Oregon Another Anti-gun Petition - Initiative 44

[CountryGent]

For decades they were saying, stay out of my bedroom. They need to listen to their ownmessage.

Exactly. Some get huffy about what consenting adults do in their bedroom. Others don't mind that, as long as that bedroom doesn't contain a firearm. How about both of them kindly buzz off?

Securing your firearms from unauthorized access is part of being a responsible citizen. I don't have a problem with that and, on the contrary, believe it to be a necessity. I have a big problem with the government demanding it be done in the way in which they require, particularly if it makes a defensive arm essentially worthless, and considering the penalties attached. It is unconstitutional (as ruled by the SCOTUS) and absurd because everyone's situation is different.

All that said, while I am deeply concerned about 43, I am less so with this one. I don't see how it survives in the courts in light of Heller. The plain reading of the language in said ruling would put to rest much of this proposed statute.

And I get being "bent out of shape" regarding new laws because of the stupidity of others, but there are a LOT of stupid people out there, unfortunately.

There are legions of morons out there. While that is lamentable, I am not willing to give up my liberty and the ability to defend myself because of that sad fact.

 

[Slobray]

You won't get an argument for me in either case, but the reason laws exist in the first place is because people don't do the right things to start with.

I'm not going to change your mind, and you won't change my mind. I just hope smarter people than me can figure out some way to address all this "stuff". But grabbing or banning guns definitely isn't the solution (I think we all agree on that) so something needs to be done to minimize the needless deaths.

Do you think this law will stop stupid people and/or criminals from doing stupid and/or illegal things? We all know how well the laws work to stop people from doing drugs, robbery, theft, DUI, murder, etc............

I don't have any stats, but IMHO, PSAs don't work. They are just "feel good" commercials to make some people feel like they are doing "something". Maybe they do more good than I think they do.

Again, smarter people than me need to work on this at the state and national level.

Do you really think this law is any different? Is it really going to stop stupid people and/or criminals from doing stupid and/or illegal things, or does it "make some people feel like they are doing "something""?

I think the majority of us on this site are the 99%ers when it comes to responsible gun ownership. And I get being "bent out of shape" regarding new laws because of the stupidity of others, but there are a LOT of stupid people out there, unfortunately.

See first reply.



Ray

 

[tourproto]

Do you think this law will stop stupid people and/or criminals from doing stupid and/or illegal things? We all know how well the laws work to stop people from doing drugs, robbery, theft, DUI, murder, etc............

Do you really think this law is any different? Is it really going to stop stupid people and/or criminals from doing stupid and/or illegal things, or does it "make some people feel like they are doing "something""?

See first reply.

Ray

Again, I will go back to my example of requiring the use of seat belts in cars. Many of us used them because it made sense, but many others did not. So we have many other fatalities and serious injuries from car accidents that was necessary. So the govt mandates seat belt laws. Those of us that already used them were "what the F? people don't wear seat belts?". But seat belt usage went up because there were penalties if you were caught not using one and fatalities and injuries went down.

Today there are still people who won't wear a seat belt. That is their choice but they are breaking the law, and I've got news for you, we are probably footing the hospital bills for those that are seriously injured because those idiots probably don't have insurance either (as I said earlier, too many idiots out there). Probably never going to get those people to start doing it regardless of the penalties (none of which are severe enough to change their habits). These are the criminals you cite above. No law will make them safely store a gun. I get that.

But there is a group of people that will follow the law and buy a gun safe, and that will reduce unnecessary deaths and injuries. How much? I have no idea, but it should, just as increased seat belt usage did car deaths and injuries.

Look, obviously not going to change your mind, and you won't change mine. We disagree on this point. Its not the end of the world for you or me. And as was stated earlier most if not all of 44 will be struck down by Heller anyways.

 

[whitney]

Saying that something is illegal is not an argument. It is an appeal to authority.
Laws,(mans laws) are arbitrary dictates to control a population, not universal standards of morality.

~Whitney

 

[SUPER X]

I think the majority of us on this site are the 99%ers when it comes to responsible gun ownership. And I get being "bent out of shape" regarding new laws because of the stupidity of others, but there are a LOT of stupid people out there, unfortunately.

