Who makes the best PCC?

[spookshack]

How well does the Stern Defense work?

Never had any issues with mine. They are spendy, but worth it IMHO. I prefer a dedicated lower if given the choice, but I do find them advantageous with my SBR lowers.

 

[Flopsweat]

Certainly not in the same class as the high end PCC's, but I bought an Extar EP9 for a beat around truck gun that takes Glock mags and I have grown to absolutely trust this little thing. It just runs reliably and shoots straight and is fun. Eats every different type of round I push through it. I have my SHTF kit that is all glock mag based firearms so I don't have to carry multiple mags/ammo types. Looks like they have a .45 version as well now. Made in 'Merica!

Firearms - Extar

Extar's lightweight and affordable firearms like the EP9 and EP45.

extarusa.com

I really want to shoot one of those. I haven't run into one at the range yet, and none of my shooting friends own one. I'll probably buy one after I move out of this God forsaken state.

How well does the Stern Defense work?

They're not bad. There are allen screws that adjust the height of the insert in the mag well and hold it in place. Once you get those adjusted properly, it will cycle just like any well-behaved AR. The trick seems to be to install it with an upper in place and the bolt forward so you can see how high the insert needs to be. Too high and the bolt carrier drags on it. Too low and you may have feed issues. Setting it so there was just the slightest bit of drag seemed to give the best results. The factory bolt release will function as normal, but not the mag release. There is a mag release built into the insert that is easy to reach and operates smoothly. The first few times out I found myself reaching for the factory mag release and then remembering the new one. Changing mags is routine if you remember which button to use. The gun cycles well. It has less recoil, report and muzzle rise than a comparable AR in 5.56. I did find that using a 33-round magazine as a monopod by resting it on the bench could cause feeding issues if I pressed forward. Given this is clearly not going to be used for self-defense, that's not a big deal. For a self-defense AR9, I'd probably go with a fully assembled name brand.

 

[spookshack]

Yes, the mag release on the Stern units needs a bit of practice. I can think of at least two times during a USPSA and a IDPA match that caused me some grief . The USPSA match I went to unload and show clear and hit the normal mag release and ripped the whole mag and adapter out of the gun! At the IDPA match we were shooting a qualifier starting from the bench. One of the strings required a mag change and I did the exact same thing as I did at the USPSA match, pulled the whole thing off. I would second the fact that the Stern adapters should not be used in a self defense manner due to the different manual of arms with the mag release. Perfectly suitable for plinking or other such non life or death activities.

 

[spookshack]

If my memory serves me correctly, @Joe Link owns or did own one at one time?

Why wait?

EP9

Extar EP9 for sale from Adaptive Firing Solutions, LLC.

www.adaptivefiringsolutions.com

 

[solv3nt]

I really want to shoot one of those. I haven't run into one at the range yet, and none of my shooting friends own one. I'll probably buy one after I move out of this God forsaken state.


They're not bad. There are allen screws that adjust the height of the insert in the mag well and hold it in place. Once you get those adjusted properly, it will cycle just like any well-behaved AR. The trick seems to be to install it with an upper in place and the bolt forward so you can see how high the insert needs to be. Too high and the bolt carrier drags on it. Too low and you may have feed issues. Setting it so there was just the slightest bit of drag seemed to give the best results. The factory bolt release will function as normal, but not the mag release. There is a mag release built into the insert that is easy to reach and operates smoothly. The first few times out I found myself reaching for the factory mag release and then remembering the new one. Changing mags is routine if you remember which button to use. The gun cycles well. It has less recoil, report and muzzle rise than a comparable AR in 5.56. I did find that using a 33-round magazine as a monopod by resting it on the bench could cause feeding issues if I pressed forward. Given this is clearly not going to be used for self-defense, that's not a big deal. For a self-defense AR9, I'd probably go with a fully assembled name brand.

 

[Ops]

buy parts build your own.

thats what i did

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I really want to shoot one of those. I haven't run into one at the range yet, and none of my shooting friends own one. I'll probably buy one after I move out of this God forsaken state.

The one I owned was reliable, accurate, and fun. But downsides are very high recoil relative to the soft shooters, wicked and annoying "twang" from the buffer tube when shooting. One might say lack of ability to fold or collapse stock is a downside also depending on your preference for size and handiness. For the $ they are very reliable but not a gun for me. I would call it a "violent" gun to shoot relative to the soft shooting PCCs.

 

[Lazyfaire]

This just appeared.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/beretta-pmxs-subgun-is-shipping-video/

MSRP is $1499 (guessing $1250 retail) report says BT mags

 

[spookshack]

buy parts build your own.

thats what i did

I would add that while not a given, generally speaking, sticking to one manufacturer for the build is preferable. Not all AR9 parts from multiple manufacturer's play nice with each other. Having all your parts from the same source can be beneficial should you need tech support, etc from the mothership.

 

[Bolt_308]

Since you are asking which is the best PCC and stated in a later post needing it to be Glock mag compatible, i would recommend the B&T APC9 Pro. Spendy, but you stated you wanted the 'best'! ;-). There are cheaper options that will meet your requirements, but not the quality and ergos of the APC9.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Good video of $650 Stribog a1 vs $879 Stribog a3 vs $2499 apc9. Skip to 9:43 mark for summary. His costs are a bit off. Fe Stribog price. And 30 round straight mags are $8.99 on sale or $17.99 reg price.

Eric shoots Stribog a1 in this video and contrasts to apc9 (but doesn't shoot apc9 in video).

Edit: here is the direct comparison video

 

[Ops]

if you know what your doing its good. like the aero epc. they f'd the barrel and buffer up. at least they fixed the barrel but they refuse to fix the buffer.

one of the worst companys to work for and the qc shows. cake eaters hiding behind desks stealing other peoples work

 

[WAYNO]

I'm sure there are many favorite pistol caliber carbines that work well.

