BBC reports US liberals buying more guns

[BlackRyder]

It's human nature to cast aspersions on folks that are different from us, from race, to religion to political affiliation, we all do it, but that doesn't make it right. I prefer, as often as I can, to measure the quality of the individual, and judge whether they are a good and decent person, by their own actions. It would be nice if we could get everyone to do that, and that is part of the dream that MLK Jr. himself had.

In my life, I find myself around liberals, Democrats, etc., far more than right-wing conservative types. I would probably classify my personal views as middle right, with a definite conservative bent, but not turning a blind eye to some of the good things that the left stand for, such as certain social programs and assistance, etc. - all within reason and limits, of course. I know of the types of folks you're referring to - the ones that like to go out and riot in downtown PDX over just about any issue, then freely admit they never voted. But I can tell you, I know plenty of hardworking, liberal millenials that would never get involved in such things. Being liberal doesn't mean you're a loser that only lives off the system - yes, you can probably say that a larger percentage of people that live off the government are liberal/Democrat, and the reasons may seem obvious as it is the Democrats that usually seek to further expand such programs. But I know a lot of hardworking, dedicated, trustworthy, intelligent and rational Democrats that take care of themselves and don't look to the government to feed them every day. So, do we ignore them and just focus on the small percentage of rabble-rousers that the media throw up on the screen? It's no more fair to take those folks and say all Democrats are like them than it is to say that the White Nationalists/KKK represent all Republicans/Conservatives - obviously they represent a small fraction, but there are those that try to make it appear that they represent most of us.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of disagreements with liberal/Democrat philosophy, but I have no problem counting them among my friends, family, co-workers, etc. So long as they are kind to me and my beliefs, I'm willing to be kind to them. We can be respectful and still disagree, even strongly. In fact, I do think there is value in being able to talk with those of beliefs that differ from our own. There is much to be learned from those of different backgrounds, different races, different religions - and I believe that spending time with them more often than not helps to bolster our own beliefs.

That said, yes, there are bad Democrats, but we must admit there are bad Republicans too. I go back to what I said earlier, I prefer to judge a person's quality of character by their actions, not by a party affiliation, etc. I get where you're coming from, I've felt the same way myself. I just find as I get older the generalizations haven't really helped me much, so I'm working to overcome that - maybe someday I'll succeed in that goal.

Well said. I personally am more on the liberal side of the political spectrum but have many friends that are on the opposite end of the scale. I consider myself lucky to know people who have different/opposing beliefs to me- I've always hated living in an "echo chamber", like when I was in college and every political/philosophical debate was just a case of preaching to the choir. It gets intellectually stale. I don't care what someone believes and don't begrudge them their worldview, as long as they are respectful of mine, and not a complete bubblegum in their dealings with the world.
I'm going to stray a little off topic but your post brought up the idea of govt programs and assistance, and I'd like to say that my wife and I would not be where we are today were it not for the help we received from the government. I personally would probably be dead- recovery center of King county (the state funded drug rehab program) literally saved my life, as I couldn't afford to go to a private drug treatment center and had no insurance at the time. Thank god I was poor and destitute enough to qualify for that program. A year later my wife and I were sober, living on food stamps, and about to face birth to our son. The state helped us pay for the hospital bills that would have otherwise put is in a massive hole of debt. Now, 5 years later, we are off govt assistance, living a productive and happy life in the suburbs! We paid back all the money we had to pay back, and are slowly building a life for ourselves and our son.
I know that we are an example of the ideal "success story" when it comes to receiving financial help from the state, and that not everyone living on welfare/food stamps has any desire to get off the dole, but we aren't the only ones who have a happy and productive life as the result of government programs. As much as I hate the idea of someone living permanently on the dole, I would feel like a massive hypocrite if I didn't support our govt giving others the same type of hand-up that we received.
Back on topic, most of my gay friends have always been pro-gun, and the idea, as stated in the article, that gays blacks etc.. represent "atypical" gun owners strikes me as lazy reporting by people who don't have a solid grasp of our American ideals.

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

they are all a basket of deplorable's .... irredeemable

drops the mic and exits stage left

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Best Roy Scheider voice : "We're gonna to need a bigger Basket!"
Andy

 

[PaulB47]

For them to call folks like black people and gays "non-traditional" gun owners seems to be extremely stereotypical at best.

How about, "gun owners who don't fit the narrative"?

Gun control is dead. Politicians are always trying to jump in front of every parade, well the parade ain't marching toward gun control any more.

 

[UserNameInUse]

Gun control is not dead. Mark my words. Democrats are right now trying go figure out how to continue their agendas, but get back just enough votes to be back in play.

 

[BlackRyder]

Gun control is not dead. Mark my words. Democrats are right now trying go figure out how to continue their agendas, but get back just enough votes to be back in play.