Yes the,re, is . But when they pass more laws The stupid people will still be there doing the same stupid stuff regardless of consequences. And probably voting for the idiots that made the laws.

 

[SUPER X]

View attachment 447202

Does this mean firearms on display in your home will not be tolerated...???

Yes it does you might want to sell me that 1911 before you offend a snoflake

 

[RailwayMan]

We are hearing the jackboots of Anti-Constitutionalism in the streets of Oregon. Socialist Governor, socialist-leaning Portland City Council, ... disrespect for Federal laws and law enforcement personnel, on and on ...

 

[SUPER X]

I am really getting tired of the government trying to protect me from myself. A reasonable man would ask themselves what is in their best

How about pushing for better parenting skills instead of telling us how we should handle our firearms. It is your mind set saying that those days our gone is what makes those days gone. When people are once again held accountable for their actions those days will come back.

We are hearing the jackboots of Anti-Constitutionalism in the streets of Oregon. Socialist Governor, socialist-leaning Portland City Council, ... disrespect for Federal laws and law enforcement personnel, on and on ...

They are attacking firearm owners under the assumption we all voted for the Donald . The governor and the commie crew hate Donald and anyone that they perceive to be respectful of the constatution.they have gone to far and are abusing the power they have.If these people are not gone soon Oregon is done .It is all ready obviously becoming a sh*thole state like california.and soon we won't be able to afford to live in our once beautiful safe state That is no longer safe or beutiful.

 

[RailwayMan]

Is Allen Gotlebb and the Second Amendment Foundation up in Washington going to get in the fight against it? They have been quiet so far as I can see.

 

[CoastRange57]

There are about 35 threads on this with thousands of posts. The left is filing petitions and ballot measures in at least 4 states with the worst being here in Oregon. And what does everybody on here do ?? Snipe at each other like a bunch of bit*hey old ladies at the afternoon tea.

The left is fixing to kick our azzes hard and this is the best we can all do ?? They are so organized and so far ahead of where the 2A supporters need to be it will take a long time and a lot of money to even think there is a chance of stopping it.

Grow the f**h up and get together on this people. I got a check book ready to write some decent checks on this if I can feel something will get accomplished other than a bunch of sh*t slinging at each other.


Deerfield, Illinois, just banned assault weapons. The penalty? Up to $1,000 a day. - CNN

 

[etrain16]

There are about 35 threads on this with thousands of posts. The left is filing petitions and ballot measures in at least 4 states with the worst being here in Oregon. And what does everybody on here do ?? Snipe at each other like a bunch of bit*hey old ladies at the afternoon tea.

The left is fixing to kick our azzes hard and this is the best we can all do ?? They are so organized and so far ahead of where the 2A supporters need to be it will take a long time and a lot of money to even think there is a chance of stopping it.

Grow the f**h up and get together on this people. I got a check book ready to write some decent checks on this if I can feel something will get accomplished other than a bunch of sh*t slinging at each other.


Deerfield, Illinois, just banned assault weapons. The penalty? Up to $1,000 a day. - CNN

As I've said in several of those threads you mention, we are lacking leadership - there is no one to bring everyone together and help guide folks around a central message and plan. I get you're upset, as are many of us, but simply telling folks to get out there and do something is what most of these threads are already saying - "do something". Problem is - what? Rally? Protest? Send $$ to OFF? Write legislators? Make phone calls? What do we do? What will be effective against well-organized anti-gun campaigns?

They have a plan. They have leadership. They have funding. People aren't just out there doing their own thing. This is a well-thought-out effort. And we simply don't have that. We can b!tch and moan about that, or we can try to find someone that can pull this together. I'm confident once we have that leadership there will be no shortage of help from folks on this site and around the state.

But the question remains - what do we do and who do we follow? Until that's answered, we'll continue to spin our wheels.

 

[brenty]

. My guess is many of the masses do not, and that is where the problem is. 2A or no 2A, gun ownership comes with responsibilities.

I respectfully disagree here. I would venture to suggest that most owners of 2 or more firearms own a safe, or locking mechanism of some sort. People in the firearms industry/community are generally above average IQ, quality, people with integrity.

