Oregon Another Anti-gun Petition - Initiative 44

[ZA_Survivalist]

You mean we the tax payers are sued back to the stoneage. We pay the settlements.

Its already spent anyhow.

 

[SUPER X]

http://oregonvotes.org/irr/2018/044text.pdf

New mandatory storage requirements.

All firearms not under direct control must be individually trigger locked or locked in individual containers.

These Idiots should be Deported

 

[tourproto]

Why should I have to lock up my guns when I don't have kids, my friends have no kids, I don't ever have kids in my house. For the children doesn't work when there's no children to save from the evil guns.

Just out of curiosity, do you wear a seatbelt when driving? Did you do so before it was required by law? For me the answer was yes to both. It's just the smart thing to do even though I am a safe driver.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, we wouldn't even have seat belts in cars in the first place if it wasn't for a government law requiring them.

Do you also think that the civil rights laws and Title IX laws were unnecessary? And that as a society we were just going to start treating minorities better and give girls equal opportunities in sports because it was the right thing to do? If you do, I've got a great bridge for sale in Brooklyn

This isn't just "for the kids", although those are the heartstrings the petitioners are tugging on. The underlying sentiment is good, for where we are in society today, it's just responsible gun ownership to have a gunsafe.

Don't get me wrong, I am for less government, not more, but in some cases we just need to nudge people in the right direction.

Fyi, I am not for all aspects of 44 by any means, but I would be in support specifically for guns being in a safe when not in use or immediate control (nightstand at bedtime). Sorry if we disagree here.

 

[Levetti]

Just out of curiosity, do you wear a seatbelt when driving? Did you do so before it was required by law? For me the answer was yes to both. It's just the smart thing to do even though I am a safe driver.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, we wouldn't even have seat belts in cars in the first place if it wasn't for a government law requiring them.

Do you also think that the civil rights laws and Title IX laws were unnecessary? And that as a society we were just going to start treating minorities better and give girls equal opportunities in sports because it was the right thing to do? If you do, I've got a great bridge for sale in Brooklyn

This isn't just "for the kids", although those are the heartstrings the petitioners are tugging on. The underlying sentiment is good, for where we are in society today, it's just responsible gun ownership to have a gunsafe.

Don't get me wrong, I am for less government, not more, but in some cases we just need to nudge people in the right direction.

Fyi, I am not for all aspects of 44 by any means, but I would be in support specifically for guns being in a safe when not in use or immediate control (nightstand at bedtime). Sorry if we disagree here.

I don't want to argue because I do respect your right to voice your opinion, but I do disagree with basically everything you said here. And on top of that you pulled the "it's just the smart thing to do" argument, which is the same as the "it's only common sense" argument. The government and it's laws don't guide my moral principles and I don't need any "nudge in the right direction."

 

[Will_White]

Just out of curiosity, do you wear a seatbelt when driving? Did you do so before it was required by law? For me the answer was yes to both. It's just the smart thing to do even though I am a safe driver.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, we wouldn't even have seat belts in cars in the first place if it wasn't for a government law requiring them.

Do you also think that the civil rights laws and Title IX laws were unnecessary? And that as a society we were just going to start treating minorities better and give girls equal opportunities in sports because it was the right thing to do? If you do, I've got a great bridge for sale in Brooklyn

This isn't just "for the kids", although those are the heartstrings the petitioners are tugging on. The underlying sentiment is good, for where we are in society today, it's just responsible gun ownership to have a gunsafe.

Don't get me wrong, I am for less government, not more, but in some cases we just need to nudge people in the right direction.

Fyi, I am not for all aspects of 44 by any means, but I would be in support specifically for guns being in a safe when not in use or immediate control (nightstand at bedtime). Sorry if we disagree here.

I do wear a seatbelt, and I also secure my non defensive guns, but that doesn't mean I think the government should mandate everybody lock up their guns. The civil rights laws are different, they codified rights that already existed, this measure only restricts your rights.

The only way this has validity is "for the children", an action lock that can be cut with a pair of pliers isn't going to stop a theif from stealing a gun, neither is a Walmart special sheet metal "safe" if they really want it.

 

[nwslopoke]

What a crock!! And tell me this lady, if someone is breaking into your house do you want to have mess with removing the trigger lock from your firearm or do you want it at the ready in case you have to defend yourself???

For decades they were saying, stay out of my bedroom. They need to listen to their ownmessage.

Also, behind my locked door is all anyone needs to know. If you have the need to see behind my door open yours first. For real not just some hypothetical. For real. That means you have to adapt to my moral standards. This is not the path we want to take.

 

[JRuby]

While most of 44 is total horse-pucky, the underlying sentiment is something that I understand. Why wouldn't a responsible gun-owner want to make sure that a child could not easily get access to it for ANY reason (just being curious, not necessarily to kill someone), or to make it more difficult to steal if someone broke into the house?

My hope is that most gun owners do have a safe and they use it because it is the smart thing to do. But I have read too many tragic stories about kids shooting each other by accident just out of normal curiosity. As an adult, I would have a really hard time living with myself if that happened in my home.

