Beware of buying used guns . Read my nightmare!

[Koda]

Right here:

Where is "off the street" that isn't jail? You didn't say anything about violence, but prohibited people (felons) and trust. How else would you interpret this statement?



Public policy has little to do with whether tempered glass is a good security barrier. Cars, like houses, can be perfectly good places to leave a gun - if the gun is locked in a way that a casual thief can't remove it in 10 seconds.


There is always this striking disconnect in these discussions between people's beliefs about how this "ought to be" and physical reality. Unless you don't believe that theft exists, why argue that you have no responsibility to make some effort to prevent it using materials that are proof against basic tools like rocks.

To clarify I'm referring to violent felons. I'm ok with non violent felons owning guns.

You seem to make a lot of presuppositions to lead into your arguments, Ive never suggested people shouldnt take responsibility. My only position is im against making the crime victim liable for the actions of others. Do you truly feel the best way to reduce gun thefts is to punish the theft victim? How come we didnt pass a law holding the thief accountable for the actions of the person he sells the stolen gun to?

 

[RX-79G]

To clarify I'm referring to violent felons. I'm ok with non violent felons owning guns.

Non-violent felons are the ones engaged in petty theft. How does allowing non-violent felons "on the street" do anything to curb gun theft?

You seem to make a lot of presuppositions to lead into your arguments, Ive never suggested people shouldnt take responsibility. My only position is im against making the crime victim liable for the actions of others. Do you truly feel the best way to reduce gun thefts is to punish the theft victim? How come we didnt pass a law holding the thief accountable for the actions of the person he sells the stolen gun to?

You want it both ways. People aren't responsible, so they often need to be forced to act responsibly by holding them responsible for breaking a law that requires responsible actions. Your philosophy is like saying there shouldn't be tire chain laws, because that punishes drivers for the weather.

However, the way this law works is that you don't have to follow the law. No one will inspect your home, demand a receipt for your safe or anything else. If you can find a way of being responsible another way (including random chance), then you won't have anything to be accountable for. And even if you decide not to comply with the law and lose your gun, you still have the ability to avoid accountability by reporting the theft. That's an extremely low bar of accountability, don't you think?

Why do you feel that is such a burden, when all you have to do is either the right thing, get lucky, or at least report your error - and then you're free and clear???? Especially when we seem to understand dumping guns into the criminal black market is ultimately bad for us in numerous ways.

 

[Koda]

Non-violent felons are the ones engaged in petty theft. How does allowing non-violent felons "on the street" do anything to curb gun theft?


You want it both ways. People aren't responsible, so they often need to be forced to act responsibly by holding them responsible for breaking a law that requires responsible actions. Your philosophy is like saying there shouldn't be tire chain laws, because that punishes drivers for the weather.

However, the way this law works is that you don't have to follow the law. No one will inspect your home, demand a receipt for your safe or anything else. If you can find a way of being responsible another way (including random chance), then you won't have anything to be accountable for. And even if you decide not to comply with the law and lose your gun, you still have the ability to avoid accountability by reporting the theft. That's an extremely low bar of accountability, don't you think?

Why do you feel that is such a burden, when all you have to do is either the right thing, get lucky, or at least report your error - and then you're free and clear???? Especially when we seem to understand dumping guns into the criminal black market is ultimately bad for us in numerous ways.

Seems like stealing guns for the black market is a bit more than "petty theft". Since they are the ones contributing to violent crime maybe up the penalty for them?

What good is your law if it doesn't require one to follow it, doesn't the law require "safe storage" not just a way out of being punished by reporting the theft you have to show it was locked? Regardless, I'm not the one presupposing lawful gun owners arent doing the right thing and being irresponsible, the gun industry is booming with safe sales and lock boxes and there isn't a gun instructor out there that wont tell you to secure your guns. So then what ones are approved and how good are they? How do you secure rifles when traveling? Why is it such a burden for you to support punishing the thief more instead of the victim?
I just cant get behind a law that holds the victim liable.

 

[RX-79G]

Seems like stealing guns for the black market is a bit more than "petty theft". Since they are the ones contributing to violent crime maybe up the penalty for them?

So, you want to treat guns as special and different possessions when it comes to petty theft, but you don't want them treated differently when it comes to ownership?