I've owned and shot many Ruger PC9/4's of the past, and the more modern version, the PCC. They operate wonderfully and are very pleasingly accurate. Any of these would be on my top-ten list.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

How well does the Stern Defense work?

Mine works fine.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

For the record the cx4 is awesome as well, but for glock mags I would look at an ar9 or the mpa defender. My defenders run like a fiend, easy to bump fire by technique and very accurate.

It really is not hard to get an ar9 working well. Taccom3g.com sells some great parts.

 

[Bolt_308]

Good video of $650 Stribog a1 vs $879 Stribog a3 vs $2499 apc9. Skip to 9:43 mark for summary. His costs are a bit off. Fe Stribog price. And 30 round straight mags are $8.99 on sale or $17.99 reg price.

Eric shoots Stribog a1 in this video and contrasts to apc9 (but doesn't shoot apc9 in video).

Absolutely. I have a OG Stribog SP9A1 as well, and it is awesome, especially for the money. I would put it over the venerable CZ Scorpion, as I have not been very impressed with mine, had to add a bunch of accessories to get it to the level of working well, and very 'plasticy'. Stribog is solid, and metal. I am a bit of a PCC nut, and own or have owned most of them. Here is how i rank them from best to worst of the ones I have owned. PS If ranking based off pure nostalgia however, the SP5/SP5k go to the top of the list, something about a SP5 that is just sexy sexy!;-) And the UZI may go up on the list as well ;-)

My rankings, from what i have or have had at one point:
B&T APC9K
HK SP5/ SP5K
Sig MPX
OG IWI UZI
VZ-61 Skorpion (Klobb)
Stribog
B&T TP9
Kel-Tec Sub2000 (actually a really good gun for so little money, just not maybe in the same league as the above. If this is all one can afford it is actually really cool and works very well)
AR-9 (IMO if you are going to buy this, just get a 300BLK AR-15)
Braced pistol Options (like the Flux Raider. They actually work pretty well, but I like having a dedicated carbine)
CZ Scorpion (really was suprised by how much i didnt care for it but to each their own, still a good gun)
Kriss Vector (cool idea and interesting concept, but some have realiability issues)

PS not at all trying to start a war or offend anyone here ;-) and everyone has their favorite- that is the FUN thing about PCC's- so many options and flavors for everyone's preferences !! ;-)

 

[bradsteen]

Sounds like right now your only criteria is Glock compatibility. Probably worthwhile to try and narrow it down a bit further.

What is your use case? Home defense? Range toy? Truck gun?
What size of weapon are you looking for? Rifle or SBR / PDW?
What is your budget? Prices can go anywhere from $500 to over $3k
Do you want to build it yourself or buy it complete?
Do you plan on running iron sights only, or optics?

Lots of good options out there in all categories, so "best" really depends on your needs.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Absolutely. I have a OG Stribog SP9A1 as well, and it is awesome, especially for the money. I would put it over the venerable CZ Scorpion, as I have not been very impressed with mine, had to add a bunch of accessories to get it to the level of working well, and very 'plasticy'. Stribog is solid, and metal. I am a bit of a PCC nut, and own or have owned most of them. Here is how i rank them from best to worst of the ones I have owned. PS If ranking based off pure nostalgia however, the SP5/SP5k go to the top of the list, something about a SP5 that is just sexy sexy!;-) And the UZI may go up on the list as well ;-)

My rankings, from what i have or have had at one point:
B&T APC9K
HK SP5/ SP5K
Sig MPX
OG IWI UZI
VZ-61 Skorpion (Klobb)
Stribog
B&T TP9
Kel-Tec Sub2000 (actually a really good gun for so little money, just not maybe in the same league as the above. If this is all one can afford it is actually really cool and works very well)
AR-9 (IMO if you are going to buy this, just get a 300BLK AR-15)
Braced pistol Options (like the Flux Raider. They actually work pretty well, but I like having a dedicated carbine)
CZ Scorpion (really was suprised by how much i didnt care for it but to each their own, still a good gun)
Kriss Vector (cool idea and interesting concept, but some have realiability issues)

PS not at all trying to start a war or offend anyone here ;-) and everyone has their favorite- that is the FUN thing about PCC's- so many options and flavors for everyone's preferences !! ;-)

Great info. Interesting on the Kriss vector that 2 people have them ranked at the bottom. A buddy of mine said that's his dream gun if he could afford it but to me it seems way over complicated, bulky, and strange looking for me to take it seriously even if it was low price. Im also influenced by exploding guns and reliability issue reports from when it first came out.

Seems to me a simple blowback gun with good muzzle brake can reduce recoil somewhat or someone can spend $1000 and get a good mp5 clone or the other more expensive options that really reduce recoil a lot. So for the Kriss it seems like a ton of fuss and negatives for little gain. But then I've never shot it or even held one so just going by what I've seen on internet.

Likewise seems to me the same guns (the soft shooters) are near the top of most people's lists who have shot a lot of different ones. Just observations. Mp5 or mp5k is the first one I would grab if shooting for fun. Have never shot or held b&t PCCs but everything b&t is well made I think. I really like their usw for Glock especially as it is more simple design than flux raider and costs $150ish less.

 

[TTSX]

Seriously, just build a banshee clone. It eliminates so many issues and you get to take advantage of nearly the entire AR aftermarket scene. Quite trying to be fancy.

 

[AlwaysOnTheGo]

I went with a Foxtrot Mike FM-9 and love it. I mainly shoot it suppressed and it's just fun

Came here to say this. I love my FM-9. Cheap, fun to shoot little tack driver, with integrated tri-lug for my can.