Oregon Another Anti-gun Petition - Initiative 44

[Aero Denezol]

It's not about a death-blow, it's about the thousand cuts; wins in the short term are great but each is really a small step. The progressives have direction and patience; that makes a formative for in the long run.

That's exactly right. Like I've said before, their MO is slow death by paperwork, oversight, and taxes.

The conservative community really needs to take a lesson here and start hitting hard and constant against all things the left is so fond of, same sex marriage, gender confusion bathrooms, binary sex identification, drug abuse, and the list goes on and on and on...

We do need to go on offense, somehow

 

[CoastRange57]

This just came out and looks like another initiative has been filled to get additional " gun control" on the ballot. 2A is going to see the biggest onslaught of proposed gun control in Oregon that you have ever seen. You can bet your azz that the national groups have seen this and realize what a liberal breeding ground Oregon is and will be targeting the state as easy peasy to get gun control started.

New initiative targets gun safety, storage rules

 

[Joe13]

Uhg.....

 

[tourproto]

While most of 44 is total horse-pucky, the underlying sentiment is something that I understand. Why wouldn't a responsible gun-owner want to make sure that a child could not easily get access to it for ANY reason (just being curious, not necessarily to kill someone), or to make it more difficult to steal if someone broke into the house?

My hope is that most gun owners do have a safe and they use it because it is the smart thing to do. But I have read too many tragic stories about kids shooting each other by accident just out of normal curiosity. As an adult, I would have a really hard time living with myself if that happened in my home.

AR15 gun control aside, these idiots who leave loaded guns unattended in their house and have some tragic accident occur with a child are irresponsible gun owners, they shouldn't have a gun to begin with, and make life harder for the rest of us that are responsible gun owners.

Yes gun ownership is a 2A right, but it comes with certain responsibilities IMHO. I look at it the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded building for jollies. That is not protected 1A speech. That person will be punished. So should anyone leaving a loaded gun unattended ANYWHERE.

 

[Lantraxco]

While most of 44 is total horse-pucky, the underlying sentiment is something that I understand. Why wouldn't a responsible gun-owner want to make sure that a child could not easily get access to it for ANY reason (just being curious, not necessarily to kill someone), or to make it more difficult to steal if someone broke into the house?

My hope is that most gun owners do have a safe and they use it because it is the smart thing to do. But I have read too many tragic stories about kids shooting each other by accident just out of normal curiosity. As an adult, I would have a really hard time living with myself if that happened in my home.

AR15 gun control aside, these idiots who leave loaded guns unattended in their house and have some tragic accident occur with a child are irresponsible gun owners, they shouldn't have a gun to begin with, and make life harder for the rest of us that are responsible gun owners.

Yes gun ownership is a 2A right, but it comes with certain responsibilities IMHO. I look at it the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded building for jollies. That is not protected 1A speech. That person will be punished. So should anyone leaving a loaded gun unattended ANYWHERE.

Well, then what about:

"350 children under the age of five drown in pools each year nationwide.

The majority of the deaths occur in June, July and August; most in backyard pools.

Among unintentional injuries, drowning is the second leading cause of death to this age group after motor vehicle accidents. In some Sunbelt states such as California, Florida and Arizona, drowning is the leading cause of accidental death to children under five."

Move to ban all backyard pools, or at least require a pool safe and universal aquatic background checks before allowing any adult to own a pool. See?


Read more: Grim Statistics On Child Drownings | MomsTeam

 

[tourproto]

Well, then what about:

"350 children under the age of five drown in pools each year nationwide.

The majority of the deaths occur in June, July and August; most in backyard pools.

Among unintentional injuries, drowning is the second leading cause of death to this age group after motor vehicle accidents. In some Sunbelt states such as California, Florida and Arizona, drowning is the leading cause of accidental death to children under five."

Move to ban all backyard pools, or at least require a pool safe and universal aquatic background checks before allowing any adult to own a pool. See?


Read more: Grim Statistics On Child Drownings | MomsTeam

If you have a pool there should be a fence around it. That was how it was when I grew up. It was the "cost" of having a pool.

We didn't have one but two of my friends on the same street did and they had a fence around it. Again, just a smart thing to do, especially if you have young kids.

You're going a little over the top bringing up the banning of pools. I didn't bring that up in my first post at all. But if you have a gun, you should have a safe way to store it if it isn't in your control. I also didn't bring up background checks. I simply brought up the need for RESPONSIBLE ownership.

 

[mkwerx]

People making a lot of assumptions. Ever think that not every household has kids? Or that some folks teach their kids to leave guns alone?