What good is your law if it doesn't require one to follow it, doesn't the law require "safe storage" not just a way out of being punished by reporting the theft you have to show it was locked?

You're saying that a law has no value unless it severely punishes and has the ability to detect non-compliance. That isn't the purpose of law - as a law abiding person you follow the law regardless of whether you get caught.

For less law abiding people, the penalties only click in once you have done something egregiously wrong, and they have many opportunities to make it right.

And then the real criminals are just getting an add-on charge to go along with whatever they were arrested for in the first place.

Regardless, I'm not the one presupposing lawful gun owners arent doing the right thing and being irresponsible, the gun industry is booming with safe sales and lock boxes and there isn't a gun instructor out there that wont tell you to secure your guns.

46% of stolen guns in PDX are out of cars. Cars are not secure storage areas for guns. How many of those stolen car guns were not owned by lawful gun owners? It isn't presupposing - the evidence is obvious: We often don't do the right thing.

Why is it such a burden for you to support punishing the thief more instead of the victim?

I do. The law is really light on people who did a poor jobs keeping their guns compared to thieves. Do thieves get off scott-free if they just report their crime in 5 days?

I just cant get behind a law that holds the victim liable.

You aren't a victim if you violate a law that only came about due to the broad irresponsibility of your fellows and the problems that result. That's like calling a paralyzed drunk driver a victim.

 

[Koda]

So, you want to treat guns as special and different possessions when it comes to petty theft, but you don't want them treated differently when it comes to ownership?


You're saying that a law has no value unless it severely punishes and has the ability to detect non-compliance. That isn't the purpose of law - as a law abiding person you follow the law regardless of whether you get caught.

For less law abiding people, the penalties only click in once you have done something egregiously wrong, and they have many opportunities to make it right.

And then the real criminals are just getting an add-on charge to go along with whatever they were arrested for in the first place.


46% of stolen guns in PDX are out of cars. Cars are not secure storage areas for guns. How many of those stolen car guns were not owned by lawful gun owners? It isn't presupposing - the evidence is obvious: We often don't do the right thing.


I do. The law is really light on people who did a poor jobs keeping their guns compared to thieves. Do thieves get off scott-free if they just report their crime in 5 days?


You aren't a victim if you violate a law that only came about due to the broad irresponsibility of your fellows and the problems that result. That's like calling a paralyzed drunk driver a victim.

Too many presuppositions and leading questions, is a bit too misleading for me to continue on.

Ill just agree to disagree on the idea of holding crime victims liable for the actions of the criminal.

 

[RX-79G]

Too many presuppositions and leading questions, is a bit too misleading for me to continue on.

Ill just agree to disagree on the idea of holding crime victims liable for the actions of the criminal.

You can keep repeating the word "victim" like a magic incantation, but it doesn't make you one if you can't do the minimum to ensure safe handling of YOUR gun.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Note to self: Do not buy used guns from a pawn shop…

 

[Richo877]

First I was not given a case number or a serial number for the gun the Detective was trying to grab.I have never been in this situation before so I didnt think to ask. He asked me did you buy a named shot gun from named pawn shop

Curious if you got an update today. This whole situation sounds messy and poorly executed. I hope you get to keep your boomstick.

 

[wpeteman]

Curious if you got an update today. This whole situation sounds messy and poorly executed. I hope you get to keep your boomstick.

Update: To make a long story even longer heres todays installment. I met with a Detective at the station. I handed over a pump shot gun that I had purchased in 2020 at a different pawn shop than was referenced when they contacted me last week . Turns out the confusion came from both guns being the same manufacturer and both guns being shot guns. The BATF gal got it straightened out and I was able to keep my more expensive shotgun ... it wasnt the one that came up stolen. Big relief . The pump gun was less expensive but still a painful loss especially after owning it for 2 yrs. The good news is I called the shop it came from and the owner said , get me the case number and a receipt when you turn it in and he will square up with me for the loss. He had not been notified by anyone that this gun had been stolen or he would have called me . I have bought from his shop several times over the years he had always made me a good deal on anything I purchased. So what did I learn in all this drama and trama? First if you get a call, ask for a case number and a serial number . Call the BATF and have them run the serial number ask them to call the local PD that contacted you.The investigater will get the straight scoop . Remember that a gun that doesnt come up stolen may be stolen and just not reported . When it gets reported whoever has the gun will most likely have to turn it in. Buy from a shop that has a good reputation and you might get your money back. Any used gun is subject to be called in at anytime from what I understand if its reported stolen. Thats kind of scary when you think about it.

