Poll: Better over all protection 870 or ar-15

[Boats]

The basic question I have about any of this "ammo availability" is, "Where did yours all go?"

Do folks really imagine themselves surviving and thriving through 180-300 round expended fire fights?

 

[Gunner3456]

The basic question I have about any of this "ammo availability" is, "Where did yours all go?"

Do folks really imagine themselves surviving and thriving through 180-300 round expended fire fights?

Venezuela for instance has been in an 8 year total SHTF scenario from an economic collapse which was brought on by government behavior that was almost exactly what our government is doing.

My main answer to your question is that if you have to permanently bug out and survive, you will be able to carry only a limited amount of ammo along with other supplies. After a couple of years you might run low. You would be using that ammo to feed yourself too. At some point you might have to go foraging for ammo. You're far more likely to be able to find some 5.56 than anything else for rifle imho.

 

[Gunner3456]

For instance I don't believe I could ever be attacked by "zombies". At least not the type I see in the movies.

Then you're dead meat. Been nice knowing you.

 

[Gunner3456]

The basic question I have about any of this "ammo availability" is, "Where did yours all go?"

Do folks really imagine themselves surviving and thriving through 180-300 round expended fire fights?

I can sure see myself using that much over an extended period of time. My plan is to bug in, and I can see myself using 1/2 of that early on until I stack up enough bodies to discourage others. You should see my place and my layout. I have a couple of hundred yards at least to sweep from the house, and yes I would kill roving bands at that distance after an apocalypse. No trespassing takes on a whole new meaning if it gets bad enough.

 

[Boats]

Venezuela for instance has been in an 8 year total SHTF scenario from an economic collapse which was brought on by government behavior that was almost exactly what our government is doing.

My main answer to your question is that if you have to permanently bug out and survive, you will be able to carry only a limited amount of ammo along with other supplies. After a couple of years you might run low. You would be using that ammo to feed yourself too. At some point you might have to go foraging for ammo. You're far more likely to be able to find some 5.56 than anything else for rifle imho.

I guess my answer to the ammo problem is called .22lr. I think being currently stocked with ~12k of the stuff will likely outlast even Obamanomics, especially using a CZ 452, but maybe not using the 10/22.

I started buying a brick most weeks five years ago and shoot about half of it in a given year, so I've been running a surplus.

I'd reserve the bigger stuff for more important activities than hunting.

 

[Gunner3456]

I guess my answer to the ammo problem is called .22lr. I think being currently stocked with ~12k of the stuff will likely outlast even Obamanomics, especially using a CZ 452, but maybe not using the 10/22.

I started buying a brick most weeks five years ago and shoot about half of it in a given year, so I've been running a surplus.

I'd reserve the bigger stuff for more important activities than hunting.

THAT'S all the 22lr ammo you have?

So if you're foraging for food you'll carry two rifles? A 22lr or hunting and a battle rifle in case you encounter zombies?

 

[Boats]

THAT'S all the 22lr ammo you have?

So if you're foraging for food you'll carry two rifles? A 22lr or hunting and a battle rifle in case you encounter zombies?

I'm pretty sure that there aren't even 12k edible squirrels in my neck of the woods. Actually, my son is the squirrel hunter.

When encountering zombies, I just yell "CUT! PLACES PEOPLE. LET'S GET THE REDNECK OFF OF THE SET!"

For your roving bands, I have a hard time deciding between .30-06, .308WIN, .270WIN, .303 Brit, 7.5 Swiss, and the three commie rifle rounds, but between them all, there is enough to go golfing.

 

[speelyei]

how many times do we have to go through this?

watch and learn:

flamethrower

 

[Bruce]

Posted by Boats:

"I didn't say a "support system was necessary to keep an AR in action."

What I was getting at is that for a civilian without an armorer, or without cleaning picks, or without a spare parts bin, there are better 'individual" choices out there for a SHTF rifle than the high maintenance AR. There is no serious argument to be made that a DI AR is more maintenance intensive than just about any piston driven semi-auto, even when the piston is in an AR upper.

I was also getting at the fact that the diminutive 5.56 cartridge was adopted for a mutually supporting infantryman's role, not necessarily what one would choose if on his own. In the real world, the AR is decontextualized from its military role and despite its mass appeal, is not the wonder rifle many of its adherents view it as when not massed in a squad."

The M-16/AR-15 weapon system is very low maintenance. Five rounds of 00.00 buck out weigh 20 rounds of 5.56.

Piston drivin ARs are fix for a problem that did not exist.

4 years in the Marines: 0 problems

3 years National Guard: 0 problems

8 years Law Enforcement: 0 problems

Like most weapon systems, operator error is the most common problem to any weapon system.

Bruce.

 

[LCspeedsteel]

No question in my mind: the 870. For this very important reason (too often forgotten by those choosing a home defense weapon):

Fired inside your home, the 870 probably won't kill a neighbor.

absolutely right, and you wont miss if you're in a state of panic. and no, im not saying im inaccurate with my AR15

 

[Burt Gummer]

This thread went way off topic. It is AR15 or 870, given those two options, for home defense (only) ....

