Armed tenants here

[Stomper]

Don't mean Bubblegum. They still have a duty to retreat first.

Oregon Supreme Court ruled ages ago that a person has no duty to retreat….. where'd you get that from?

 

[Stomper]

you are correct. I stand corrected. I thought since there is no Stand Your Ground law. That a duty to retreat was implied. a 2007 court case changed that. So it is basically "He Said She Said" with the onus on you to prove the necessity of legal use of force.

That is not how the justice system works, it is up to the state to prove that you did not have justified reason for deadly force, not for you to prove that you did.

 

[Unka-Boo]

I live on the same strip of 181st as that place. It's not a great area.

I lived in that complex when I first moved out, it was sketchy 30 years ago

 

[OldBroad44]

I like the combo of owning guns and dogs. Dogs do have some limitations besides the time it takes to care for them.

A Rottweiler and many breeds will normally indicate his presence or absence by barking.

When you are out walking your dog, your house is unprotected. And its a sure thing that at least once or twice a day you'll walk the dog. A crook can just park down the street and wait.

They can't open doors, including indoor doors. If someone breaks into your bedroom window without your dog hearing while you are away and closes bedroom door they are then free to spend as much time as they need searching your bedroom for valuables while your dog barks uselessly at the door.

If you keep them in the house with the people at night they can't protect anything outdoors unless maybe if they are right by the side of the house where the problem is or there are other animals outdoors to sound an alarm.

Many dogs don't act aggressive unless you are there unless they have been specifically trained. But it depends on breed and individual dog. A neighbor of mine who owned a standard size dachshund once came home to a window with the lock broken and partially raised with copious amounts of blood all over the window sill. Apparently the would-be crook had attempted to break in, not taking the dog seriously. But standard dachshunds are actually full size dogs except for their short legs. They are bred for short legs for getting into badger holes. It takes a lot of courage and fierceness for a dog to go into a badger hole and get the badger. And dachshunds are actually often good natural property guardians.

If you, like I, become so fond of your dog you take her everywhere, she might be great at protecting you, but she can't protect your property when you and she aren't there.

Most dogs with access to the outdoors are vulnerable to being drugged with sleeping pill loaded food.

 

[The B]

An apartment complex full of these guys.

View attachment 1133624


View attachment 1133625

I would move on to the next place.

yea... that might be how most gun owners view themselves, but to a hardened criminal you just look like a dude that needs his guns stolen.

real criminals arent scared of guns or their owners.. they just see opportunity.

 

[Provincial]

Oregon Supreme Court ruled ages ago that a person has no duty to retreat….. where'd you get that from?

Actually, the Oregon Supreme Court had to reverse an earlier decision (made by Democratic hack appointee Betty Roberts) that created a Duty to Retreat. That earlier ruling was in response to a successful self-defense argument that cleared an occupant of a drug house that killed a police officer during a "no-knock" raid. It was the perfect example of the State using brute force (a politically appointed judiciary) to suspend a long-standing legal right in order to enable the literal application of (police state) brute force.

It was so outrageous that the later Court had to not only reverse the ruling, it had to disclaim the original ruling in the published decision. This is what you get from one-party rule.

 

[OldBroad44]

Maybe they need to put up some "protected by Geese" signs!!

Actually, domestic geese have powerful beaks and are capable of drawing blood. However usually they nip and chase if intruder cooperates. And hit him with the elbows on their flapping wings. Canada geese are much more dangerous even though much smaller. They can and do fly and attack your head and hair and face, not just your legs, hands, arms, and butt. Canada geese are a lot more serious about it, too. With domestic geese, unless nest or young are near, the attack seems to be more ritual or for fun. Nips aimed at butt rather than real bites and running just fast enough to not catch intruder. If intruder falls down domestic geese usually wait till he gets up before resuming the game rather than attacking when he is most vulnerable.

In the breeding season my Embden geese attacked me about once every three days. I would simply grab the dominant gander by the neck and pick him up and sit down with him on my lap and pet him. I really enjoyed petting geese. They are so soft and clean. They didn't like to be caught let alone petted and turned into lap geese. So I used it as punishment. The gander would look very embarrassed while being petted. He didn't act particularly scared. The rest of the geese would just stand around and watch. They dropped their attack as soon as the dominant gander was caught. Then for about three days he and the flock would be nice with me. Until their hormones got the upper hand again. When the spring breeding season was over they went back to being nice with me all the time, though not with strangers.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.real criminals arent scared of guns or their owners.. they just see opportunity.

That's the opposite of what I've seen. Criminals are more afraid of civilians than cops.

 

[mhayd93]

lol ok

seems like more of an invitation for trouble than deterrence. advertising the presence of guns likely attracts psychopaths more than deters them, but if the signs make some people feel better then i guess watevs

the fear will always outweigh actual crime, in overall harm done.

Is there any statistical proof to this claim? Just thinking personally, I am always a little bit more on edge when I walk by a house that has a "Beware of Dog" sign.

From a psychological perspective, I find it hard to believe that when presented with numerous choices, a common thief would actually prioritize a residence that indicates it is armed and ready to defend itself!

 

[OldBroad44]

That's the opposite of what I've seen. Criminals are more afraid of civilians than cops.

This is consistent with a report I saw once, a survey of incarcerated prisoners that asked them about whether they were more afraid of getting caught by cops or running into a householder with a gun. It was the latter by a long way.