I am not generally in favor of supporting laws that burden and restrict the majority of gun owners (good law abiding people) who are responsible with their firearms. In hope that some magical piece of paper will make already irresponsible people, responsible overnight.

 

[CoastRange57]

As I've said in several of those threads you mention, we are lacking leadership - there is no one to bring everyone together and help guide folks around a central message and plan. I get you're upset, as are many of us, but simply telling folks to get out there and do something is what most of these threads are already saying - "do something". Problem is - what? Rally? Protest? Send $$ to OFF? Write legislators? Make phone calls? What do we do? What will be effective against well-organized anti-gun campaigns?

They have a plan. They have leadership. They have funding. People aren't just out there doing their own thing. This is a well-thought-out effort. And we simply don't have that. We can b!tch and moan about that, or we can try to find someone that can pull this together. I'm confident once we have that leadership there will be no shortage of help from folks on this site and around the state.

But the question remains - what do we do and who do we follow? Until that's answered, we'll continue to spin our wheels.

Agree. The left has been at this a long time. 2A supporters have not been organized or even remotely connected for a long time. The left has had gun control and now confiscation as their agenda for years. We are facing a very organized, well funded and dedicated group with one purpose and one purpose only. They are also supported by a media shares the same agenda.

There does need to be strong leadership and people on the 2A side need to alter their personal agendas to work towards the preservation of our rights. Worry about the details later.

 

[etrain16]

Agree. The left has been at this a long time. 2A supporters have not been organized or even remotely connected for a long time. The left has had gun control and now confiscation as their agenda for years. We are facing a very organized, well funded and dedicated group with one purpose and one purpose only. They are also supported by a media shares the same agenda.

There does need to be strong leadership and people on the 2A side need to alter their personal agendas to work towards the preservation of our rights. Worry about the details later.

And I, like I'm sure many others are, willing to put effort into this. But I want to be sure it's not wasted effort - effort for effort's sake. Imagine a football team on the field - tell everyone to go out and do their best, but don't tell them how to play the game - let them figure it out for themselves. Some would probably gather together to try one thing, one lone guy may wander off another direction, still another small group gathers somewhere else on the field - all doing the work, but no one gaining ground and winning the game. I don't know about you, but I have little experience in fighting things like this, at least outside what we always hear - write letters, call legislators, meet legislators, rally/protest, send $$ to OFF, etc. But what we've seen is none of those things are having the impact we really need.

We need to find a way to rally all gun owners - regardless of what type of gun owners they are, and find a way to turn their anger and energy into a force that can actually cause some real change in Salem. The legislators don't fear us. They need to fear us - not in the sense that we are a physical threat, but that we are a political threat - someone who can threaten to cost them their power in Salem. Until they believe we can get them out of power, no amount of rallies, letters, phone calls, etc. will change their plan.

Who can get us there? I really don't know, not yet. A few names have been tossed out - some folks have reached out to them. Will they step up to be the leader we need? If we find the right one, as I said above, I am confident they will get a LOT of support from many here and around the state.

 

[CoastRange57]

One thing is encouraging to me. I have some friends scattered around the northwest, mostly east of the Cascades. They are on line for e mail mostly, not much on social media and other stuff. These are some hard core people who want to be left alone. 3 of them e mailed me and one called wanting information on where to participate in rallys, send money and what they could do. Couple of them may end up on here.

This is what it will take, is these never before engaged people to become involved. They have deep pockets too.

 

[etrain16]

One thing is encouraging to me. I have some friends scattered around the northwest, mostly east of the Cascades. They are on line for e mail mostly, not much on social media and other stuff. These are some hard core people who want to be left alone. 3 of them e mailed me and one called wanting information on where to participate in rallys, send money and what they could do. Couple of them may end up on here.

This is what it will take, is these never before engaged people to become involved. They have deep pockets too.