AR15 gun control aside, these idiots who leave loaded guns unattended in their house and have some tragic accident occur with a child are irresponsible gun owners, they shouldn't have a gun to begin with, and make life harder for the rest of us that are responsible gun owners.

Yes gun ownership is a 2A right, but it comes with certain responsibilities IMHO. I look at it the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded building for jollies. That is not protected 1A speech. That person will be punished. So should anyone leaving a loaded gun unattended ANYWHERE.

I do not have kids - and for anyone to come into my home without my permission is breaking the law. Please explain to me why I need to keep the firearms I have at the ready locked up.

I do have a safe and 95% of my firearms are locked up but I really don't want to ask the robber or worse to wait for me to get my pistol.

 

[tourproto]

I do not have kids - and for anyone to come into my home without my permission is breaking the law. Please explain to me why I need to keep the firearms I have at the ready locked up.

I do have a safe and 95% of my firearms are locked up but I really don't want to ask the robber or worse to wait for me to get my pistol.

Actually we agree here (I think). If you have no kids in the house and your defensive gun (or guns) is out and loaded, I've got no problem with that at all. Keep it on your desk, your nightstand, your toilet, I don't care. They are in your effective immediate control.

BUT, if you did have some friends over, and they had little kids, would you still leave those guns out "unattended"? I understand you don't have kids etc. but in that situation, it probably wouldn't be prudent to have those guns lying around. You would probably conceal one on your body and lock the rest up. And if for some reason you had multiple defensive handguns "out in the open" in your home and you left for the day, you would probably take one with you, and presumably lock the rest up? Even if I were in your situation, I would lock up and "other" guns lying around if I left my home. It's just the responsible thing to do.

I understand your point about, hey my front door is locked, stay out of my house and away from my things, but that is just sticking your head in the sand. Do you leave your car unlocked out on the street? I doubt it. Because bad people do bad things when the opportunity strikes. You can't legislate or educate away bad people, never going to happen. Having a gun safe for unattended guns is just a good thing to do. Most people on this forum probably do it. My guess is many of the masses do not, and that is where the problem is. 2A or no 2A, gun ownership comes with responsibilities.

 

[JRuby]

If you have a pool there should be a fence around it. That was how it was when I grew up. It was the "cost" of having a pool.

We didn't have one but two of my friends on the same street did and they had a fence around it. Again, just a smart thing to do, especially if you have young kids.

You're going a little over the top bringing up the banning of pools. I didn't bring that up in my first post at all. But if you have a gun, you should have a safe way to store it if it isn't in your control. I also didn't bring up background checks. I simply brought up the need for RESPONSIBLE ownership.

We group up with a pond in our backyard se

Actually we agree here (I think). If you have no kids in the house and your defensive gun (or guns) is out and loaded, I've got no problem with that at all. Keep it on your desk, your nightstand, your toilet, I don't care. They are in your effective immediate control.

BUT, if you did have some friends over, and they had little kids, would you still leave those guns out "unattended"? I understand you don't have kids etc. but in that situation, it probably wouldn't be prudent to have those guns lying around. You would probably conceal one on your body and lock the rest up. And if for some reason you had multiple defensive handguns "out in the open" in your home and you left for the day, you would probably take one with you, and presumably lock the rest up? Even if I were in your situation, I would lock up and "other" guns lying around if I left my home. It's just the responsible thing to do.

I understand your point about, hey my front door is locked, stay out of my house and away from my things, but that is just sticking your head in the sand. Do you leave your car unlocked out on the street? I doubt it. Because bad people do bad things when the opportunity strikes. You can't legislate or educate away bad people, never going to happen. Having a gun safe for unattended guns is just a good thing to do. Most people on this forum probably do it. My guess is many of the masses do not, and that is where the problem is. 2A or no 2A, gun ownership comes with responsibilities.

First off their kids do not belong in my bedroom secondly my home is my home. Inside my home you nor anyone else should have any say in what I do as long as I am not committing a crime. Having a or leaving a gun in my nightstand should be perfectly legal.

 

[JRuby]

We group up with a pond in our backyard se

First off their kids do not belong in my bedroom secondly my home is my home. Inside my home you nor anyone else should have any say in what I do as long as I am not committing a crime. Having a or leaving a gun in my nightstand should be perfectly legal.

We grew up with a pond in our back yard. Our neighbors if they wanted to go swimming or fishing would ask. To me this is more a problem of parenting than fences. Their were no fences and no one died for drowning - what a magical time - people actually had respect for others and their property.

 

[tourproto]

I don't want to argue because I do respect your right to voice your opinion, but I do disagree with basically everything you said here. And on top of that you pulled the "it's just the smart thing to do" argument, which is the same as the "it's only common sense" argument. The government and it's laws don't guide my moral principles and I don't need any "nudge in the right direction."

I appreciate that and respect your opinion as well. But I'll point out your last statement "The government and it's laws don't guide my moral principles and I don't need any "nudge in the right direction."", I imagine folks in the KKK said the same thing, and they were wrong.