I never, ever touched the old man's guns growing up. I knew where they were, he showed me. Also told me that IF I ever touched them, he'd beat my arse. He meant it. We didn't have a safe. Hia .38 was in the dresser drawer, a shotgun and a .30-30 were hanging on a gun rack in the closet, loaded tubes, no chambered round.

I don't need nanny government dictating how I raise my kids. Yes, *I* lock my guns up, save for my carry gun. It lives on my, or my night stand.

I also think its bullcrap that they want to male a crime victim liable for actions of the criminal that victimized them if they obtain a firearm and use it.

How about a ballot initiative banning initiatives except for recalls and referrendums. Or banning unconatitutional proposals from being put on the ballot. Oregon's AG has to look at the proposal, they can add the step of looking at it through a legal lense, and if its in contention with established federal law or settled case law from the high court, no go on the petition.

 

[bread]

Think about how this is worded. If you are within the vicinity and can "control" the firearm it doesn't have to be locked. This would cover any scenario where you are home and might need the gun. If you're not home or not within reach of the gun, it's exposed to theft or being taken up by a kid or other unsafe use.

I take this issue very personally as I am close friends with a family who lost a toddler when he found his grandpa's unattended, loaded bedside pistol. I firmly believe that your guns should be locked and unloaded when they aren't under your control.

I understand wanting to guard your guns from "grabbers" but as RESPONSIBLE gun owners, this is the kind of rule that we should SUPPORT. You handle your firearms responsibly, there should be accountability for those that don't. They are the ones causing issues that bring negative attention to the responsible owners.

Implying that better parenting would prevent curious or mischievous kids from danger greatly underestimates the deviousnous and inquisitiveness of children.

 

[mkwerx]

Think about how this is worded. If you are within the vicinity and can "control" the firearm it doesn't have to be locked. This would cover any scenario where you are home and might need the gun. If you're not home or not within reach of the gun, it's exposed to theft or being taken up by a kid or other unsafe use.

I take this issue very personally as I am close friends with a family who lost a toddler when he found his grandpa's unattended, loaded bedside pistol. I firmly believe that your guns should be locked and unloaded when they aren't under your control.

I understand wanting to guard your guns from "grabbers" but as RESPONSIBLE gun owners, this is the kind of rule that we should SUPPORT. You handle your firearms responsibly, there should be accountability for those that don't. They are the ones causing issues that bring negative attention to the responsible owners.

Implying that better parenting would prevent curious or mischievous kids from danger greatly underestimates the deviousnous and inquisitiveness of children.

No, you are attempting to force your emotion driven will upon law abiding citizens, just like the kids in Parkland.

And parenting IS the solution to most of the issues. Responsible parents teach their kids how to behave, what to do and what not to do, and keep an eye on their kids, and take steps to keep them safe.

Mandating storage laws, locks on guns, is not about responsibility it is shirking responsibility and letting a mechanical device stand in for proper parenting and supervision, and pushing the agenda on people who don't even have kids. Generations grew up in this country before gunsafes were a thing. I'd venture to say millions of kids live in homes this very second with no locks, no safes, no cabinets and are NOT killing each other.

The "its for the children" schtick is as tired coming from our side as it is the antis.

 

[bread]

Huh. Ok. Let's follow this through. Leave your guns unlocked. It's legal to do so. Leave it loaded. Nobody stopping you. Crackhead breaks in and takes it. Whoops. Kid decides to misbehave and plays with it. Kids friend comes over and doesn't know any better. Maybe any bad outcomes aren't legally your fault, but they are 100% preventable.

You said yourself, you own a safe and use it. When your neighbor doesn't and their kid shoots somebody, or shoots themselves will you just shake your head and say "it's his own fault"? We enact laws to get people to do things they should when they aren't always inclined to do so naturally. And we would do this explicitly to protect children. So to pretend that mentioning kids in this discussion is somehow illogical or overly emotional is just an attempt to uphold the status quo.

I lock my guns up. You lock your guns up. I think when some other guy doesn't, he should be accountable for the outcome.

Good discussion here.

No, you are attempting to force your emotion driven will upon law abiding citizens, just like the kids in Parkland.

And parenting IS the solution to most of the issues. Responsible parents teach their kids how to behave, what to do and what not to do, and keep an eye on their kids, and take steps to keep them safe.

Mandating storage laws, locks on guns, is not about responsibility it is shirking responsibility and letting a mechanical device stand in for proper parenting and supervision, and pushing the agenda on people who don't even have kids. Generations grew up in this country before gunsafes were a thing. I'd venture to say millions of kids live in homes this very second with no locks, no safes, no cabinets and are NOT killing each other.

