wolf pack poisoned, Union county

[ZigZagZeke]

wolves are a natural part of the evosystem. want healthy game herds? you gotta have wolves.

I seem to remember healthy game herds throughout my 75 years on the planet without wolves.

hunters dont take sick game. if you want hunting to replace predators, you better be willing to spend your tag on mangy deer and elk. are you? no? oh.. then you need wolves.

Hunters don't take sick game and neither do wolves. And without the wolves spreading CWD in their feces we wouldn't have to worry about "mangy deer and elk". And no, we don't need wolves. We got along without them for a century, and our ungulate herds did just fine.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Wolf Pack Poisoned In Union County | News Radio 1190 KEX | Portland Local News

Oregon State Police are asking for help identifying the suspect, or suspects, in the poisoning of wolves in eastern Oregon.

1190kex.iheart.com

this story just appeared on the news this morning but looks like it actually happened last spring. I don't remember seeing anything about it.

Somebody is a hero.

 

[RVTECH]

It's all a long-term "political"goal meant to decimate the livelihoods of the "self-sufficient type" and ultimately drive everyone into the cities to keep the population concentrated where it's easier to make them dependent on someone else to supply the necessities of life, and exert control over the populace.

Interesting you post this because a former sister in law of mine once told me how she believed this is how society as a whole should eventually become.

She believed 'citizens' should all live in 'communal housing' and no one should be allowed to own rural property.

She went on and on with her rambling but the funny part was it all started over my talking about my private well. She believed private wells should be controlled and essentially 'owned' by the state and that owners be billed for X amount of water use per month, just like those on city water systems.

Other than her stone cold craziness she was pretty hot and fun to party with. We actually got 'accused' of getting a little too 'close' during family get togethers and often 'disappearing' together - but it was for other reasons....

 

[The B]

I seem to remember healthy game herds throughout my 75 years on the planet without wolves.



Hunters don't take sick game and neither do wolves. And without the wolves spreading CWD in their feces we wouldn't have to worry about "mangy deer and elk". And no, we don't need wolves. We got along without them for a century, and our ungulate herds did just fine.

ive ignored most of the ignorant replies ive gotten, but i havent yet seen one more patently and provably false, so you get the response. wolves dont spread CWD, living deer with CWD spread CWD.

wolves take sick game. its literally what they do, its why evolution has allowed them to exist, its their function. as with all scavenging predators. or do your 75 years somehow not cover the whole of the 90s when herd disease outbreaks started the conversation on wolf reintroduction? its how this whole train got out of the goddamn station.

i googled "wolves herd disease" and picked the first result... learn som'n, youngin'.

Using Wolves as First Responders Against a Deadly Brain Disease (Published 2020)

Some scientists say that the predators are essential to curbing the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease because they pick off weak deer.

www.nytimes.com

 

[USMC1911]

ive ignored most of the ignorant replies ive gotten, but i havent yet seen one more patently and provably false, so you get the response. wolves dont spread CWD, living deer with CWD spread CWD.

wolves take sick game. its literally what they do, its why evolution has allowed them to exist, its their function. as with all scavenging predators. or do your 75 years somehow not cover the whole of the 90s when herd disease outbreaks started the conversation on wolf reintroduction? its how this whole train got out of the goddamn station.

i googled "wolves herd disease" and picked the first result... learn som'n, youngin'.

Using Wolves as First Responders Against a Deadly Brain Disease (Published 2020)

Some scientists say that the predators are essential to curbing the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease because they pick off weak deer.

www.nytimes.com

Yup if a wolf cant find an animal with a disease they just go hungry right? Wolfs are not a scavenging predator. They kill anything to survive. IMO wolfs were introduced for herd management, not for the betterment of herds. Less game animals, less hunting plain and simple. The goal in reintroduction is and always has been less hunting opportunity by crazy environmentalists that set policy at the state and federal level.

 

[Stomper]

Interesting you post this because a former sister in law of mine once told me how she believed this is how society as a whole should eventually become.

She believed 'citizens' should all live in 'communal housing' and no one should be allowed to own rural property.

She went on and on with her rambling but the funny part was it all started over my talking about my private well. She believed private wells should be controlled and essentially 'owned' by the state and that owners be billed for X amount of water use per month, just like those on city water systems.

Other than her stone cold craziness she was pretty hot and fun to party with. We actually got 'accused' of getting a little too 'close' during family get togethers and often 'disappearing' together - but it was for other reasons....

