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Honestly... Yea. If you think you will assess the threat, draw your weapon and still need to aim at something further away then point blank then you are far superior to me and I'm ok with that.

In the city, you will have your attackers well within your 21 feet before you realize your the victim. Which is why I spend more time training for CQC then aiming and shooting, I've been shooting since I was 4 years old and can hit anything I aim at.

I have only been practicing hand to hand (or with weapons) since I was 8 years old and only seriously as a survival tool since my 20's.

YouTube street fights and you may find that things do not go quite like most defense instructors would have you believe.

That and at 6'1" and 240lbs, "cuddle mode" is likely the last place an attacker wants to be at with me. I'll bite, gouge eyes out and crush a windpipe if attacked and they are within an arms reach. Should I not be able to reach my gun or knife for some reason.

If we are talking in the woods, well that's why I carry a rifle and use my pistol as "backup".

Laugh if it sound rediculous but we all prepare a little differently and see different threats that need to be trained against.

I certainly would not recommend my tactics or fighting style to my 5'6" wife...
Oh and Joe, we're not talking about your crowed about badassery, we're talking about holes, and not at grappling range or 400yds.. we're talking about fekin simple holes. feh
 
I am stupid not ignorant because I kept this going.o_O

I am more effiecent then lazy generally but my wife would agree with you on some days I'm sure.;)

I was responding to something tits said when you inserted your .02 and my reply was in response to my personal preference as to not caring what kind of hole it made as long as it did.

But that's the thing though.. not all "holes" are equal.. by a long shot. The classic hole maker, the semi-wadcutter is the true benchmark.. and penetrates deeply, through-and-through a moose from nose to anus. The lame is hardball. Then there's tweaked and engineered HP's. They all have a use and all make "holes" though.

Sigh? Are we really having this conversation? My biggest problem this morning was feeding the troll it seems.

Or possibly your reading comprehension or perspective is not the same as mine and we have a failure to communicate.

All I can say is go back and re-read the thread and try to take some of the points I was trying to make for what they were and not what your making them out to be.

This has gotten way off topic, and feels more like your just trying to find a way to insult me, so I am finished with the thread. However, @Certaindeaf, I would be happy to continue a debate about whatever it is that's bugging you in a private conversation.

If I don't receive one from you then I am sure we will have another debate in another thread; hopefully it will be more pleasant.

Have a great rest of the day:):cool::rolleyes:
 
I am stupid not ignorant because I kept this going.o_O

I am more effiecent then lazy generally but my wife would agree with you on some days I'm sure.;)

I was responding to something tits said when you inserted your .02 and my reply was in response to my personal preference as to not caring what kind of hole it made as long as it did.



Sigh? Are we really having this conversation? My biggest problem this morning was feeding the troll it seems.

Or possibly your reading comprehension or perspective is not the same as mine and we have a failure to communicate.

All I can say is go back and re-read the thread and try to take some of the points I was trying to make for what they were and not what your making them out to be.

This has gotten way off topic, and feels more like your just trying to find a way to insult me, so I am finished with the thread. However, @Certaindeaf, I would be happy to continue a debate about whatever it is that's bugging you in a private conversation.

If I don't receive one from you then I am sure we will have another debate in another thread; hopefully it will be more pleasant.

Have a great rest of the day:):cool::rolleyes:
O sweet cuddle times! Bang, no cuddle for you.
 
Cool spread sheet. Are those part numbers hyper-links?
yes, some of them are broken now

one of the things thats attractive about the 10 is the power so its easy to get sucked into seeing what the hottest load is you can find (guilty). I had also added a column in the sheet to enter penetration values from brassfetcher.com website but ran out of steam and time to go thru it all and enter the data... it is cool though to see all the options in one place and penetration would be a good criteria to pick from for a woods load.

for example brassfetcher shows the DT 200g WFNGC Hardcast penetrating ~38 inches in 10% gelatin.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Ballistic Gelatin Tests/10mm Auto 10 Percent Ballistic Gelatin.html
 
I wanted to be able to compare various handgun loads by muzzle energy

I wonder why people picked energy as a measure of cartridge effectiveness. Why not momentum for example? Why not plain old velocity? Or mass?

