Why are we buying into the Anti-Gunner Hype?

[Jonnyuma]

the Second Amendment gives them the right to... miss-use what ever weapon they want without checks or consequence

I've been fully immersed in 2A issues for over 30 years and I've never heard that. Not once, not ever. Not a single time from a supporter of the 2A because that's a stupid talking-point of the disarmament enthusiasts that makes 0 sense, it has no basis in fact. It appeals to the ignorant and ill informed. Those are the same people who refer to ALL gun owners as untrained yokels, purport to advocate gun safety, yet refer to actual safety training and range time as "murder practice". They say that the 2A is a right to commit murder. They say that CC is terrible because all gun owners are Yosimite Sams who are enabled to just start shooting willy-nilly at the slightest provocation. Blood in the streets. Carnage. Death. Mayhem. Those are the people who project their ignorance and naivete on us... WTF are you talking to?

There is a lot of room for the middle ground

Please specify where this "Middle Ground" lies. We have a Bill of Rights which prevents the government from infringing upon our natural rights, the right to keep and bear arms is #2. We have restrictions on all but >semiauto, individual firearms. No destructive devices, bombs, mines, rockets, missiles, etc. Sorry, Virginia... you can't order a freaking machine gun and have it delivered to your door (yeah, no sh*t... a popular topic amongst the uninformed).
Sure... there are people who think that the SBR, SBS, and suppressor restrictions are archaic and stupid, count me among them. But that's ground already ceded, getting it back is the real fight here (and a just cause, IMO).
What Middle Ground do you wish to meet on?
UBC? Okay, maybe not a terrible idea... none of us wants crazies buying guns. Even more so, we don't want them "miss-using" (sic) them.
Fast forward past the hoopla of the signing ceremony, the 10A and 2A challenges and now it has to be enforced... how do you do that?
None of it good.

Please specify this wide swath of middle ground because I honestly don't see it.

To the OP, our defensive posture is not unwarranted. We now have presidential candidates openly advocate door-kicking and confiscation nation wide. Will it actually happen? Seems unlikely, but mostly because government is lazy, not due to any lack of enthusiasm from the (hopeful) CEO. A new AWB looks to be imminent, if not in this election cycle, a future one. And THIS one wont sunset in 10 yrs and will probably include semiautomatic handguns as well. Being informed and watching the horizon isn't being spun-up, it's a horribly defensive posture that we've been forced into.

 

[thorborg]

It's not just the "opposing side" that won't listen to reason, it's also the fanatical hard core NRA and Second Amendment contingent that won't listen to reason. If the NRA hadn't taken the cold stiff fingers stance and those that feel that the Second Amendment gives them the right to buy, sell, use and miss-use what ever weapon they want without checks or consequences then we wouldn't be in the corner that we are in right now. I blame the two extreme members of these groups (as well as the gun manufacturers that pumped out millions of AR type guns as fast as they could) for turning many of the fence sitters against guns and causing them to join those that are fanatical about taking them away.

There are a lot of us that agree with what the more level headed groups are saying on both sides, but if we speak up we are just shouted down... even on this forum. There is a lot of room for the middle ground, but unfortunately, I feel it's too late and that the cold stiff fingers group is going to see it happen, as will the rest of us that enjoy guns.

Mike

In my mind the middle ground is a grave yard of dreams and broken promises promoted by those afraid to take a stand, or those with no leg to stand on, groping for movement in their sanctimonious direction. If the "middle grounders" would take a stand, we could move on, one way or the other, right or wrong.
This issue most pressed in the media will never be abated with compromise or middle ground. Not till the second amendment is totally dissolved, all advocates for firearms and self defense are officially labeled as undesirable barbarians, and all remnants of guns are eradicated, will the media and left leaning folk move on to other subjects.
Either way, be assured, remove all rights to self protection, guns and sharp objects, and you still won't control the mind of man nor stop violent and evil people from hurting others. You will however, make it easier for them to do just that.
This is my opine of course and in total disagreement with the quoted notion above.

 

[308]

Compromise from the left is; "give me $100 you hater, but I will settle and not call you a hater if you compromise and just give me $50"...next week, repeat the same thing and they end up with the original $100, but hey, at lease the right were not haters, willing to compromise and took the moral high ground

 

[WillametteWill]

I am not against consequences....I just don't want to be held accountable for the actions of another.

Bingo, Yahtzee, Amen,

 

[Stomper]

If you look to the "middle ground".... you will see my "middle reply"..... FYI- plenty around here know me in person and can verify, it isn't bravado.

 

[mrblond]

Hard to find middle ground on any issue when one side bases their argument on emotion, rather then facts. Unfortunately feelings seem to be becoming more important on issues these days.

 

[Artilleryman]

"We"?

 

[DB is Here]

If you look to the "middle ground".... you will see my "middle reply"..... FYI- plenty around here know me in person and can verify, it isn't bravado.

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True, this was @Stomper after we fed, gave him beers, then burped and put him down for his nap...