So…. I assume by your implication of denial that the "other reasons" didn't involve some private "well drilling" then?

 

[RVTECH]

wolves take sick game. its literally what they do, its why evolution has allowed them to exist,

AND there are a lot of other predators that take sick game as well that EVOLUTION has allowed to exist regardless of the persecution man has dealt upon them. While they have been mentioned before coyotes and cougars being the two primary examples, and in spite of attempts to eradicate them they exist, are flourishing and are increasing in numbers.

As I have mentioned before the wolf had its chance environmentally and simply could could not adapt to humans increasing presence in certain areas and were overtaken and eliminated.

If you read at all I recommend a story from Outdoor Life from about 1959 called ' the Battle with the wolves' which was a good story about early Americans and how they too, dealt with wolves as farmers as ranchers - but in the 1700's in early America.

 

[RVTECH]

So…. I assume by your implication of denial that the "other reasons" didn't involve some private "well drilling" then?

LOL! - but not even ! We had a unique 'symbiotic' relationship in spite of our political and social disagreements - family having a part of it as well.......

 

[Stomper]

Yup if a wolf cant find an animal with a disease they just go hungry right? Wolves are not a scavenging predator. They kill anything to survive. IMO wolves were introduced for herd management, not for the betterment of herds. Less game animals, less hunting plain and simple. The goal in reintroduction is and always has been less hunting opportunity by crazy environmentalists that set policy at the state and federal level.

Hey Jirine!! Fixed it for you!

 

[Spitpatch]

"wolves take sick game."

Precisely true. But the biggest reason they do, is NOT because the prey is physically easier to kill. SOLITARY prey is the preferred prey. Sick game is almost always solitary, or easy to make that way. When there are fewer sick animals in the population, wolves continue to seek solitary animals, healthy or not.

 

[Stomper]

LOL! - but not even ! We had a unique 'symbiotic' relationship aside from our political and social differences - family having a part of it as well.......

So you DO tacitly admit she was the yin for your yang!

 

[RVTECH]

So you DO tacitly admit she was the yin for your yang!

Hey, what can I say? I am a guy! And at the time she looked like the TWIN SISTER of Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York - and was often thought to be her in public.

 

[coop44]

I can maybe understand bad mushrooms but you drank antifreeze and licked battery acid in 'your youth' ?

Between wrenching on cars and the industrial battery biz, yeah pretty likely. The mushrooms weren't "bad", but magical!

 

[Ferryman]

Wolves had their chance environmentally and apparently couldn't survive.

Wow. THat's one of the dumbest things I've read on the internet in awhile. Wolves were chased out by humans, not the environment. I'm not going to comment on anyone's opinion on wolves one way or another, but please, get a grip on reality.

 

[RVTECH]

Wow. THat's one of the dumbest things I've read on the internet in awhile. Wolves were chased out by humans, not the environment. I'm not going to comment on anyone's opinion on wolves one way or another, but please, get a grip on reality.

Get a grip on reality? Reality is Humans ARE a part of, and have a huge influence on the environment and the animals (and everything else) that exists within it, and to a certain degree whether they survive or not.

And for clarification the wolves were not 'chased out' - they were killed off, trapped, etc. and for all intents and purposes exterminated.

 

[Ferryman]

And for clarification the wolves were not 'chased out' - they were killed off, trapped, etc. and for all intents and purposes exterminated.

Thanks for making my point for me. Human do influence nature. but we've (as a species) have evolved way past a point that we are part of it. I'm no tree hugger, but trying to spin a yarn that wolves are ill adapted to their environment because they ran into us is pure 100% doggie poop.

But hey, whatever fits your narrative, run with it.

 

[TTSX]

My opinion is more opiniony than your opiniony opinion

 

[ZigZagZeke]

ive ignored most of the ignorant replies ive gotten, but i havent yet seen one more patently and provably false, so you get the response. wolves dont spread CWD, living deer with CWD spread CWD.

wolves take sick game. its literally what they do, its why evolution has allowed them to exist, its their function. as with all scavenging predators. or do your 75 years somehow not cover the whole of the 90s when herd disease outbreaks started the conversation on wolf reintroduction? its how this whole train got out of the goddamn station.

i googled "wolves herd disease" and picked the first result... learn som'n, youngin'.

Using Wolves as First Responders Against a Deadly Brain Disease (Published 2020)

Some scientists say that the predators are essential to curbing the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease because they pick off weak deer.

www.nytimes.com

I'm afraid that "because I said so, and you are ignorant" is not a valid argument.