Not implying you or I or gun owners are anything like the KKK, but sometimes laws are needed to direct the right behaviors. I feel that way in this case.

Car accident deaths decreased after seatbelt laws were put in place, because "common sense" didn't work and a lot of people just weren't using them. I believe the same will apply here. Not just for the kids, but for losing guns due to burglaries and having crimes committed with those weapons.

 

[tourproto]

what a magical time - people actually had respect for others and their property.

Yes but those days don't exist anymore and they aren't coming back anytime soon. So we have to deal with the situation we have.

 

[JRuby]

I appreciate that and respect your opinion as well. But I'll point out your last statement "The government and it's laws don't guide my moral principles and I don't need any "nudge in the right direction."", I imagine folks in the KKK said the same thing, and they were wrong.

Not implying you or I or gun owners are anything like the KKK, but sometimes laws are needed to direct the right behaviors. I feel that way in this case.

Car accident deaths decreased after seatbelt laws were put in place, because "common sense" didn't work and a lot of people just weren't using them. I believe the same will apply here. Not just for the kids, but for losing guns due to burglaries and having crimes committed with those weapons.

I am really getting tired of the government trying to protect me from myself. A reasonable man would ask themselves what is in their best

Yes but those days don't exist anymore and they aren't coming back anytime soon. So we have to deal with the situation we have.

How about pushing for better parenting skills instead of telling us how we should handle our firearms. It is your mind set saying that those days our gone is what makes those days gone. When people are once again held accountable for their actions those days will come back.

 

[DB is Here]

Actually we agree here (I think). If you have no kids in the house and your defensive gun (or guns) is out and loaded, I've got no problem with that at all. Keep it on your desk, your nightstand, your toilet, I don't care. They are in your effective immediate control.

BUT, if you did have some friends over, and they had little kids, would you still leave those guns out "unattended"? I understand you don't have kids etc. but in that situation, it probably wouldn't be prudent to have those guns lying around. You would probably conceal one on your body and lock the rest up. And if for some reason you had multiple defensive handguns "out in the open" in your home and you left for the day, you would probably take one with you, and presumably lock the rest up? Even if I were in your situation, I would lock up and "other" guns lying around if I left my home. It's just the responsible thing to do.

I understand your point about, hey my front door is locked, stay out of my house and away from my things, but that is just sticking your head in the sand. Do you leave your car unlocked out on the street? I doubt it. Because bad people do bad things when the opportunity strikes. You can't legislate or educate away bad people, never going to happen. Having a gun safe for unattended guns is just a good thing to do. Most people on this forum probably do it. My guess is many of the masses do not, and that is where the problem is. 2A or no 2A, gun ownership comes with responsibilities.

I agree with the sentiment of securing your guns that aren't in your control, but why wouldn't we do PSA's vs another law? Curious..

 

[IOM]

Does this mean firearms on display in your home will not be tolerated...???

 

[tourproto]

I am really getting tired of the government trying to protect me from myself. A reasonable man would ask themselves what is in their best

How about pushing for better parenting skills instead of telling us how we should handle our firearms. It is your mind set saying that those days our gone is what makes those days gone. When people are once again held accountable for their actions those days will come back.

You won't get an argument for me in either case, but the reason laws exist in the first place is because people don't do the right things to start with.

I'm not going to change your mind, and you won't change my mind. I just hope smarter people than me can figure out some way to address all this "stuff". But grabbing or banning guns definitely isn't the solution (I think we all agree on that) so something needs to be done to minimize the needless deaths.

 

[tourproto]

I agree with the sentiment of securing your guns that aren't in your control, but why wouldn't we do PSA's vs another law? Curious..

I don't have any stats, but IMHO, PSAs don't work. They are just "feel good" commercials to make some people feel like they are doing "something". Maybe they do more good than I think they do.

Again, smarter people than me need to work on this at the state and national level.

 

[DB is Here]

I don't have any stats, but IMHO, PSAs don't work. They are just "feel good" commercials to make some people feel like they are doing "something". Maybe they do more good than I think they do.

Again, smarter people than me need to work on this at the state and national level.

I appreciate the dialogue, I think the frustration is it's another law on those of us that haven't done anything...but I digress.

 

[tourproto]

I appreciate the dialogue, I think the frustration is it's another law on those of us that haven't done anything...but I digress.

I think the majority of us on this site are the 99%ers when it comes to responsible gun ownership. And I get being "bent out of shape" regarding new laws because of the stupidity of others, but there are a LOT of stupid people out there, unfortunately.

 

[DB is Here]

I think the majority of us on this site are the 99%ers when it comes to responsible gun ownership. And I get being "bent out of shape" regarding new laws because of the stupidity of others, but there are a LOT of stupid people out there, unfortunately.

Fair enough, but We have more than enough gun laws (20,000 Federal, State & Local) to punish said stupidity. Every law we pass can feel like another noose around this thing we call Freedom.