Beware of buying used guns . Read my nightmare!

[Kristopher Kam]

Thanks for linking that. So it looks like the reporting timeline is a maximum of five days. Otherwise:
"Effective July 1, 2019, a person who fails to securely store a firearm could be charged with a felony if a person who is legally ineligible to possess a firearm uses it to injure or kill themselves or someone else." Nice...

That would be reporting it within 5 days of discovering it stolen?

But yeah just keeping a gun laying out and having it stolen and used to kill someone would open you up to every kind of felony charge and wrongful death civil suits from the family of a victim even IF you reported it stolen 5min after it disappeared

There goes everything you own and garnished wages the rest of your life.

A doctor I did some work for e
here in Vancouver had her .38 revolver stolen. She had only had 1 person visit who could have taken it. Reported it stolen asap... about a year later she had a call from Portland Police that recovered it from a drug bust in Portland. She got it back in perfect condition. This was in 2010.

After hearing about the horror stories of defaced and laser etched guns.. She lucked out

 

[aasbra]

It would be nice if citizens could easily access that database.

Of course, it would also be nice if gun owners stopped making their guns so easy to steal.

If in Oregon, I believe you can call the OSP and ask them to do a stolen weapons check. They ask you if you have the gun in your possession or the address where the gun is (as they will dispatch law enforcement if it is reported stolen) before they take the basic info (Make and SN as I recall).

Info on State website:

Oregon State Police : Firearms Instant Check System (FICS) : Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) : State of Oregon

Firearms Check

www.oregon.gov

I used to do this back years ago before the laws changed requiring FFL transfers on used guns. Now, in OR the FFL transfer process/background check references the database and if it comes back stolen, the FFL holds it and the OSP shows up.

 

[solv3nt]

Whatever it is, it's not a reach-around!

Can you still get those for $10 with inflation?

 

[Richo877]

Can you still get those for $10 with inflation?

Definitely gonna be some inflation alright

 

[wpeteman]

Said much earlier in the thread---
If you purchased it with a credit card you should be able to contest the sale.
Paid Cash? not so much

Paid Cash

 

[DirectDrive]

 

[Stomper]

Can you still get those for $10 with inflation?

That depends if you are fussy about their dental work situation.

 

[Koda]

That depends if you are fussy about their dental work situation.

This is what causes "shrinkflation"....

 

[Stomper]

This is what causes "shrinkflation"....

Aka a "snapback attack".

 

[Koda]

Aka a "snapback attack".

If its that bad then you can still fall back to the reach around....

 

[Lazyfaire]

Paid Cash

I hope you can get your money back in some manner or form. I hope the LGS stands up and makes it right. Stolen items do get repatriated to the original owner. Its what we would all want too.

Give us all an update when you have to give it up and how the LGS responds. Advice abounds and is cheap but I wish you well.

 

[tac556]

Step 1- verify that the reported stolen firearm is actually the same exact gun that you have. NCIC returns hits on serial numbers all the time for the wrong guns when you run checks.

Step 2- get a copy of the police report where it was listed as stolen. This should provide some input into what is going on with it. Plenty of false reports get made, people guess at makes/models, etc. Sometimes it is a civil dispute, one party (say the wife, divorcing the husband) sells it off, and then husband tries to file a report later. Many of these are not valid stolen firearms- which is not known to LE as they only hear one side of the case...

Step 3- if step 1 and 2 make it clear that the gun is legit stolen, then go after costs with the dealer. If the report looks sketchy for any reason, you can dispute ownership, but it might cost more than it is worth.


Understand that in WA there is simply no way for a regular FFL dealer to check serial numbers when taking in or selling a firearm. There is no database they can access. At most if it is a pistol or semi auto rifle going thru a WA background (versus a federal NICS check), it gets defacto registered with the state, and I assume checked via NCIC.

Also firearms never drop out of NCIC. LE agencies are required to verify the gun is still stolen every year.

But it is real easy to report a gun as stolen. No proof of ownership is required. In most states there is zero way to know that the used gun you bought 20 years ago is listed as stolen from who knows where.

And finally- don't confuse gun dealers with pawn shops- although some places are both. Local governments quite often have pawn shop laws, requiring high value items like jewelry and guns to be tracked via a "pawn slip". Typically these are sent to local LE, who checks to see if there have been any similar items stolen recently, and guns are run for stolen. This does not apply to regular firearms dealers- just some pawn shops, depending where they are. The reason is all the stolen stuff coming in thru pawn shops.... once upon a time a crook even tried to pawn a stolen SWAT MP-5 at a PDX area shop....(they aren't the smartest folks.)

 

[Koda]

Understand that in WA there is simply no way for a regular FFL dealer to check serial numbers when taking in or selling a firearm. There is no database they can access.

In Oregon anyone can call the state police and run a free check on any gun.
Why doesnt Wa. State police offer the same thing?

 

[VanceInWA]

That would be reporting it within 5 days of discovering it stolen?

But yeah just keeping a gun laying out and having it stolen and used to kill someone would open you up to every kind of felony charge and wrongful death civil suits from the family of a victim even IF you reported it stolen 5min after it disappeared.

