Am I the only one who things that flashlights on weapons are counterproductive?

[WillametteWill]

Here we go again...

Some people prefer pointing their WML and also their guns those are attached to at things they haven't identified.

That doesn't work for me since I prefer to defend my house with more personal weapons like a combat axe even though I have plenty of firearms.

No, thats called searching. You should not be pointing a gun at anyone you have not first 100% positively identified, first. Use the WML to aim, not identify. Use a flashlight to identify.

My finger isn't on the trigger yet, so I can quickly lower my weapon in that case.

Humble opinion here, but I think some people (general observation, not pointing out anyone here) greatly underestimate the effect of stress. It's more difficult, it takes practice, but a handheld light is infinitely more versatile. It's fine to have a WML as well, but they are not an either-or. A handheld light provides the advantage of pointing the light and gun in two different directions. Anyone who thinks they are not likely to point the light and gun at someone/thing they are trying to identify and the threat level, IMHO, is not accurately assessing what we mortal humans do under stress. As to the finger on the trigger, there are studies that show that highly trained folks will still conduct "trigger confirmations" (putting their fingers in the trigger) and not know they are doing it. Add startle response (from a Lego on the floor or a scream) and now we have the potential for disaster.

Having searched lots of buildings for bad guys, knowing there could be good guys, I still only use a handheld light for this while holding a handgun. If you are using the Harries technique, your flashlight is still near your gun making your a target. FBI technique, you can get it away from you. There are studies for incoming hit percentage based on light position. Further away, lower incoming hits. Not a surprise.

You do know that a WML lights a whole room right? You don't have to point it at someone to see them? I could point my WML straight behind me and still have enough bounce light to ID someone in front of me. I only point the light at you if I want to completely blind you, and if I do that I probably have made the decision you are are least worth considering shooting.

I find this not true with most lights. "I have too much light on my target to identify them and if they are a threat." (Said no one ever.)

Again, stress, we will likely move the light to maximize illumination and now we are pointing a gun at a possibly still unidentified target. Some lights (Surefire) have a more even beam, Streamlights have a hotter center. Not everyone can afford to sport a $330 light on the front of their guns.

I run the Clapper...

...attached to a quasar foyer lamp, and a LRAD 450XL that faces the door.

And finally, for some humor, I'm picturing a strobe light going off and on as someone cranks off .15 splits.

And I want to know if @Xaevian has a light on the combat axe???

 

[monkeybutler]

I think if an intruder enters your home, it just became a battlefield.

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[Indy62]

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[Nosferatu]

It'd be a lot easier if the dumb bastards had a flashlight dangling from their necks.

Or a noose.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

But, we are not on a battlefield, and there is no way I am am gonna shoot defensively without solid target ID.

True...

However many of the same lessons still apply...and more importantly...
Have worked for me.....
If what I said don't work for you..or you don't like it....
Do what you want...and I will continue to do what has worked for me.
Andy

 

[Xaevian]

And I want to know if @Xaevian has a light on the combat axe???

No, I don't want them to see me naked. I am brutal, but not cruel. Not a last vision of life I wish on anyone!

 

[monkeybutler]

True...

However many of the same lessons still apply...and more importantly...
Have worked for me.....
If what I said don't work for you..or you don't like it....
Do what you want...and I will continue to do what has worked for me.
Andy

Yeah i would not use a flashlight in probably a lot of situations you've been in. And i certainly would not use anything other than a momentary pressure switch unless a situation was fully secured. But inside the home defense or where the threat is an animal, flashlight seems smart. So I don't shoot my sleepwalking girlfriend.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

But, we are not on a battlefield, and there is no way I am am gonna shoot defensively without solid target ID.

It would be wise to....
Re-read what I posted. and not assume what I am going to do.

I did not say what I was going to do....I simply stated my dislike of lights on firearms..and some of my reasoning of why.

Survival on the battlefield , as well as home defense is far more than "shoot defensively without solid target ID."
Andy

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

I live out in the country and it's pitch black outside. I leave my porch lights on, so if I step outside, I'm already a lit up target. The flashlight lets me identify my target and illuminate surrounding areas. It's absolutely necessary. Plus, they switch on and off, if I need stealth, don't switch it on.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Yeah i would not use a flashlight in probably a lot of situations you've been in. And i certainly would not use anything other than a momentary pressure switch unless a situation was fully secured. But inside the home defense or where the threat is an animal, flashlight seems smart. So I don't shoot my sleepwalking girlfriend.