The "its for the children" schtick is as tired coming from our side as it is the antis.

 

[mkwerx]

If crackhead Johnny breaks in and gets a gun, its crackhead Johnnys fault for anything that stems from it. Or likely, some judge somewhere for not locking him up previously, given the catch & release nature of the legal system.

In the example of a neighbor's kid getting the gun, yes, its on the parents. We don't need another law. There is already a statute they can be charged with, many, in fact. IF a prosecutor is willing to charge a parent that just lost a child or had one made a vegetable.

I am all for responsible gun ownership which comes in many forms. I am even more for responsible parenting, which also comes in many forms. I don't believe in more laws, or relying on a mechanical device in-lieu of proper behaviour. I also believe liberty is dangerous, and safety proofing the world from idiots is both a never ending process, and not worth the time or money. If people were held responsible socially for their actions early on, we'd have far fewer tragedies later on.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Once my kids are grown, I am declaring my house a "Child Free Zone".

There, problem solved.

 

[goatpower]

I don't understand why inanimate objects are treated differently.

My car is stolen, the thief then harms someone with it and I am, for obvious reasons, not held responsible for his/her actions.
My handgun is stolen, the thief then harms someone with it and I am, for far less obvious reasons, held responsible for his/her actions.

Both can bring the same charge of "assault with a deadly weapon."

Maybe we start a movement for equality of all objects.

 

[cigars]

So if this passes then it means that I can't pass out loose cigarettes and ammo to the trick or treaters?

 

[Connor Murphy]

So if this passes then it means that I can't pass out loose cigarettes and ammo to the trick or treaters?

You do that too?

 

[Scot4ever]

There's nothing unbelievable about any of this. The only way to stop this nonsense is to get out and VOTE when the opportunity is there. Personally I'd like to see a law that takes voting registration away from anyone who fails to vote and have them go re-register.
Anyone who is laboring under the misconception that they won't get enough signatures to put both of these bills on the November ballot has their head in the sand.

 

[billdeserthills]

It's not about a death-blow, it's about the thousand cuts; wins in the short term are great but each is really a small step. The progressives have direction and patience; that makes a formative for in the long run.

I'm pretty sure when they lose they have to pay the court costs including the nra's lawyer fees

 

[Will_White]

Huh. Ok. Let's follow this through. Leave your guns unlocked. It's legal to do so. Leave it loaded. Nobody stopping you. Crackhead breaks in and takes it. Whoops. Kid decides to misbehave and plays with it. Kids friend comes over and doesn't know any better. Maybe any bad outcomes aren't legally your fault, but they are 100% preventable.

You said yourself, you own a safe and use it. When your neighbor doesn't and their kid shoots somebody, or shoots themselves will you just shake your head and say "it's his own fault"? We enact laws to get people to do things they should when they aren't always inclined to do so naturally. And we would do this explicitly to protect children. So to pretend that mentioning kids in this discussion is somehow illogical or overly emotional is just an attempt to uphold the status quo.

I lock my guns up. You lock your guns up. I think when some other guy doesn't, he should be accountable for the outcome.

Good discussion here.

Why should I have to lock up my guns when I don't have kids, my friends have no kids, I don't ever have kids in my house. For the children doesn't work when there's no children to save from the evil guns.

 

[billdeserthills]

Huh. Ok. Let's follow this through. Leave your guns unlocked. It's legal to do so. Leave it loaded. Nobody stopping you. Crackhead breaks in and takes it. Whoops. Kid decides to misbehave and plays with it. Kids friend comes over and doesn't know any better. Maybe any bad outcomes aren't legally your fault, but they are 100% preventable.

You said yourself, you own a safe and use it. When your neighbor doesn't and their kid shoots somebody, or shoots themselves will you just shake your head and say "it's his own fault"? We enact laws to get people to do things they should when they aren't always inclined to do so naturally. And we would do this explicitly to protect children. So to pretend that mentioning kids in this discussion is somehow illogical or overly emotional is just an attempt to uphold the status quo.

I lock my guns up. You lock your guns up. I think when some other guy doesn't, he should be accountable for the outcome.

Good discussion here.

People should be free enough to decide how they store their guns, food cars and whatever else We own

 

[Mark W.]

That would put the state in legal responsibility. If passed, one could make the case that due to the law they were unable to obtain their life saving tool in time.

Id love to see the state sued back to the stone age over such a stupid law.

You mean we the tax payers are sued back to the stoneage. We pay the settlements.