Inside the house, or even out a window without hearing protection would mean the end of what is left of my messed up hearing. I would then need to just invite my 'opponent' in to finish me off. Anyone who has tinnitus can explain further.

An expensive solution to the 870 or AR15 equation are .223 Extreme Shock 100 grain sub ammo and a silencer. 1/7 barrel, min 14.5". Just throw together around $2600 for the AR/suppressor and $2.50/round and you are good to go. You can be a little house Rambo; not worry about the ammo going through walls, very little noise.


Of course there are better options, but the choices are 870 or AR-15. If 300 Blk SBR was allowed as an "AR-15" option, even better, as above with 220g subs, $1/round.

The Extreme 100g ammo does have 'expansive fragmentation characteristics' - bad for your attacker, good for your neighbor.

 

[Mark W.]

I vote long barrel pump shotgun with a 10 rd magazine. and true rifle sights.

with #4 buckshot in a 2 3/4" shell it will deliver 27) .25cal round balls to 50 yards with deadly energy easy. that means a full mag of 10) rounds will deliever 270) .24cal round balls weighing 20.7grs

with #00 buckshot in a 2 3/4" shell it will deliever 9) .33cal round lead balls to 50 yards with deadly force That means a full mag of 10 rounds will deliever 90) .33cal round balls weighing 53.8grs.

a AR-15 will deliever 10) 55gr .22cal bullets to 300 yds for the average shooter

So do you want to put 90) rounds on target or 10) 4375grs of lead compared to the AR-15's 550grs.

If you go to slugs you can be throwing 10 ounces of lead to 100 yards with deadly force. Compared to the AR-15s .8 ounces of lead.

Inside the house use Bird shot. a #7 game load will flat mess a bad guy up at the under 20' ranges you would have in a house yet have a hard time exiting the outerwall of a house.

1/2" drywall, vapor barrier,3.5 to 5.5" fiberglass insulation, 7/16" OSB, Vapor barrier, outer siding which could be as hard to penatrate as cement board. Or as easy as Aluminum and vinyl siding. And then the same thing baclwards to enter the neighbors house.

 

[Aero Denezol]

I also voted for the 870, esp for home protection. Open stance, both eyes wide-open... I don't know if those who voted for the AR have Red Dot's or some kind of CQ Scope, but I can't imagine having to square up and acquire the front post when the bad guys are say, in pistol range.

 

[mjbskwim]

I think it really depends on your situation. I live in the middle of a city in a small apartment. I have an AR, but I've come to realize that it wouldn't be as useful as a shotgun (or even a pistol) in most SHTF/self defense situations I might face.

If I lived in the country or the suburbs, my needs would be different.

About 3 pages late for the party,but the situation doesn't really matter.
Most people can hit more with a shotgun.
Most defense distances will be well with in shotgun ranges
They can be intimidating.............. for both ends of the gun
You will rarely need more than the 5-8 rounds a shot gun gives you.Probably not even the 3 shots from your hunting shoty.

If you can afford an AR after you have a shotgun,then buy one.

But my first choice for most situations at home would be a shotgun.

 

[Sun195]

Why not have both?



(come on - nobody posted a Master Key pic in this thread yet??)

I have both AR-15 and 870, and I suppose it would depend on the situation which one I'd choose.

 

[Trailboss]

Just trying to get some other opions. What is better for overall protection Remington 870 Express or Ar-15 doesn't matter the make. Thanks Jason

Jason, there a whole bunch of very knowledgeable guys here and most have some pretty valid points to make. Most will give you an answer based on what is best for them or what is best in their minds based on their past experiences. These recommendations may not be the best for your situation, but only you can decide that. You will need to take many factors into account in deciding the best, but either is better than no weapon. Also, if you can afford to buy the 870 and ammo now versus waiting for a few months to buy the AR, the 870 may be the only choice today. Are you worried about protecting loved ones? Are you familiar with safe handling and teaching your family firearms safety?

Many years ago, when I was starting out with a new family, I had a single shot 12 gauge and couldn't afford much more. It kept us safe as a family and I never felt under-gunned. Today, I have a choice between different firearms but at home my first choice would be an 870.

Something else to consider, make sure your windows and doors are all locked and blocked when possible. Make your home an unattractive target for bad guys. With some precautions along with practice, you and your family should be fine. All the best.

Tb

 

[BANE]

AR15! Suitable for more engagements in just about all situations.
I would want it suppressed to.

 

[soberups]

$585 cmmg bargin barrel ar-15

vs

$275 remington 870 with 18" Non-rifled barrel


870 wins hands down!!!!

Dollar for dollar the 870 is the better investment because with the $$ you save on the 870 you could also purchase a quality handgun or stock up on ammo.

 

[Mr. Ben]

870. But why limit yourself to only one?

Get both!

 

[gunnoob75]

AR15.

5.56 loses velocity after going through walls a -lot- faster than any handgun/buckshot loads.

Repeat - It will not kill your neighbors from inside your home.