Energy is 1/2 mass x velocity x velocity. Momentum is mass x velocity. Taylor knock out is momentum x bullet diameter (expanded or not?) x a constant. Who knows what measure makes sense? It's been studied to death and there is no agreement.

I end up going with what is cheapest, and that is 9mm. :)
 
I picked up my 10mm because I have been wanting to get into a larger bore pistol for some time. I have the usual suspects in the safe but the 10mm had eluded me and I like its originating story. And to be honest, I like the pistol because it was showcased in one of my favorite movies (although in .45 ACP) and after holding one in real life I knew I had to have one. So after a long search I found one and took the plunge. Its a large, heavy, "look at me" gun and I like it!

I could care less to argue numbers, effectiveness, hole size and the like. I enjoy the round and the platform with which its despensed. I found the spreadsheet interesting as well.

Oh, and my EDC is either a G19, a G42 or a Kahr CW380 so I'm not about to put down any caliber.
 
.I end up going with what is cheapest, and that is 9mm. :)
I "ended" up with the 9mm around forty years ago because they make good guns in that caliber (Browning Hi-Power) and you can stoke it with hard cast 158gr SWC's.. for about a hundred years now.
Hey, what's a whole millimeter between friends anyway? lol
 
I wonder why people picked energy as a measure of cartridge effectiveness. Why not momentum for example? Why not plain old velocity? Or mass?

Energy is 1/2 mass x velocity x velocity. Momentum is mass x velocity. Taylor knock out is momentum x bullet diameter (expanded or not?) x a constant. Who knows what measure makes sense? It's been studied to death and there is no agreement.

I end up going with what is cheapest, and that is 9mm. :)

I dont know why... perhaps its instinctual, or what everybody else does. Its seems like a logical choice on the surface. Ultimately I agree the 9mm is the best SD round not because its "better" but because its cheapest effective choice.
 
I enjoy the round and the platform with which its despensed.
My favorite round to shoot is the 10mm for many reasons but practically speaking I reserve it for the outdoors. I've always wanted to take a deer with one but I've never got that close to one... last summer I practiced target shooting out to 100yds and was excited to put a couple rounds on paper, I think with some practice I could be more accurate.
 
My favorite round to shoot is the 10mm for many reasons but practically speaking I reserve it for the outdoors. I've always wanted to take a deer with one but I've never got that close to one... last summer I practiced target shooting out to 100yds and was excited to put a couple rounds on paper, I think with some practice I could be more accurate.

Go hunting down here in NC, most of the time deer are so close you can use a 9mm or .45.
 
If you think that you will have time to pick your target and aim before shooting, guess again. You will be lucky to have time to hit center mass and kinetic energy means nothing. Bullet weight and diameter is what counts.
 
Man.

Muzzle energy... it just doesn't cover all the bases for all situations, (and I understand that's not the purpose of the chart in the O.P.) ...factoring momentum through obstructions, transfer of energy into a target, controllability, and accessibility of the launcher in your environment (drawing while seated in a car vs. a belt-holstered service weapon, all factor into the equation.

As observed earlier, if you can't get the thing on-target in time, it don't make no difference, and boy, do things happen quickly when they go to crap, in about 2 seconds you can go from fine on a beautiful summer evening to the most dire extreme fight for your life.

Empty-handed techniques and a good grip just might be all you have time to manage. We do well to have a wide variety of tools for each situation because they don't always unwind the way we might hope.

I personally prefer a big heavy cartridge, with a huge, gaping ashtray-hole in the end of it, in front of a +P load, such as the Federal HST. But sometimes situations don't allow for the service-size cannons and you have to compromise for concealment or dexterity.

One thing's for sure, Newton's 3rd law, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction is still true; so however hard the recoil hits you is pretty much how hard it'll hit your opponent, too.

So when I shoot my .38 +P loads and it's not real pleasant, then I shoot my partner's .380 and it's kind of nothing, I think to myself. "Uh-huh, well that's a good gun for you, maybe, but I'll stick with the one that stings a little more."
 

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