Again....
I don't care what you do...or how you do things.

Run a light...if that works for you....then great.
Do as you wish and what works for you.

I won't do as many others do....because what I have done in the past worked for me...and this includes the not so distant past.
Andy

 

[monkeybutler]

Eew.

 

[CountryGent]

I would have to unplug my stereo set up to blast Baby Shark on repeat to plug those in, so a no from me.

The use of "Baby Shark" would not only be disproportionate use of force, but a crime against humanity.

 

[wired]

The use of "Baby Shark" would not only be disproportionate use of force, but a crime against humanity.

It would also initiate a violent response

 

[Koda]

Humble opinion here, but I think some people (general observation, not pointing out anyone here) greatly underestimate the effect of stress. It's more difficult, it takes practice, but a handheld light is infinitely more versatile. It's fine to have a WML as well, but they are not an either-or.

100% this. Plus the rest he said.

I had a bump in the night once and my daughter scared the living bubblegum outta me. Really glad I wasn't searching the house with my WML.

Searching with a WML is a recipe for disaster. I learned first hand what sudden stress can do to your logic and plan, so Ive even decided to keep my gun holstered if possible. A bump in the night does not mean my lifes in danger until Ive positively identified a threat. I don't want to greet, or be startled, by anyone thats not a threat with a gun in hand.

If family we will have a laugh. Neighbor it would be WTF are you doing in my home? LEO? Don't know about you but I don't have any coming into my home in pitch black darkness. I do have to wonder about people who have Neighbors or LEO walking around in their home in total darkness.

There has been too many news stories of cops who shot home owners searching their houses with guns in hand. Its changed my strategy. Someone entering a house might have a cop hot on their tail. I realize some things are next to no chances but there are people in jail today for shooting someone who didn't live there that was drunk and thought they arrived at their home. I realize that if someone is clearly in my house identified as a threat thats totally different, except if I know that for a fact Im barricading and calling the cops (literally inviting them inside, my gun will be holstered when they arrive).

Im not a pro, just sharing my thoughts on this. I think its more complicated than many realize. People go out and buy the latest tactical gadgets (myself included) but almost no one here has stated theyve taken WML training (myself included). Theres some good videos and articles on this subject from professional trainers to be had with an evening web search and some reading. If I dont have time or money to take a class Im going to start there before I implement using a new device.

 

[Indy62]

If someone fired a Baby Shark at me, I'd have to respond with a full mag of Trololo

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Lights on firearms.....
Use 'em or not....
Use at times...use 'em all the time....

It's your house and your life...do as you see fit and best for you.

Speaking only for myself...
I won't use a light on a firearm.
As I have said before ....in my actual experience they are a bullet magnet.

For me this subject ain't a theoretical exercise.
I have had to clear rooms and buildings in order to survive.
And yes...I understand that the way the Army taught me...and the things that I had to do in combat may not always transfer so well over to civilian life and usage....

However I can say that for me...many of those skills and lessons have.

I also have had to clear my house and yard in the recent past...all done without a firearm mounted light.
And guess what ....it worked...I am here and the job was done without loss or harm to anyone...a damn good ending for all.

See the thing is....

What works for you...may not work for someone else.
And....
What works one time , may not work another time.
Defense is not something that should be set in stone.
Do what works...learn from experience....be flexible in your thinking...since life does not give a damn about your :
Thinking...
Experience....
Plans...
Or anything else.
Andy

 

[pizzamike]

Duty guns - Light mounted
EDC - I prefer handheld

 

[sobo]

but almost no one here has stated theyve taken WML training (myself included).

I have. Twice. I'm scheduled for another class this fall. That'll make it thrice.

 

[monkeybutler]

I have. Twice. I'm scheduled for another class this fall. that'll make it thrice.

Where is that offered?

 

[sobo]

Where is that offered?

Kennewick. But it's an advanced tactics class from my trainer, so in order to be enrolled, you would have to fulfill two prerequisite trainings first. After that, a significant portion of his training offerings opens up for you.

I've taken more than a dozen different trainings from this outfit, and a few of them more than once. Like the Low-Light/No-Light training we're talking about.