 

[Richo877]

Update: To make a long story even longer heres todays installment. I met with a Detective at the station. I handed over a pump shot gun that I had purchased in 2020 at a different pawn shop than was referenced when they contacted me last week . Turns out the confusion came from both guns being the same manufacturer and both guns being shot guns. The BATF gal got it straightened out and I was able to keep my more expensive shotgun ... it wasnt the one that came up stolen. Big relief . The pump gun was less expensive but still a painful loss especially after owning it for 2 yrs. The good news is I called the shop it came from and the owner said , get me the case number and a receipt when you turn it in and he will square up with me for the loss. He had not been notified by anyone that this gun had been stolen or he would have called me . I have bought from his shop several times over the years he had always made me a good deal on anything I purchased. So what did I learn in all this drama and trama? First if you get a call, ask for a case number and a serial number . Call the BATF and have them run the serial number ask them to call the local PD that contacted you.The investigater will get the straight scoop . Remember that a gun that doesnt come up stolen may be stolen and just not reported . When it gets reported whoever has the gun will most likely have to turn it in. Buy from a shop that has a good reputation and you might get your money back. Any used gun is subject to be called in at anytime from what I understand if its reported stolen. Thats kind of scary when you think about it.

Sounds like you've been through the wringer with the whole situation. Definitely good to hear you've got your i-s dotted and your t-s crossed. I'm glad you're getting the other shop to cooperate and work with you to get something back. Not a complete horror story after all. Congrats, I suppose, and good luck going forward.
Cheers!

 

[Member 52301]

Update: To make a long story even longer heres todays installment. I met with a Detective at the station. I handed over a pump shot gun that I had purchased in 2020 at a different pawn shop than was referenced when they contacted me last week . Turns out the confusion came from both guns being the same manufacturer and both guns being shot guns. The BATF gal got it straightened out and I was able to keep my more expensive shotgun ... it wasnt the one that came up stolen. Big relief . The pump gun was less expensive but still a painful loss especially after owning it for 2 yrs. The good news is I called the shop it came from and the owner said , get me the case number and a receipt when you turn it in and he will square up with me for the loss. He had not been notified by anyone that this gun had been stolen or he would have called me . I have bought from his shop several times over the years he had always made me a good deal on anything I purchased. So what did I learn in all this drama and trama? First if you get a call, ask for a case number and a serial number . Call the BATF and have them run the serial number ask them to call the local PD that contacted you.The investigater will get the straight scoop . Remember that a gun that doesnt come up stolen may be stolen and just not reported . When it gets reported whoever has the gun will most likely have to turn it in. Buy from a shop that has a good reputation and you might get your money back. Any used gun is subject to be called in at anytime from what I understand if its reported stolen. Thats kind of scary when you think about it.

Thank you for posting this update.

Take care!

Cate

 

[Kristopher Kam]

So at the end of the day... you were loaned a gun for 2yrs...

 

[I594 Sucks]

A yesr ago I bought a used shot gun from a local pawn shop. Paid $800.00 hard earned dollars .At the time it was a alot but I had to have the gun and I had been looking for one and came upon it by chance and bought it. My lucky day...... I thought. Last week I answered a call from a Detective and he ask if I had bought the shot gun and still had it .Yes I did why? He said he was sitting outside my house and needed to pick up the gun as it was reported stolen. I was at work so I made an appointment to meet with him on another day. In the meantime I am trying to understand how this can happen. I bought from a licensed business paid for the gun had all the checks done before I left the shop etc. Looks like I am out $800.00 and the gun. I always tell people that its safe to buy from a local dealer but I found out its not.Anyone been through this ? Any advice welcome especially from legal experts.Thank You Wayne 2064840753 Text or call

Any reputable business would give you your money back, once the theft has been confirmed.

I, also, purchased an $800 scatter gun (a used 8 shot Mossberg 590A1, with the heavy barrel, pistol grip, collapsible stock and ghost ring sights) from a local pawn shop and have complete faith that they would take care of me, if something similar happened.