 

[Andy54Hawken]

One of the troubles of walking that middle ground is that one can get sniped at ...from all sides.
Not sayin' not to find a middle ground...just saying that it can get lonely there and be unsupported from any and all help at times.
Andy

 

[arakboss]

Unfortunately the 8% number doesn't reflect the much larger number (from both parties) in Congress and the White House that are exhibiting anti-gun tendencies. I guess we could ignore the 8% and hope things don't change but we've seen what that's done for California and other states.

 

[Jonnyuma]

I heard a canned editorial this morning on the radio, dude was going on (Charles Kurault style) about all of the peolpe struggling to find "reasons" for mass shootings and effectively knocking them down... easy to see where he was going.

Mental health: Theres crazy people in other countries. Not a factor.

Violent video games: Been around for decades. Not a factor.

Some other stuff: Been here and present in other countries, not a factor.

Easy availability of semiautomatic weapons... THAT'S THE TICKET! 100%.

...i'm the Charles Kurault-guy... you make up you're own mind...

Okay, f***face... there are, by any estimate, well over 200 MILLION of these things in private hands. 400 MILLION guns in the USA yet we have a relatively small crime/murder rate. We are the freedom beacon of the planet and people die trying to get here...but there are downsides. They are few, but they do exist.

This area was home to a high-jingo rant about the United States, freedom, and it's inherent risks... deleted.

You're Welcome. It was pretty over-the-top.

 

[Patriot1775]

There is only so much a true red, white and blue American can/will take. I'm so far to the right, I fall over. Not advocating for the fringe nutjobs, but with the attacks on our Constitution, 2A, the sovereignty of USA, religion, and the family, when will enough be enough? The political left keeps getting away with this. Will we be silent and submissive till you get a knock at the door? I-1639 is only the beginning. 30 years ago my high school parking lot during whitetail season had 10-15 shotguns in the gun racks. The school admin knew this, Hell they hunted too. No school shootings why? Ponder that one my friends.

To quote an old meme...."We tried the Soap box, We tried the Ballot box, maybe We need to try the Ammunition box". Since I'm a American Revolution Historian, we gained our Independence because of General Gage and the Crown's policy to disarm the Massachusetts militia on the night of 18 April, 1775. Just food for thought.

Lastly, there is a warrior culture in America. I can't speak for you, but my multiple oaths taken to "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic". There is no expiration date. I still take that 100% seriously. I went to 3 wars in Muslim s-hole countries (to quote the President). And I am to sit by and have my own politicians and uneducated citizenry, take my rights when I went overseas for the freedoms and rights of ungrateful Christian hating people, and at the behest of my own county? I hope it never comes, but when the left gets their way of repealing the 2nd Amendment or outright banning firearms, they will reap what they sow. My family goes back to John Alden of the Mayflower 1620. I had 23 ancestors who fought in the American Revolution, I will not piss on their sacrifices and memory, by rolling over to limp-wristed girly men and red socialists!

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

 

[kmk1012]

^^^Well put!!!

 

[Dungannon]

So I'm up in the woods yesterday with the three grandsons. Over a period of six hours only four vehicles came by on the road below us. We got everything set up, and then took some time to clean up the trash left by other slobs. After reviewing the safety rules for the umpteenth time, the kids shot for awhile. Took a break for treats, picked up some more trash around the target area, and went back to shooting. Lunch time, some more cleanup and shooting. Started packing up after 3:15 and did some more trash pickup before leaving.

Over the course of the day I talked with them about all their relatives that served in the armed forces. I talked about forest management practices, since we were in an actively managed state forest. I talked to them about the news media and organizations that actively worked to influence public attitudes about guns, and that with liberty comes responsibility and the potential for abuse.

When we got home they all called their parents to talk about the great time they had with Papa. [I emailed a few pictures to the parents.] I treasure this time that I have with them because someday when they're a little older, they'll want to be with their girlfriend instead of their Papa. So while I still have this time, I want to create positive and treasured memories, to have an influential voice in the values they will embrace as adults, and to nurture a healthy skepticism of the forces that seek to undermine family and scorn traditional values [duty, honor, country, integrity, faithfulness, gratitude, etc.].

But I do wonder if these grandsons, when they get to be my age, will be wondering [as I do now] 'what happened to the world I grew up in?' I worry about this country. I don't want my natural skepticism to become a defeated pessimism, and yesterday in the woods was an antidote for yesterday in the news cycle.

 

[11Charlie]

So I'm up in the woods yesterday with the three grandsons. Over a period of six hours only four vehicles came by on the road below us. We got everything set up, and then took some time to clean up the trash left by other slobs. After reviewing the safety rules for the umpteenth time, the kids shot for awhile. Took a break for treats, picked up some more trash around the target area, and went back to shooting. Lunch time, some more cleanup and shooting. Started packing up after 3:15 and did some more trash pickup before leaving.

