An honest question for people posting for sale adds.

[snarlingdog]

Not adding to the OP's concern, here.
As far as established members here on the forum, I'd be comfortable dealing with them, more than someone who pops on, registers, just to respond to a listed item. Interaction around here speaks a LOT.

Honestly that has been most of the will you ship offers I get on here. New member from somewhere midwest asking me to ship and then blowing up on me when I say no thanks. I dont like taking unnecessary risks.

 

[2A2Dend]

"I" understand the concerns and risks, and deal with the way things are regarding the sellers concern.
Given this, some things I elect to not list, and/or even respond to a listed item. Convenient? This depends on both parties.
I try to look at things from both perspectives. We "established' members are here as a unified bunch, for the most.
If "I" list something, I do my best to accommodate. This place is a pretty tight group of like minded.

I'm just babbling. It's personal preference in the end.

 

[CountryGent]

A transfer has to take place between 2 FFL's.

From ATF (emphasis added):

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?​

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.​

 

[Used To Hunt]

Countless times on this forum and others. People will list things for sale, but will not ship. It honestly does not make any sense. If you are going to spend the time and effort to place an add. Set up a meeting place for a ftf transaction. You could have spent the very same time and effort to go to a Post Office. People put things on the web to increase there chances of selling. It is a "World Wide Web" Not just a Portland web site or a Seattle only web site. I would like to say that the seller is lazy. But the same effort is involved in both transactions. It simply makes no sense especially when you can print labels at home . Then let the carrier take the package. That's less effort than the other 2 ways. I bought 2,500 rounds of ammo from a member here in Portland and he shipped me 5 boxes that were very heavy. But a guy in the Portland area will not ship 3 pistol mags. What is wrong with this pic? Rant over. Fell free to beat me against the wall................

I WANT IT MY WAY!

 

[gmerkt]

Every transaction is a different story, involves different details. Some people just can't handle the variables. Particularly with gun stuff which has restrictions involved with many items. I ship when the situation makes sense. I've sold stuff online for many years and I'm prepared to sort out the variables and ship when I can. Powder, that has to be face-to-face one way or the other; shipping issues are too much for me on this subject. Ditto primers. Finished ammo, same story because even if a buyer is prepared to pay high UPS retail charges, I have to go somewhere to do the shipping. Of course USPS won't ship finished ammo. Brass and bullet components, no problem. Firearms, I've done this before. But it's gotten to be an expensive hassle to ship. Even if the buyer pays shipping, I'm not an FFL so I have to pay one to do the work. Invariably, they tack a profit p.c. onto the shipping as well. So a common gun, I just flog it locally. If that takes overly long, I leave it on consignment with a storefront FFL. No matter how weird, unusual, common or whatever, just about anything will eventually sell if the price is in the ballpark. I don't know what the psychology is; an FFL dealer frequently can get more out of a gun than a private seller.

If I have something unusual to sell, that is a Gunbroker item. The sales commission and the charges for shipping through an FFL dealer are usually worth the trouble. Long guns, we can still ship as individuals to a receiving FFL dealer, if same will accept such shipments. Still, I think I've done this for the last time.

About UPS. Remember, an individual is going to be paying retail rates. Companies can set up commercial accounts and get corporate rates which are less. Also, common carriers typically cause firearms shipments to be channeled into their most expensive products out of security concerns.

Gun shows. I used to take my cast-offs and extras to the WAC gun show; I'd have a table about once a year. No more, that all went down the dumper hole with I-594 and especially I-1639. The WAC show is still good for ammo and components but gun transactions have become such a headache now. I wonder how long those shows are gonna keep going. WAC recently bought their own office building that has a bit of extra space in it. Eventually they may be able to hold their shows in that place; they will only need room for about ten tables and fifty people.

 

[etrain16]

From ATF (emphasis added):

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?​

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.​

So, here's where it gets to be an issue. You have the ATF's rules, and the individual state's rules. In Oregon, we're bound by SB-941 when it comes to transfers between 2 parties (assuming they're not on the short list of exceptions), in WA, you have I-639 regulating transfers between private parties.

The ATF says I can sell a firearm to any unlicensed resident of my state, if I have no reasonable cause to believe that person is prohibited. SB-941 says BS, you have to go through an FFL. In this case, state law supersedes federal law, for in-state transfers between private parties.

And that's where it gets complicated for private sellers, especially if they want to ship a gun. You have to know state and federal law, when an FFL is required, what kind of shipping you can use for certain firearms, etc.

For those not up to speed, or maybe don't have an FFL that can help answer the questions, the fact to face at an FFL is probably the safest way to avoid a potential problem. For those up to speed on the rules, it can be a fairly simple process.

 

[Member 34319]

Been scammed enough to not mess around with things as much as I used to.

I state if I'll ship and for what price in my ad if I state I'll ship it. I will not for whatever reason ship guns anymore, it's just not worth it for me. I live in the more populated area so if it doesn't sell in the area, it doesn't sell.

No offense OP but it kind of sounds like you were butt hurt someone wouldn't ship something to you that you really wanted.

Not the sellers fault. Even if they didn't state it in their ad. If you asked and they said no, be it that, move on.

In my opinion the seller gets to make the calls, the more lenient they are, the more they open themselves up to problems.

