Other State ATF now going after Pistol Braces...

[The Heretic]

Give them the brace and put a stock on it like you should have to begin with.

Ok, so if they are coming for arm braces, how long before they come for SBRs?

With an arm brace, the ATF does not know who most of the owners are. With SBRs, the opposite is true.

Then there is the whole thing of having to tell the ATF any time you take it across state lines, not to mention more states ban SBRs than arm braces.

Plus arm braces are cheaper than the SBR tax stamp, they can be transferred to anybody at any time without a wait period, and if attached to a pistol, it can be "concealed" if you can get a CHL/CWP/et. al.

 

[Alexx1401]

the thing that's making little sense to me is the claim they're going after ONE brace in particular, 700,000 owned blah blah... Given the ingenuity of SBA, ( if it is, indeed, they), a simple design tweak would probably make their brace re-legal. So why would the ATF consider a rule so narrow ? Why not a broad rule change that would effectively outlaw all braces ??

It will be interesting to see what exactly they are going after here, assuming they really do. As to why? I could easily see them going after them all in increments. When these first hit I thought they would just step on them. They kind of tried and were kind of shot down, so they kind of let it go. Now the market just exploded. I even saw an add the other day for someone running for office who was holding an AR pistol with a Brace. So to put the genie back in the bottle they may be wanting to do it like all gun control, little here little there. Who knows. I would like to see what exactly they are having a problem with.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Plus arm braces are cheaper than the SBR tax stamp, they can be transferred to anybody at any time without a wait period, and if attached to a pistol, it can be "concealed" if you can get a CHL/CWP/et. al.

If all braces were cheaper than the stamp, sure. I see a lot of braces ranging from $130 to $250, with a few being $400... for $200 tax stamp and a few months wait, or so... I would be able to just get a standard, $30-50 m4 style stock with buffer tube, and run any short barrel upper I want ?

Ideally.... abolish parts or whole of NFA and GCA and FOPA 86 (especially the hated Hughes Amendment ) and let the citizens decide what they want to buy and use for their own protection.

On the flip side... would the ATF have the funding and enough agents to go after 700,000+ gun owners if they don't comply?

 

[Alexx1401]

If all braces were cheaper than the stamp, sure. I see a lot of braces ranging from $130 to $250, with a few being $400... for $200 tax stamp and a few months wait, or so... I would be able to just get a standard, $30-50 m4 style stock with buffer tube, and run any short barrel upper I want ?

Ideally.... abolish parts or whole of NFA and GCA and FOPA 86 (especially the hated Hughes Amendment ) and let the citizens decide what they want to buy and use for their own protection.

On the flip side... would the ATF have the funding and enough agents to go after 700,000+ gun owners if they don't comply?

Remember the two shotguns they suddenly decided were an NFA item? Remember a holster Desantis made that one day they just decided was an AOW? How did they do this without problems? People seem to think there is 700K gun owners who are going to stand there and get arrested. How did they get over 300 Million people to bow down and pretend these police state actions costing them their jobs and business's were ok? All they had to do was make threats, then actually hurt a few people. See any mass response, or do you see mass compliance? I see mass compliance. Outlaw the brace and they don't have to do anything. All they have to do is wait till someone who had one gets on their bad side one day. They just add one more charge to them. I am not sure where so many seem to think they need to go after everyone when most gun owners have long proven they will go along with anything they are told.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Whats the compliance rate on the "high capacity" magazines in Colorado?

Or the semiauto rifle registry in New England area?

Something like way less than 10%?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Its all in the wording like "includes but is not limited to"

 

[andreys21]

Sadly history has proven they will get people to do as they ask. Look at this hoax that lead to the police state actions. See mass uprising? Many states are still in complete lockdown. It's beyond the point where it's something people can lie to themselves about but they line up to obey. So when they say no more braces none will go to prison. Some will of course keep one but you will not see them shooting with it and there of course will be none for sale. So they will get the solution they are after. All they have to do is make an example out of a couple people and most will throw in.

You're absolutely right and that has been the trend since the law started chipping away at the Second Amendment. In all honesty, we have no one to blame but ourselves. It doesn't matter who the president is. Your local and state officials have way more influence on state and national policy than president. President can only veto once and we cam still pass laws with the senate. Facts are that most people in USA dont vote nor do they keep up with whats going on in state, local or federal gov't. They've been sold a lie that "your vote makes no difference so don't bother" by the same people that don't want them to vote. That's where we are and no one has time between work, family, and netflix to be bothered to get informed and get involved. Most local and state officials run unopposed every time and the term limits are there because people don't bother to vote bad apples out. Bread and Circus please because everything is just fine.

 

[Alexx1401]

Whats the compliance rate on the "high capacity" magazines in Colorado?

Or the semiauto rifle registry in New England area?

Something like way less than 10%?