Over the course of the day I talked with them about all their relatives that served in the armed forces. I talked about forest management practices, since we were in an actively managed state forest. I talked to them about the news media and organizations that actively worked to influence public attitudes about guns, and that with liberty comes responsibility and the potential for abuse.

When we got home they all called their parents to talk about the great time they had with Papa. [I emailed a few pictures to the parents.] I treasure this time that I have with them because someday when they're a little older, they'll want to be with their girlfriend instead of their Papa. So while I still have this time, I want to create positive and treasured memories, to have an influential voice in the values they will embrace as adults, and to nurture a healthy skepticism of the forces that seek to undermine family and scorn traditional values [duty, honor, country, integrity, faithfulness, gratitude, etc.].

But I do wonder if these grandsons, when they get to be my age, will be wondering [as I do now] 'what happened to the world I grew up in?' I worry about this country. I don't want my natural skepticism to become a defeated pessimism, and yesterday in the woods was an antidote for yesterday in the news cycle.

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[308]

2012 to date there have been 4,334 murders in Chicago. MSM should focus on that.

 

[nammac]

So I'm up in the woods yesterday with the three grandsons. Over a period of six hours only four vehicles came by on the road below us. We got everything set up, and then took some time to clean up the trash left by other slobs. After reviewing the safety rules for the umpteenth time, the kids shot for awhile. Took a break for treats, picked up some more trash around the target area, and went back to shooting. Lunch time, some more cleanup and shooting. Started packing up after 3:15 and did some more trash pickup before leaving.

Over the course of the day I talked with them about all their relatives that served in the armed forces. I talked about forest management practices, since we were in an actively managed state forest. I talked to them about the news media and organizations that actively worked to influence public attitudes about guns, and that with liberty comes responsibility and the potential for abuse.

When we got home they all called their parents to talk about the great time they had with Papa. [I emailed a few pictures to the parents.] I treasure this time that I have with them because someday when they're a little older, they'll want to be with their girlfriend instead of their Papa. So while I still have this time, I want to create positive and treasured memories, to have an influential voice in the values they will embrace as adults, and to nurture a healthy skepticism of the forces that seek to undermine family and scorn traditional values [duty, honor, country, integrity, faithfulness, gratitude, etc.].

But I do wonder if these grandsons, when they get to be my age, will be wondering [as I do now] 'what happened to the world I grew up in?' I worry about this country. I don't want my natural skepticism to become a defeated pessimism, and yesterday in the woods was an antidote for yesterday in the news cycle.

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Training up the next generation!

Took my 15 year old niece shooting, after briefing on safety protocol and proper firearm handing, we commenced target shooting, she, my brother in law and myself.

Started with .22 lr rifle, then .22 lr handguns, once she was comfortable, move up to 9mm, .45 ACP and .45 LC... She handled all beautifully but she was most enthralled with shooting the AR, dang she burned through most our ammo and was a better shot then my brother in law or myself.

Needless to say, we've planted and sprouted a seed in the next generation successfully!

 

[Patriot1775]

So I'm up in the woods yesterday with the three grandsons. Over a period of six hours only four vehicles came by on the road below us. We got everything set up, and then took some time to clean up the trash left by other slobs. After reviewing the safety rules for the umpteenth time, the kids shot for awhile. Took a break for treats, picked up some more trash around the target area, and went back to shooting. Lunch time, some more cleanup and shooting. Started packing up after 3:15 and did some more trash pickup before leaving.

Over the course of the day I talked with them about all their relatives that served in the armed forces. I talked about forest management practices, since we were in an actively managed state forest. I talked to them about the news media and organizations that actively worked to influence public attitudes about guns, and that with liberty comes responsibility and the potential for abuse.

When we got home they all called their parents to talk about the great time they had with Papa. [I emailed a few pictures to the parents.] I treasure this time that I have with them because someday when they're a little older, they'll want to be with their girlfriend instead of their Papa. So while I still have this time, I want to create positive and treasured memories, to have an influential voice in the values they will embrace as adults, and to nurture a healthy skepticism of the forces that seek to undermine family and scorn traditional values [duty, honor, country, integrity, faithfulness, gratitude, etc.].

But I do wonder if these grandsons, when they get to be my age, will be wondering [as I do now] 'what happened to the world I grew up in?' I worry about this country. I don't want my natural skepticism to become a defeated pessimism, and yesterday in the woods was an antidote for yesterday in the news cycle.

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Thank you for getting them interested in our beloved sport. I just started with my own 10 year old daughter.

 

[bbbass]

We agree my friend. My point was/is that I'll not be whipped into a frenzy by what the crazies do. I'll keep my calm resolve as I do believe a well reasoned argument backed by a firm resolve is our best tact...

I'm currently too despondent to be frenzied. Too tired, and too cynical, to put forth MORE reasoned arguments... the only thing I have an abundance of is firm resolve!!

Bless you! - bb

 

[Glock10MM]

Before we know it squirt guns will be all that the 2nd amendment protects.