Unfortunately you are right. I guarantee you we'll see magazine capacity limits and equipment restrictions on the next ballot. Hopefully we'll be able to get the word out about how useless those types of laws are before then....

 

[UserNameInUse]

For the life of me I cannot understand the Democrat infatuation with gun control. If they did everything the same, but left guns alone they would be unbeatable. Watch for gun control efforts to be pushed into the background. Democrats will stop mentioning guns while Bloomberg and others do the work .

 

[DB is Here]

Well said. I personally am more on the liberal side of the political spectrum but have many friends that are on the opposite end of the scale. I consider myself lucky to know people who have different/opposing beliefs to me- I've always hated living in an "echo chamber", like when I was in college and every political/philosophical debate was just a case of preaching to the choir. It gets intellectually stale. I don't care what someone believes and don't begrudge them their worldview, as long as they are respectful of mine, and not a complete bubblegum in their dealings with the world.
I'm going to stray a little off topic but your post brought up the idea of govt programs and assistance, and I'd like to say that my wife and I would not be where we are today were it not for the help we received from the government. I personally would probably be dead- recovery center of King county (the state funded drug rehab program) literally saved my life, as I couldn't afford to go to a private drug treatment center and had no insurance at the time. Thank god I was poor and destitute enough to qualify for that program. A year later my wife and I were sober, living on food stamps, and about to face birth to our son. The state helped us pay for the hospital bills that would have otherwise put is in a massive hole of debt. Now, 5 years later, we are off govt assistance, living a productive and happy life in the suburbs! We paid back all the money we had to pay back, and are slowly building a life for ourselves and our son.
I know that we are an example of the ideal "success story" when it comes to receiving financial help from the state, and that not everyone living on welfare/food stamps has any desire to get off the dole, but we aren't the only ones who have a happy and productive life as the result of government programs. As much as I hate the idea of someone living permanently on the dole, I would feel like a massive hypocrite if I didn't support our govt giving others the same type of hand-up that we received.
Back on topic, most of my gay friends have always been pro-gun, and the idea, as stated in the article, that gays blacks etc.. represent "atypical" gun owners strikes me as lazy reporting by people who don't have a solid grasp of our American ideals.

1) The Government is us, (Tax payer) money as the Government creates, makes nor sells anything.

2) Glad you picked yourself up and made something of yourself...well done.

 

[bolus]

ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record (Form 4473) has been revised
Section A
Question 6: Changed "Gender" to "Sex".
Question 11.e: Added a warning statement regarding marijuana that has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where the transferee/buyer resides.

New people who experience the fun of shooting and our current broken system are inoculated to resist future laws that add more infringements.

Well, that answers my question. How about that progressive ATF for you.

 

[maddog]

Gun control is not dead.

Heck no, it's not dead! It's essential! Gun Control = stance, grip, sight picture, and trigger control! It's fundamental!

 

[BlackRyder]

1) The Government is us, (Tax payer) money as the Government creates, makes nor sells anything.

2) Glad you picked yourself up and made something of yourself...well done.

1.Yes I get that- it's just easier to say "government" than "taxpayer funded assistance programs".
2. Thanks!

 

[PaulB47]

Lara Smith, national spokesperson for the Liberal Gun Club, says her organisation has seen a "huge" rise in enquiries since November's election and a 10% increase in paid members.
...
The club, which has nine chapters and members in all 50 states, aims to provide a forum for people whose political beliefs do not fit the traditional right-wing gun enthusiast stereotype.

...and people who are not anarchists... (I was kicked off their forum, so much for "tolerance"...)

No official figures are kept on US gun ownership. About 35% of American households have a firearm - down from just over half in 1978, according to recent polling

And we all know how accurate polls are...

This was seen by the National Rifle Association, one of Donald Trump's biggest campaign donors

I tried to track this down. Some sites are saying NRA spent a total of $6 million in independent media buys (not donations to the Trump campaign). According to this site:
Summary data for Donald Trump, 2016 cycle
...a total of $353 million was spend targeting Trump, $107 million for Trump and $246 million against him, by all "outside organizations". He got a fair amount from individual contributions but only $85,906 (!) from PACs. Conclusion: more media lies...

Liberals are buying, but the rest of the article is the same old stuff we all expect from the gatekeepers of information...

 

[Alexx1401]

Generally speaking, I think it's a good thing when new folks come into gun ownership. I would hope, perhaps I'm hoping too much, that it would eventually lead to a point where neither major party, Republican or Democrat, would want to touch gun control issues for fear they will incur wrath from their base. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, gun ownership, gun rights, should not be, should never have been, a left/right issue. <snip>
The right to bear arms is a basic American right, so all Americans should be equally concerned with protecting that right.

God bless America, and pass the ammo!!