Wolves take whatever game is available. They don't pick and choose. If a sick animal presents itself they will take it, but they are not out there selectively looking for sick animals to eat.

As for spreading CWD, follow the science, as they say:

"Debbie McKenzie, who studies the disease at the University of Alberta, says wolves and other dog-like animals are generally considered to be resistant to CWD, but that doesn't mean an infected deer's prions—the proteins that spread the disease—die when a wolf preys on it.

"There has been some evidence that although the wolves themselves would not get a prion disease, that some of the infectious prions could end up in their fecal material and it could be a way of moving the disease around," McKenzie said.

She pointed to a study published in 2015 by researchers based in northern Colorado. They studied six coyotes from Utah, feeding them elk brain and analyzing the contents of the resulting feces. As the scientists wrote, the findings show that coyotes can pass infectious prions via their feces for at least three days after eating infected meat, "demonstrating that mammalian scavengers could contribute to the translocation and contamination of CWD in the environment."

How Might Wolves In Colorado Affect Chronic Wasting Disease?

Colorado's poised to put the question of wolf reintroduction on the November ballot. One unanswered question is how the predators might affect the

www.cpr.org

They certainly spread Hyatid Disease (canine tapeworm), which is picked up by ungulates and spreads easily to humans. The disease is often fatal if not diagnosed early:

"Dr. Geist's article also warned, "If we generate dense wolf populations it is inevitable that such lethal diseases as Hydatid disease become established." Because wolves and other canines perpetuate the disease by eating the organs of animals containing the cysts, and the tapeworms live and lay millions of eggs in their lower intestines, the logical way to insure the disease did not develop was not to import Canadian wolves that were already infected with the parasites."

Two-Thirds of Idaho Wolf Carcasses Examined Have Thousands of Hydatid Disease Tapeworms

www.skinnymoose.com

And yeah, as far as ignorance goes, Googling topics and uncritically accepting the first thing that pops up will get you in trouble every time. There's a whole narrative out there about how the noble wolf is the answer to every environmental and game management issue. But boots on the ground in places like Idaho tell the real story of decimated ungulate populations and indiscriminant "thrill" killing by wolves.

The fact is that the "reintroduced" Canadian gray wolf is 50% larger than the native wolf, and evolved to hunt bison and moose, not elk and deer. But the narrative is so pervasive that it's difficult to find any actual facts that aren't propaganda generated by the enviro-whackos.

 

[The B]

I'm afraid that "because I said so, and you are ignorant" is not a valid argument.

so, the thing youre doing

Wolves take whatever game is available. They don't pick and choose. If a sick animal presents itself they will take it, but they are not out there selectively looking for sick animals to eat.

they arent "selectively" choosing sick animals - its a natural consequence of sick'ns being easier to catch and wolves having to expend food energy to catch more food. cals in, cals out, cals in.

As for spreading CWD, follow the science, as they say:

"Debbie McKenzie, who studies the disease at the University of Alberta, says wolves and other dog-like animals are generally considered to be resistant to CWD, but that doesn't mean an infected deer's prions—the proteins that spread the disease—die when a wolf preys on it.

"There has been some evidence that although the wolves themselves would not get a prion disease, that some of the infectious prions could end up in their fecal material and it could be a way of moving the disease around," McKenzie said.

She pointed to a study published in 2015 by researchers based in northern Colorado. They studied six coyotes from Utah, feeding them elk brain and analyzing the contents of the resulting feces. As the scientists wrote, the findings show that coyotes can pass infectious prions via their feces for at least three days after eating infected meat, "demonstrating that mammalian scavengers could contribute to the translocation and contamination of CWD in the environment."

How Might Wolves In Colorado Affect Chronic Wasting Disease?

Colorado's poised to put the question of wolf reintroduction on the November ballot. One unanswered question is how the predators might affect the

www.cpr.org

someone speculated that it might be physically possible for wolves to spread disease. what a slam dunk! kill em all.

They certainly spread Hyatid Disease (canine tapeworm), which is picked up by ungulates and spreads easily to humans. The disease is often fatal if not diagnosed early:

"Dr. Geist's article also warned, "If we generate dense wolf populations it is inevitable that such lethal diseases as Hydatid disease become established." Because wolves and other canines perpetuate the disease by eating the organs of animals containing the cysts, and the tapeworms live and lay millions of eggs in their lower intestines, the logical way to insure the disease did not develop was not to import Canadian wolves that were already infected with the parasites."