That's where the law in Washington gets more nefarious, and ambiguous. All your guns have to be in "safe storage." In other words, even if you didn't just leave it laying out, but didn't have the gun in what the Washington courts deem to be in "secure storage" and/or the trigger locked, then you are still open to liability. The definition of secure storage is "A locked box, gun safe, or other secure locked storage space that is designed to prevent unauthorized use or discharge of a firearm." The bottom line is that keeping your guns in a locked and secure home is not enough anymore. All your guns have to additionally be in a gun safe (or locked box/space, whatever the hell they meant by that). So again, the weight of this new law is bearing down on legal gun owners instead of thieves, in effect opening the door for legal gun owners who are the victims of theft to themselves be charged as felons. Ain't that lovely?

 

[tac556]

No idea. Probably because they eventually want all firearm transfers to go thru the state instead of directly thru NICS. (Say goodbye to any timely transfers...)

Actually in most states there is no database or phone number for an FFL to call in to check serial numbers. OR only had it (I believe) because they had the private party background process for a while.

Probably some dealers call their local LE, who may or may not have a problem checking serial numbers (ie- not a problem to do it once in a while, but 10-100 a day isn't happening).

Just saying how it is, not how it should be....It is 2022, but a lot of firearms transactions are slow as dirt and antiquated. WA state run pistol and semi rifle approvals run 10-14 days. NFA approvals take a year thru ATF. This stuff is easy to fix, but they don't want to make it better or easier for firearms buyers.

 

[RX-79G]

Thanks for linking that. So it looks like the reporting timeline is a maximum of five days. Otherwise:
"Effective July 1, 2019, a person who fails to securely store a firearm could be charged with a felony if a person who is legally ineligible to possess a firearm uses it to injure or kill themselves or someone else." Nice...

5 days from when you realize it is lost. Not from when it happened.

 

[RX-79G]

OP unknowingly bought stolen goods.
IMO, the burden is on the (professional) seller to make sure that the firearm was clean when he made the purchase.

Sounds like they did. What more could they do then check the database? The gun was reported stolen much later.

 

[RX-79G]

That's where the law in Washington gets more nefarious, and ambiguous. All your guns have to be in "safe storage." In other words, even if you didn't just leave it laying out, but didn't have the gun in what the Washington courts deem to be in "secure storage" and/or the trigger locked, then you are still open to liability. The definition of secure storage is "A locked box, gun safe, or other secure locked storage space that is designed to prevent unauthorized use or discharge of a firearm." The bottom line is that keeping your guns in a locked and secure home is not enough anymore. All your guns have to additionally be in a gun safe (or locked box/space, whatever the hell they meant by that). So again, the weight of this new law is bearing down on legal gun owners instead of thieves, in effect opening the door for legal gun owners who are the victims of theft to themselves be charged as felons. Ain't that lovely?

Nope.

Does Initiative 1639 make me liable if my firearm is stolen and used in a crime?

No, not if you report it as stolen. The new law specifically provides an exemption from the storage requirement for a firearms owner if their firearm is taken from them:

1. Through unlawful entry, and
2. The unauthorized access or theft is reported to law enforcement within five days of the time the owner knew or should have known that the firearm had been taken.

 

[VanceInWA]

Does Initiative 1639 make me liable if my firearm is stolen and used in a crime?

No, not if you report it as stolen. The new law specifically provides an exemption from the storage requirement for a firearms owner if their firearm is taken from them:

1. Through unlawful entry, and
2. The unauthorized access or theft is reported to law enforcement within five days of the time the owner knew or should have known that the firearm had been taken.

Ah, see that's the kicker. "Or should have known that the firearm had been taken." There's a lot of wiggle room there. Here's a scenario. Let's say a theft occurred while I was on vacation. I didn't notice the gun was missing until two months after returning from vacation. If a court deems me to be in violation of "should have known" because it determines I should have noticed the missing gun within five days of returning from vacation, or even 30 days after, then that means I become a felon and suddenly lose ALL my guns (since felons can't own guns). Conceivably that would happen even if I reported a break-in to the police immediately after returning from vacation, but just didn't originally notice a particular gun was missing. Again, it is a pretty way for the state to turn an innocent victim into a felon. Not good.

 

[RX-79G]

Ah, see that's the kicker. "Or should have known that the firearm had been taken." There's a lot of wiggle room there. Here's a scenario. Let's say a theft occurred while I was on vacation. I didn't notice the gun was missing until two months after returning from vacation. If a court deems me to be in violation of "should have known" because it determines I should have noticed the missing gun within five days of returning from vacation, or even 30 days after, then that means I become a felon and suddenly lose ALL my guns (since felons can't own guns). Conceivably that would happen even if I reported a break-in to the police immediately after returning from vacation, but just didn't originally notice a particular gun was missing. Again, it is a pretty way for the state to turn an innocent victim into a felon. Not good.

A court wouldn't make that determination. The DA does, and if the DA thinks the language of the law doesn't perfectly fit your situation, they have a duty not to charge you.

And that's only if the gun was stolen, AND used in a violent crime, AND you didn't have it secured when you went on vacation. And why would you go on vacation with you valuables lying around in your easy-to-break-in-to house?

They are giving you a ton of outs, here.