Have no idea. I am sure there has to be a lot of them floating around but, those who choose to do so know the risk they are taking. If they get into some "brush with the law" for any reason and the mags are found? Does anyone really believe the owner will just be told go home and forget it? This is state law. Now when we get to Federal. How many do it yourself suppressor plans are out there? Even Amazon sells the stuff. Anyone really believe that when someone is found with a suppressor they did not paper that the Feds will laugh it off? If so I know a prince in Nigeria looking to make them a millionaire.
When they outlaw the brace those who have one can keep them. They know if they are caught they are in for all kinds of legal fun and most likely will end up a felon. So if it's worth that to them? By all means keep the brace. You will not see them at the local range as you do now of course.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Have no idea. I am sure there has to be a lot of them floating around but, those who choose to do so know the risk they are taking. If they get into some "brush with the law" for any reason and the mags are found? Does anyone really believe the owner will just be told go home and forget it? This is state law. Now when we get to Federal. How many do it yourself suppressor plans are out there? Even Amazon sells the stuff. Anyone really believe that when someone is found with a suppressor they did not paper that the Feds will laugh it off? If so I know a prince in Nigeria looking to make them a millionaire.
When they outlaw the brace those who have one can keep them. They know if they are caught they are in for all kinds of legal fun and most likely will end up a felon. So if it's worth that to them? By all means keep the brace. You will not see them at the local range as you do now of course.

I would not make assumptions about CO people's views. I haven't visited a CO range but when the high cap mag law came into being it was treated as a joke for a long time. I don't know current view. Agree that state law is different from federal and enforcement may be vastly different also.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Have no idea. I am sure there has to be a lot of them floating around but, those who choose to do so know the risk they are taking. If they get into some "brush with the law" for any reason and the mags are found? Does anyone really believe the owner will just be told go home and forget it? This is state law.

I would not make assumptions about CO people's views. I haven't visited a CO range but when the high cap mag law came into being it was treated as a joke for a long time. I don't know current view.

Most recent I could find, from Nov 2019

Six Years In, Few People Have Been Sentenced Under Colorado’s Large-Capacity Magazine Ban

Colorado lawmakers banned large-capacity ammunition magazines in the wake of the mass shooting in Aurora. Several states, including Connecticut, Massachusetts and Vermont also have magazine restrictions on the books. But many gun owners still use them.

www.kunc.org

11 people, in 6 years, and they were largely tacked on charges in addition to drugs and other offences

Also from November 2019;

The Colorado Supreme Court Is Considering Undoing The State's Ban On Magazine Limits


This is Colorado, mind you.

For the New England thing, I distinctly remember some news sites saying there's something like 3% compliance rate of registering "assault weapons" in either Connecticutt or Massussuchetts (spelling for either one?)

 

[Alexx1401]

I would not make assumptions about CO people's views. I haven't visited a CO range but when the high cap mag law came into being it was treated as a joke for a long time. I don't know current view. Agree that state law is different from federal and enforcement may be vastly different also.

I personally do not care what they do or make assumptions about them. I would be quite surprised to find that the people there in mass gave their mags away but anything is possible. I would suspect a lot of them still kept them. Again I do not care. Those who choose to keep them, assuming there are some, most know they are breaking the law and taking a risk. No different than those who thumb their nose at NFA laws. They know they are breaking the law, choose to do so, and again I could care less. All law enforcement is based on "getting caught". People buy and sell illegal drugs all day every day. If they are caught they deal with the after actions. Guns are no different. You can choose to break the law, may do it all your life but, you know when doing it you are taking that risk.
What I do find quite amusing is gun owners who think the law makers will not make laws because many will ignore the law. After watching this virus hoax that one is beyond belief.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Remember Virginia? Hundreds showed up armed and decked out in gear... and yet, the VA govt still passed gun control laws

 

[CamoDeafie]

Obeying laws that contradict the Constitution does not give these laws legitimacy, in my opinion. Of course it is safer to obey than it is to disobey, but that is the price we all pay letting the Govt at large write laws

If police are not allowed to enforce laws, and the courts merely rubberstamps certain actions and laws passed at local-State levels; then...... really. Do I gotta spell it out? Just looking at whats going on in CHAZ, and looking at whats happening in Atlanta... and other cities...

 

[The Heretic]

If all braces were cheaper than the stamp, sure. I see a lot of braces ranging from $130 to $250, with a few being $400... for $200 tax stamp and a few months wait, or so... I would be able to just get a standard, $30-50 m4 style stock with buffer tube, and run any short barrel upper I want ?

Ideally.... abolish parts or whole of NFA and GCA and FOPA 86 (especially the hated Hughes Amendment ) and let the citizens decide what they want to buy and use for their own protection.

On the flip side... would the ATF have the funding and enough agents to go after 700,000+ gun owners if they don't comply?