Two-Thirds of Idaho Wolf Carcasses Examined Have Thousands of Hydatid Disease Tapeworms

www.skinnymoose.com

pretty normal... parasites cant exist unless theres hosts for em. and the worm doesnt know or care if its in a wolf or a coyote. kill em all!

And yeah, as far as ignorance goes, Googling topics and uncritically accepting the first thing that pops up will get you in trouble every time.

the article was for you; im already decently educated on the topic.

There's a whole narrative out there about how the noble wolf is the answer to every environmental and game management issue. But boots on the ground in places like Idaho tell the real story of decimated ungulate populations and indiscriminant "thrill" killing by wolves.

that "whole narrative" is ... science. not into it, eh? indeed, fat old dudes drinking at the local legion after a day of unsucessful truck hunting are surely are much better source of data.

wolves dont "thrill kill," guy. thats comical. nature doesnt work that way. wolves arent demons or evil spirits - theyre part of an ecosystem and take what they need and what nature needs them to take or they wouldnt even exist.

When Wolves Kill Large Numbers, It’s for Survival, Not Sport

What gets called “surplus killing” actually isn’t, it’s killing for future feeding

www.outsideonline.com

Wolf Pack Slaughters 19 Elk in Rare 'Surplus Killing'

Unusual behavior leaves game officials scratching their heads in Wyoming.

www.nationalgeographic.com

wolves dont kill in surplus any more than any other predator, and in fact all the evidence shows wolves do it less than other predators. not least of all because we've driven them to the brink of extinction and its hard to keep up when theres a handful of you and millions of them. should we also drive bear, coyote, cougar, bobcats, etc extinct?

and.... just as the wolves... i bet you too have food in the fridge. no ones talking about driving you to extinction for planning ahead.

The fact is that the "reintroduced" Canadian gray wolf is 50% larger than the native wolf, and evolved to hunt bison and moose, not elk and deer. But the narrative is so pervasive that it's difficult to find any actual facts that aren't propaganda generated by the enviro-whackos.

yea, its hard to find evidence supporting bullsh¡t under a mountain of scientific consensus. we see thing same "problem" in the realms of climate change and infectious disease in humans. boy, why's it so hard to find scientific evidence of things that arent scientifically sound? so unfair. the damn liberal media! kill em all, along with the wolves.

 

[Spitpatch]

" wolves dont "thril kill"..',theyre part of an ecosystem and take what they need". "wolves dont kill in surplus any more than any other predator"

NO ONE (either focusing on, or discounting the factual behavior) can deduce what is in a Wolf's mind while killing more than can possibly be utilized from a kill site. A conclusion of "thrill killing" is no more valid than a conclusion of "killing for future feeding".

Both baseless conclusions anthropomorphize ("humanize") the thoughts of a Wolf with absolutely no method of knowing those thoughts.

Having actually SEEN wolves kill more than they can use in one event, and having SEEN coyotes do precisely the same in numerous events, and having been around dogs all my life, I can see where the phrase "thrill kill" might be used to describe the BODY LANGUAGE and vocalizations of the predators as this is happening. By any measure of my experience with canines, they are certainly "happy dogs"" tails wagging, affirmative exchanges with partners, rolling on the round legs up and wiggling with pleasure. Still, I cannot say (and no one can) exactly what is in their heads.

On the other hand, I watched two wolves paralleling the same herd of Caribou I was working, and saw them strategically carve out one of the last animals in the string and kill it, then go back to following the herd, carve out another, kill it, and when the herd was getting out of range of my ability to keep up, the Wolf pair was still dogging them.

The next day, Ravens and Foxes were on the two kills I witnessed, and the carcasses had not been touched by wolves.
Three days later I glassed the same Caribou herd (Identified by a large bull I tried for), and the Wolves were still with them.

Rather than assign Wolves motivations of "stoking up the larder" for future use (much as we might put money in the bank), or assigning them the ugly human emotion of kill-induced ecstasy, I would be inclined to believe something much simpler:

They chase and kill because that is the switch that is hard-wire triggered in their heads, and they will do it whenever and however often the trigger is activated.

The noble motivation of "taking only what is needed and can be used" has been frequently mistakenly assigned to Native American hunting behavior of the past as well. Anyone who has spent time excavating and studying a Buffalo Jump site will arrive at a different conclusion. Did these people "thrill kill" the Buffalo quantities they had no hope of utilizing?

We have no way of knowing. We know they killed everything they could in order to survive and were (are) hardwired to do so.

STILL a part of the environment (whether you like it or not), so are we.