I tried going out of my way for sales, it can go sideways fast. My product sells at my store. My product may or may not ship on my terms. I am fair, communicate fast and easily, and usually end up with green numbers vs red ones.

 

[CountryGent]

For those concerned about shipping to an FFL, and by what carrier, from ATF.

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across State lines?​

​

Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns and other concealable firearms are not mailable through the United States Postal Service and must be shipped via private common or contract carrier (18 U.S.C. § 1715). The USPS and private common or contract carriers may also have additional restrictions on firearms shipments by unlicensed persons. Firearms shipped to FFLs for repair or any other lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipient's State of residence. FFLs may also return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received (18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A)). An ATF Form 4473 is required for the return of the firearm, except in instances when a firearm is delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing, and the same firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received (27 CFR § 478.124(a)).​

​

Cheers.

 

[ColeInOregon]

I just chock it up to they dont want my money. Also that means I won't buy from said seller in the future when their item,that I wanted, doesn't sell. Two way street and all.

 

[Alexx1401]

From ATF (emphasis added):

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?​

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.​

Last gun I tried to sell a few who claimed to be an FFL holder wanted me to ship it to them. Even though I had seen this, that it would be legal, I just did not want to try it. Told them if they wanted me to ship only way would be they pick a local FFL who they wanted to use. I take the gun to the local, he pays me with their money. All declined of course as this would have added some cost to the mix. To me it was not worth selling the gun any other way if I shipped. It will sit in the safe until maybe one day I use it in a trade on some other gun now with the new laws here.

 

[CountryGent]

Last gun I tried to sell a few who claimed to be an FFL holder wanted me to ship it to them. Even though I had seen this, that it would be legal, I just did not want to try it. Told them if they wanted me to ship only way would be they pick a local FFL who they wanted to use. I take the gun to the local, he pays me with their money. All declined of course as this would have added some cost to the mix. To me it was not worth selling the gun any other way if I shipped. It will sit in the safe until maybe one day I use it in a trade on some other gun now with the new laws here.

I wouldn't take anyone's word on it either. I will not ship to an FFL unless I have a copy of their current, signed license. I then I confirm everything on ATF's EZ Check. If that all lines up, I've done my due diligence and move forward. To each their own.

 

[Alexx1401]

I wouldn't take anyone's word on it either. I will not ship to an FFL unless I have a copy of their current, signed license. I then I confirm everything on ATF's EZ Check. If that all lines up, I've done my due diligence and move forward. To each their own.

Yeah a couple people here said there was some way to check online to make sure it was a legit FFL I was shipping to. For a gun I was selling for a few hundred bucks it was just not worth it to me. After I shipped the damn thing it would have nagged at me for a long time wondering. Also did not "need" the cash, just no longer wanted the gun. So it still to this day sits in the safe taking up room. Being an "assault rifle" in this state now looks like it will just stay a safe queen unless I decide to use it in trade one day or my kids get it when I die

 

[CountryGent]

True enough that we all have our comfort zones. One isn't even required to ship to the address on the FFL's license, as long as the receiver is the licensee, but I can tell you there is no way, no how I would ship to anything other than what is shown on that license. In 20+ years of buying and selling online, as both a private collector and an FFL, it has not come up. But if it did, end of deal.

 

[The Heretic]

Not to mention PayPal protects you.

I have read of PayPal refunding money to people who got an item but said they didn't, and then the seller is out that amount?

I don't have too much of a problem with sellers who won't ship. It is a bit of a hassle/etc. - their choice - maybe they just don't want to deal with it?

 

[Mikej]

I once drove from PDX to Grants Pass to buy something. But that's just because I refused to let the seller ship it to me. It was a nice road trip for Wifey and I. We left really early and did the deal before noon. Got some lunch and drove part way home, got a motel and had dinner at a Mexican joint. Drove the rest of the way home the next morning. Mini vacation!

 

[Alexx1401]

I have read of PayPal refunding money to people who got an item but said they didn't, and then the seller is out that amount?

I don't have too much of a problem with sellers who won't ship. It is a bit of a hassle/etc. - their choice - maybe they just don't want to deal with it?

Yes if the buyer funded the PP account with a credit card, PP has really no choice but to refund. Then of course they take the money back from seller. It is a real risk. Now if you use tracking with a signature required? I am not sure what they (PP) would do. Probably take the route of least resistance and shaft the seller. Seller could I am sure fight it but who knows what hoops you would have to jump through. The protections CC's offer in the US are so good I have often figured there has got to be some taking advantage of it. I would have to guess the banks have some certain limit on it before they would do something? They would have to or some would of course abuse the system badly.

 

[ColeInOregon]

I have read of PayPal refunding money to people who got an item but said they didn't, and then the seller is out that amount?

I don't have too much of a problem with sellers who won't ship. It is a bit of a hassle/etc. - their choice - maybe they just don't want to deal with it?

This is why you never use the gift option, buyer pays the extra, but you both win in the end.

 

[Fishonshawn]

I didn't read through all the posts but seriously boohoo. He wont ship something to you so you start a thread complaining about it. You sound like kids now days. Self entitled thinking everyone should bend over backwards for you. Sometimes people dont live right next door to a post office. Not to mention when I do have to go to the PO it's always an hour+ wait. You want it bad enough drive to go get it or just say owell. All of us miss out on good deals sometimes because of location. And sometimes it works in your favor.