One thing I'm doing is talking to everyone I can right now, conservative, liberal, etc. I want them to be aware of this potential ballot measure and to explain how this could have dangerous implications well beyond banning guns. They need to know that if voters can vote to take rights away in this area - then other voters can do the same thing in other areas - maybe in an area they really do care about. So far, not one person I've spoken to has expressed any support for this, and, in fact, said they would vote against it. And that includes a number of liberal Democrats. They get that this is a bad precedent to set for everyone, not just gun owners. I can promise I'll be spreading the word all the way to November to get as many NO votes on this as possible - assuming it makes the ballot, that is.

 

[CoastRange57]

We need to find a way to rally all gun owners - regardless of what type of gun owners they are, and find a way to turn their anger and energy into a force that can actually cause some real change in Salem. The legislators don't fear us. They need to fear us - not in the sense that we are a physical threat, but that we are a political threat - someone who can threaten to cost them their power in Salem. Until they believe we can get them out of power, no amount of rallies, letters, phone calls, etc. will change their plan.

This battle will not be won from marches on the street. It will be won in the media, which is where the left has waged this war for a long time. Your comments reflect exactly what must be done. This is not a one issue thing that goes away with one small victory. This attack on our 2A rights will continue unabated for years to come.

Our goal should not only be to defeat these attacks on the 2A issue right now, but as you correctly point out, to remove these types from office. They do need to fear us, if for only what we can do at the ballot box to disrupt their agenda. If this is the issue that can get the 2A and conservatives to understand that this sh*t is real, very real and that we better get our sh*t together fast then lets go.

Like you I have some reservations about the way things are done. I have executive level experience in sales and marketing, and operational management. I see the big picture and don' t get wrapped up in details ( those are for others to handle). I also know there needs to be fast, decisive and continual decisions and adaptations to be made. Without a centralized command and control structure, our efforts will be greatly compromised.

I would not be past being a part of an advisory group to try and set some directions, but dicking around is not going to be part of that. Positions need to be developed, strategies assembled and marketing implemented. FAST. The emotions need to be held in check for the sake of a rationalized response.

RESPONSE. That means we are responding to a problem or situation that was not of our own doing. The other side is on the offensive and we are on the defensive. I don't like being defensive because you are strategically and tactically at a disadvantage to start with. That simple.

 

[brenty]

This battle will not be won from marches on the street. It will be won in the media, which is where the left has waged this war for a long time. Your comments reflect exactly what must be done. This is not a one issue thing that goes away with one small victory. This attack on our 2A rights will continue unabated for years to come.

Our goal should not only be to defeat these attacks on the 2A issue right now, but as you correctly point out, to remove these types from office. They do need to fear us, if for only what we can do at the ballot box to disrupt their agenda. If this is the issue that can get the 2A and conservatives to understand that this sh*t is real, very real and that we better get our sh*t together fast then lets go.

Like you I have some reservations about the way things are done. I have executive level experience in sales and marketing, and operational management. I see the big picture and don' t get wrapped up in details ( those are for others to handle). I also know there needs to be fast, decisive and continual decisions and adaptations to be made. Without a centralized command and control structure, our efforts will be greatly compromised.

I would not be past being a part of an advisory group to try and set some directions, but dicking around is not going to be part of that. Positions need to be developed, strategies assembled and marketing implemented. FAST. The emotions need to be held in check for the sake of a rationalized response.

RESPONSE. That means we are responding to a problem or situation that was not of our own doing. The other side is on the offensive and we are on the defensive. I don't like being defensive because you are strategically and tactically at a disadvantage to start with. That simple.

We just need 1 person to pull the trigger. I would love to be involved in this but I definitely do not have the qualifications to be the arbiter of it.

 

[RailwayMan]

Is Allen Gottleb and the Second Amendment Foundation out of Bellevue, Washington, going to help us in this fight? How about the NRA-ILA ... will they help, or are we really all alone in this battle?

 

[tiggers97]

Education over regulation. Gun accidents are down ~75% since the 1990's (CDC nationwide, Oregon Health Authority numbers), yet no one on the 'gun safety' side is asking why (or even knows).

Having these people regulate 'safety' is like having a roomful of old men in a back room, who haven't even been on a date in 20 years, trying to define how women should manage their reproductive system. ( Or; use their rules/stances against them to help them understand using analogies they understand and believe in).