 

[dcr25060]

I am guessing the problem is that the systems for reporting/tracking stolen guns are not robust - probably not kept up to date, especially when it is a matter of sharing the data between different jurisdictions.

All police agencies have access to NCIC which is the national database for such and similar records. However, it is only as accurate as the local crime data inputs. Delays in getting ser #'s and such into the system aren't uncommon though I think. Not to mention that often enough, people don't realize something been stolen until its way in the wind.....

 

[dcr25060]

Of course they report the firearm stolen - which is a good reason to have an inventory with at least the make/model and serial number - if for no other reason than for an insurance claim.

Its absolutely critical to keep records of your firearms. The serial number is the easiest way to prove it is yours. Photos aren't a bad idea for insurance but not necessary for a theft report. LE recover thousands of stolen gun each year and if you have your original police report and any other supporting documentation (receipts, inventory list, etc) returning it to the rightful owner is pretty straightforward. However....be warned. You will have to go through an OSP BG check before they release the firearm to you. Local LE has no choice in that matter as giving it back constitutes a "transfer". {Don't hate on me, its not my law}

 

[dcr25060]

I am thinking a person could sell a bunch of firearms to some dirtbag for big bucks (no ffl) and then later on report them as stolen. Does the "victim" need to offer proof firearms were stolen?

Pretty much anybody can report anything stolen, not just firearms. It's just how it works. If an investigation reveals evidence of a false report, then there "could" be consequences for that. Simply put, the system give the benefit of the doubt to the "victim" unless evidence to the contrary. This is how insurance scams are done. Mess up your house, break a pane of glass, disappear your jewelry and call the police. The scam does work best with non-serialized items. I'm not sure what the incentive is to falsely report stolen guns though.....being serialized and all...

 

[Olderguy]

I have only purchased on firearm from a pawn shop, as I've always been a little leary of pawn shops- just me, I guess, but before purchasing the one I did buy, I called the local law enforcement agency for the area the pawn shop was located and asked to talk to a detective with the pawn shop detail. The detective did take my call and asked which pawn shop it was. When i told him he said this shop is legit and I should not have a problem. This was years ago and never had any problems from that purchase.

 

[crstrode]

This entire thread should be recognized as a harbinger of things to come. Our overlords can, and will, be coming for what we legally and lawfully possess - the Constitution be damned.

 

[Waynebob]

A yesr ago I bought a used shot gun from a local pawn shop. Paid $800.00 hard earned dollars .At the time it was a alot but I had to have the gun and I had been looking for one and came upon it by chance and bought it. My lucky day...... I thought. Last week I answered a call from a Detective and he ask if I had bought the shot gun and still had it .Yes I did why? He said he was sitting outside my house and needed to pick up the gun as it was reported stolen. I was at work so I made an appointment to meet with him on another day. In the meantime I am trying to understand how this can happen. I bought from a licensed business paid for the gun had all the checks done before I left the shop etc. Looks like I am out $800.00 and the gun. I always tell people that its safe to buy from a local dealer but I found out its not.Anyone been through this ? Any advice welcome especially from legal experts.Thank You Wayne 2064840753 Text or call

This information is a bit dated but.. I was told by a person that worked in a pawn shop here in WA that they were sent a list every month (I think it was per month) of reported stolen firearms, with and without serial numbers. That being said the firearm can be successfully pawned before the list comes out, but is "supposed" to be held and checked when the next list posted. Also there used to be a number of officers that would stop by pawn shops in their beat to also check for stolen firearms, among other items. But OH, that right, they got defunded ! (Idiots) I don't know how relevant this info is today, but I guess that used to be the norm. I do know for a fact that was S.O.P. in California.

 

[Kristopher Kam]

It's hit or miss. At the end of the day it comes down to staffing as well. If the sheriff is short handed there's no guarantee that every report is fully processed or investigated.

They had a guy in WA state selling guns without FFL. The sheriff kept contacting him and he gave bogus stories about selling the guns at out of state pawn shops etc etc and it was never fully investigate or verified for years. Then he sold a gun that was used to kill an officer and it finally hit high profile enough where it was investigated and they put him in proson..

You can report it stolen all day long but until someone manually enters the data or manually searches the database its a ghost.