YES!!! It used to be a LOT of died in the wool Dem's were VERY pro gun. Sadly too many of them blindly followed their party no matter where it went. It was this that made me see the light so to speak. Both parents were SUPER left. They voted strait D ticket and said the world was over when the GOP won. As soon as I started school I could see the constant "crap" created by the party they voted for. They would both scream about stupid regulations and such put in by the people they voted for. They had guns and thought they were great. Decades later Father was still pro gun, yet would vote D. We took to completely avoiding the subject as he knew how I felt. If he made the mistake of saying anything he got mad as he had no response when I would start to point out facts. As more of the left become victims of what they voted for more of them finally begin to see some light. Sadly not enough but, maybe the left has finally gone far enough to wake a few up. I hope at least. I was really worried about this last election. I hope this is a sign of things turning around at least a little.

 

[mjbskwim]

My guess is some will have that clearity moment and will say to themselves.....
OHHHHH that's why they buy so many guns!!!

 

[albin25]

Sorry to burst any Utopian bubbles out there:
- If they'll vote for liberals they're already voting for gun control
- Merely owning a gun doesn't mean you support other people owning guns
- Push comes to shove they'll register their guns and turn in anyone they know that has guns.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm going to stray a little off topic but your post brought up the idea of govt programs and assistance, and I'd like to say that my wife and I would not be where we are today were it not for the help we received from the government. <snip>
.

I and every conservative I know have zero problems with "welfare" and Government "help". The programs were set up for a reason. The "problem" comes where the programs are set up to train people to forever have their hand out. I went back to college one time on Trade Act. A Fed program. Was glad to take it. I had to monthly turn in paper from my College. Showing my GPA and attendance. Can't remember what the min was since my attendance was always 100% and my GPA was a 4.0. Yet every few months I got a letter from my "case worker" saying I had a few days to get in to see her or money would be cut off. I would drive over after school to see WTF she wanted now. Every time it was "what can we do to help you?". It was real hard to say leave me the hell alone. I would smile, listen to her crap, say good bye and go home to do homework. The program was trying to make sure you could not use it and walk away. You were supposed to keep asking for more. I have zero problem with someone using the safety net for that, a net to get them back on track. Where I have a problem is the young guys I see standing outside the grocery store with a sign. Wanting money. When across the street is a day labor joint. Work there that day get paid that day. My kids did some work there after school. One used it to find a great job. When I got out of College one time I went to work for them for a few days till I got a new job. That SCUM standing there with a sign could easily go there too. He would rather I just hand him money I worked for while he also is tapped into everything the welfare has to offer.

 

[Stomper]

I think some of the derision towards more "lefties" (in general) suddenly getting on the 2A band-wagon (since the election) is coming from putting up with DECADES of accusations, mischaracterizations, harassment, insults of being called; "gun nuts", "wannabe murderers", "bullies", "rednecks", "bitter clingers", "cowards", "bigots", even "haters of democracy", etc, etc.

Now that "democracy" hasn't panned out the way "they" want and have lost MASSIVE political (and I dare say social) power, they're ALL about "defending themselves". Although MOST of us "deplorables" would (and have) risked our lives for their right to be free and believe what they want and we TRULY do welcome them to the 2A "fold", you'll just have to cut some of us "deplorables" a weeeeee.... bit of slack for a while as we FINALLY take a WELL EARNED moment to point out the F-ed up HIPOCRACY of these new-found 2A "beneficiaries"... and maybe even gloat a bit.

 

[PaulB47]

Gun control is not naturally a leftist issue; it started as a "no guns for Negroes" movement in the South, for heaven's sake.

There is a lot of leftist rejection of gun control out there, if you google around (although maybe you should use startpage rather than google ). Here is one example:
Geeky Leftist: It's not NRA lobbying blocking new anti-gun laws - it's grassroots voters and gun owners

I and every conservative I know have zero problems with "welfare" and Government "help".

That's why I could never be a conservative. I have a problem with it.

 

[Stomper]

It was southern DEMOCRATS who wanted to keep negros from owning guns in order to keep them subjugated, but I don't really care about the origins of gun control... it's always come down from the "elites of the day" (left or right) in an effort to maintain their power.

I'm only interested in the "here & now", and right now it's the DNC who is the GC champions.

 

[etrain16]

I'm only interested in the "here & now", and right now it's the DNC who is the GC champions.

100% agree. The DNC has made gun control a primary plank in their platform. Used to be they would shy away from talking about it during an election, now they run on it. Their fear of reprisal has gone away since too many D voters have continued to support them even though they fight for more gun control.

I think the only way to stop this is if Democrat voters that really care about 2A rights use their votes to punish Democrat politicians that push for gun control - by not voting for them, for several election cycles, if necessary, and make sure they know that gun control is why they are losing D votes. Conservatives don't have that power, only current Democrat voters have that power. Vote for anyone else, it doesn't even have to be a Republican, but punish any politician that supports gun control - in any form.