lot going for it including efficiency so you aren't increasing recoil substantially for a small velocity gain.

 

[Argonaut]

My buddy for instance has a new 6.5 cremadore, I have a 6.5X55 steyr manlicher. The guns cartridges are nearly identical in performance, but his ammo costs twice what mine do....most of this stuff is like my grandfather described fishing lures....." most of them catch more fishermen than fish" somebody just wants to sell something.

 

[Argonaut]

You can not have reduced recoil with the same energy bullet. You can change the precived recoil with various techniques but the laws of physics can not be overcome. An action has an opposite and equal reaction.

 

[DeanMk]

Hi, new member here and happened upon this topic. Great discussion!! I personally run the gamut from the 1000 yard cross canyon rifles to my 1895 405 win in my scabbard. That leads into the question that lead me here. I recently acquired an 1895 in 35 Winchester that I would like to try for elk this fall. I found some brass and a set of Redding dies but zero in the way of load data (other than internet of unknown reliability). I loaded some up with 48 grains of IMR 4895 with a 250 gr Hornady and have had several great shooting sessions with it. I would like to experiment with it a bit but would like to have a go at it with older tried and true data. Would anyone out there have an older reference? Thank you.

Here ya go - https://www.google.com/search?q=.35...1.1.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0.3Dml2q_od04

 

[3MTA3]

You can not have reduced recoil with the same energy bullet. You can change the precived recoil with various techniques but the laws of physics can not be overcome. An action has an opposite and equal reaction.

If all the recoil comes from the bullet (equal and opposite reaction) they why does a semiautomatic rifle the same weight have less felt recoil than a bolt action rifle? Also, why would a muzzle device/break that changes the direction of the gasses reduce recoil?

 

[Argonaut]

If all the recoil comes from the bullet (equal and opposite reaction) they why does a semiautomatic rifle the same weight have less felt recoil than a bolt action rifle? Also, why would a muzzle device/break that changes the direction of the gasses reduce recoil?

That is simple, both functions create a small counter balance to the reaction. That is why a muzzle brake is so loud, it blows gas to the rear.

 

[Argonaut]

If there really was a way to cheat physics, we would use it for all sorts of energy producing gadgets. The same as a perpetual motion engine, sounds good.....will never work. Even nuclear power is used to produce steam that powers a turbine to make electricity. Otherwise it would just be heat and not very useful.....so in essence they are just a big steam engine.

 

[3MTA3]

That is simple, both functions create a small counter balance to the reaction. That is why a muzzle brake is so loud, it blows gas to the rear.

Then we agree that gas contributes to the total recoil. Thus a smaller more efficient cartridge that results in the same velocity as a larger less efficient cartridge will have less recoil.

 

[Argonaut]

Then we agree that gas contributes to the total recoil. Thus a smaller more efficient cartridge that results in the same velocity as a larger less efficient cartridge will have less recoil.

No not at all......the definition of a more efficient cartridge is one that does more less powder. That has to do with ratios and that sort of thing. My 117 grains of 3031 in the 378 isn't very efficient. You could load 3 308's with that same powder that might get a job done....just not the same job.

 

[Argonaut]

No not at all......the definition of a more efficient cartridge is one that does more less powder. That has to do with ratios and that sort of thing. My 117 grains of 3031 in the 378 isn't very efficient. You could load 3 308's with that same powder that might get a job done....just not the same job.

Every gass operated semi automatic bleeds a little gas off behind the bullet, slowing the bullets velocity. Not a lot but still takes energy. That is why vented (revolver) hand guns have different ballistics than non vented barrels like a 1911 or Thompson contender. If they directed the vented gas to the rear, it would effect recoil by listening it. There is no Voodoo in it.

 

[DeanMk]

Pale in comparison to the big Weatherby, this one hits hard enough for me.
30-06 Improved 180gr @ 2900fps for 3360 ft lbs at the muzzle.

View attachment 390411

10 ga. slug @ 1462 fps for 3636.....and a 1/2 ft./lbs. at the muzzle.

...of course @ 100 yds. is a different story....



Dean