I got two SBA3 braces for $100 each - on sale. I ordered them online, got them a week later. Easy peasey. No forms, no fingerprints, no gov records. I don't have to notify anybody when I give/sell then to someone else, or take them across state lines, or when I change my address. Pretty much no one knows I have one or don't - plausible deniability, even though I admit to owning one of more here. I can destroy or throw them away and there is nothing the gov can do about it.

As for the ATF going after owners - it is a LOT easier to go after NFA item owners than brace owners. The ATF already has all that info and there is little to no plausible way to deny ownership in court.

 

[Devneck]

My cousin lives in Colorado and I think last time I spoke with her about Colorado mag limits she said theirs are grandfathered in. My impression was she believed she was legal. I don't know any more than that on that.

As for Gaetz, I've mostly liked him even though not my representative. My frustration with "conservative" or "liberty loving" politicians is why does it always feel like they don't fight enough to regain our liberties? Maybe this was kind of the point @bolus was trying to make? We seem to settle for slowing down the attack on our freedoms instead of electing people that actively work to get them back for us.

 

[DunRanull]

My cousin lives in Colorado and I think last time I spoke with her about Colorado mag limits she said theirs are grandfathered in. My impression was she believed she was legal. I don't know any more than that on that.

As for Gaetz, I've mostly liked him even though not my representative. My frustration with "conservative" or "liberty loving" politicians is why does it always feel like they don't fight enough to regain our liberties? Maybe this was kind of the point @bolus was trying to make? We seem to settle for slowing down the attack on our freedoms instead of electing people that actively work to get them back for us.

As for Colorado I believe that the older mags are grandfathered in; but I am not a lawyer... havent heard of any arrests for possession of standard-capacity magazines.. The law (unless it's been changed) makes illegal the SALE or TRANSFER of standard-capacity mags... not possession... and I understand there are ways that some sellers have used to get around the ban on sales... not sure what they are but possibly selling the parts separately as replacement/repair parts...

Every session of the Legislature has voted down repeals of the mag-ban and private sale background-checks.. The private sale BGC are a PITA in part because many LG won't do them except for Hi-$$$ because it's a time-consuming hassle that ties up their phones for hours...

The ban and private-sale background checks generated a lot of anger here- the dems got control of both houses of the legislature AND a dem governor for the first time in decades, and the first thing they did when called into session was pull off these unpopular anti-gun laws...
If things don't change here I may yet leave this state- but not very many places that are "better" anymore. THEY are running us to ground...

 

[The Heretic]

How do they know whether the mag is grandfathered or not? Couldn't a person buy mags out of state? How would the gov know?

 

[bolus]

My cousin lives in Colorado and I think last time I spoke with her about Colorado mag limits she said theirs are grandfathered in. My impression was she believed she was legal. I don't know any more than that on that.

As for Gaetz, I've mostly liked him even though not my representative. My frustration with "conservative" or "liberty loving" politicians is why does it always feel like they don't fight enough to regain our liberties? Maybe this was kind of the point @bolus was trying to make? We seem to settle for slowing down the attack on our freedoms instead of electing people that actively work to get them back for us.

The democrats actively try to remove gun rights. The republicans do nothing so that when they are replaced with a democrat we are back to loosing more gun rights. I know that everyone says they are not as bad as democrats but we still end up in the same place without rights.

What happened with the last republican controlled federal government? Did we get the hearing protection act? did we get concealed carry reciprocity? Did anyone even suggest the ATF is garbage and try to reduce their ability to make up laws out of the blue? We got nothing. When the democrats resume control then the republicans are all over the place saying that the second amendment is under attack. Its all a smoke screen because they did nothing when they had the ability to. All they want is the appearance that they represent gun owners so they get re-elected.

There is no politician that is actively trying to restore gun rights. I'm not talking about stopping further degradation of rights but actively restoring them.

When a gun show loophole bill comes up where is the bill reducing background checks?
When an "assault rifle bad" bill comes up where is the bill repealing the NFA?
When my state requires the government to review your medical records before a firearm purchase, where is the bill making registration and licensing illegal?
When the magazine size ban bill shows up where is the bill to make is permanently illegal to try and ban magazines?
When the C&R FFL is made illegal by oregon where is the bill that makes the C&F FFL illegal in the first place (a license for a right)

I'd love to learn of a politician who is just as active doing the exact opposite of any anti-gun democrat.

Gaetz can talk all he wants but like I said, he has done nothing of actual substance to reverse and this overwhelming attack on the freedoms in the US.

 

[GWS]

How do they know whether the mag is grandfathered or not? Couldn't a person buy mags out of state? How would the gov know?

I can tell you that Lancer mags have a date stamp on them
Have to look at some P-Mags to see if they do or not

 

[CountryGent]

@bolus, exactly, couldn't agree more. When I start seeing large amounts of gun control garbage (at both state and federal levels) repealed and placed in the trash bin of history, I'll buy the pro-2A rhetoric. Until then, well, not.