I also read somewhere that running into a householder with a gun was an often cited reason for burglars deciding to give up the trade.

Generally homes where most people own guns are normally robbed only when the residents are absent.

 

[Savage Jav]

Don't mean Bubblegum. They still have a duty to retreat first.

I think your mistaken. Oregon has no duty to retreat law.

 

[Savage Jav]

I like the combo of owning guns and dogs. Dogs do have some limitations besides the time it takes to care for them.

A Rottweiler and many breeds will normally indicate his presence or absence by barking.

When you are out walking your dog, your house is unprotected. And its a sure thing that at least once or twice a day you'll walk the dog. A crook can just park down the street and wait.

They can't open doors, including indoor doors. If someone breaks into your bedroom window without your dog hearing while you are away and closes bedroom door they are then free to spend as much time as they need searching your bedroom for valuables while your dog barks uselessly at the door.

If you keep them in the house with the people at night they can't protect anything outdoors unless maybe if they are right by the side of the house where the problem is or there are other animals outdoors to sound an alarm.

Many dogs don't act aggressive unless you are there unless they have been specifically trained. But it depends on breed and individual dog. A neighbor of mine who owned a standard size dachshund once came home to a window with the lock broken and partially raised with copious amounts of blood all over the window sill. Apparently the would-be crook had attempted to break in, not taking the dog seriously. But standard dachshunds are actually full size dogs except for their short legs. They are bred for short legs for getting into badger holes. It takes a lot of courage and fierceness for a dog to go into a badger hole and get the badger. And dachshunds are actually often good natural property guardians.

If you, like I, become so fond of your dog you take her everywhere, she might be great at protecting you, but she can't protect your property when you and she aren't there.

Most dogs with access to the outdoors are vulnerable to being drugged with sleeping pill loaded food.

I don't know I have a CZ that is pretty needy too, it wants lots of attention.

 

[Astoria9mm]

That is not how the justice system works, it is up to the state to prove that you did not have justified reason for deadly force, not for you to prove that you didn't

LOL I know exactly how the justice system works. My father was a Detective, my Aunt & Uncles are layers, and I have had my own experiences with the law/court as well. Yes, the "Burden of Proof" as a term is on the state as far as pleading the case. That being said you're still relying on the interpretation of 12 different people with the presented information of both sides to decide your fate. In actuality one is still providing evidence and witnesses to the contrary of the states position. Thus exerting your "proof" of events or claim. If there was no need for a defendant to "Prove" anything in court he / she would never have to do anything or provide anything.

 

[OldBroad44]

Is there any statistical proof to this claim? Just thinking personally, I am always a little bit more on edge when I walk by a house that has a "Beware of Dog" sign.

From a psychological perspective, I find it hard to believe that when presented with numerous choices, a common thief would actually prioritize a residence that indicates it is armed and ready to defend itself!

A more sophisticated crook is likely to case the joint and learn how many people live there and their schedules and break in when he knows the house is empty and the people all likely to be gone for a while. Guns are very valuable goods and in demand from other crooks as well as fences. When the people are gone, the guns present no danger.

Any serious valuables probably involve greater risk. A lot of expensive jewelry probably correlates with having an alarm system, for example.

 

[Astoria9mm]

I think your mistaken. Oregon has no duty to retreat l

yes, I already said I was mistaken. We have no "Castle Doctrine" here so I assumed incorrectly there was still a duty to retreat. A case in 2007 changed that.

 

[The B]

im not talking about common thieves. i said psychopaths, hardened criminals. and if you underestimate their total lack of a fear response and love of predation, and how common they are, you may find out what im talking about.

armed robbers and murderers abound, as evidenced by the quantity currently convicted.

 

[Certaindeaf]

im not talking about common thieves. i said psychopaths, hardened criminals. and if you underestimate their total lack of a fear response and love of predation, and how common they are, you may find out what im talking about.

armed robbers and murderers abound, as evidenced by the quantity currently convicted.

Every one's gonna die. I wouldn't get too worked up over it.

 

[The Heretic]

So it is basically "He Said She Said" with the onus on you to prove the necessity of legal use of force.

Not really that either. In the context of the thread the onus is upon the state to prove you are not acting in self defense

 

[The B]

Not really that either. In the context of the thread the onus is upon the state to prove you are not acting in self defense

indeed - as our esteemed representative marty wilde from district 11 is trying to change, a crime must be proved by the state. innocent unless suspected, indicted, and proven guilty.

lets hope that doesnt change.

that mufuker never did get back to me with "the attention and respect" my email "deserves."

 

[gmerkt]

deploying a flock of nine large, aggressive, territorial Embdem geese

During the Vietnam war, some of the strategic hamlets used geese for guard duty. They were more reliable than humans who fell asleep on guard.

standard dachshunds are actually full size dogs except for their short legs. They are bred for short legs for getting into badger holes. It takes a lot of courage and fierceness for a dog to go into a badger hole and get the badger. And dachshunds are actually often good natural property guardians.

Amen. One of my daughters has a Dachshund, she calls it her security system. Not that she has anything worth stealing. That dog is a barking machine and quite aggressive. Years ago, one of my uncles kept AKC Dachshunds, nasty dispositions.

my Aunt & Uncles are layers

Are they geese, ducks or hens?