Where is the day labor at?

[forefathersrback]

I pay the best wages I've ever seen in this entire industry and take the lowest gross margin of any contractor I've ever known or worked for. Yet... I WILL be in business in a year, and in ten years, and in twenty.

Not sure what you're doing wrong, but I suspect your problem is between your ears.

 

[forefathersrback]

Perfect. I'll look you up in a little over a year, and beg for a job. If you don't mind hiring someone with a problem between their ears.

 

[bgdawgrr]

For reference, I do hire quality licensed landscapers for real work. I'm literally looking for 1-2 hard working, unskilled laborers for a day to pull vines, blackberry and shrubs for clean up on the edge of my property. Would love to hire "American labor" for the job, but I get either no interest or a price that is ludicrous (small job can't use machines). It hard work that's worth $12-15 an hour.
BTW, thought anyone that earns money and spends it locally adds to the economy. Not looking to debate, just spend some cash for local economic stimulus.

 

[Stomper]

If that's what you need done, I believe there's a guy who owns a herd of goats that he rents out (and oversees onsite) for a reasonable price. Little buggers will eat right through blackberries and such.

 

[timac]

Thanks to those that for identified themselves as possible felons.

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think you can find a lot of them in line at the welfare office getting paid for being a felon.
The more you know!

 

[The B]

Thanks to those that for identified themselves as possible felons.

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

STFU, dude. Nobody said they hire illegal immigrants.

 

[The B]

I actually background check and drug test. Have I had illegal immigrants in my employ? I can basically guarantee it. But all I can do is run the federally issued social and match the name to the Oregon issue driver's license.

 

[soberups]

My .02

The hardest work I ever did in my life was the two summers I spent picking beans and potatoes and strawberries as a teenager in order to earn money for school clothes. I'm glad my folks made me do that, it instilled a work ethic in me that I have kept to this day. I have a hard time looking down on anyone who is willing to do that work.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

If I was from Mexico and way better wages were across the border with half of the U.S. all for it and the law turning a blind eye, I'd go for it too! It's not their fault.
People in charge want a slave wage labor force and a divided Country with a diluted culture. It's part of the plan and it's working.
I wouldn't feel guilty hiring illegals for certain work, the cat's way out of the bag and ran away. All I can do is vote and hope for the best. Untill real leadership on this issue arrives it's pretty hopeless.
It's really true what they say, A lot of Americans won't do certain work anymore.

 

[timac]

STFU, dude. Nobody said they hire illegal immigrants.

If you hire people from the front of Home Depot, Lowes, Craiglist, etc. The possibility of hiring illegals is great, you claim you're not, but you are, through indoctrinated ignorance. Many companies hire Illegals unknowingly because of fake documents, states giving Illegals licenses.
The claim of Americans refusing hard work is false, again indoctrinated ignorance. You and many others choose to pocket more money for yourselves at the expense of the American citizen.

http://www.wehirealiens.com

 

[forefathersrback]

If I was from Mexico and way better wages were across the border with half of the U.S. all for it and the law turning a blind eye, I'd go for it too! It's not their fault.
People in charge want a slave wage labor force and a divided Country with a diluted culture. It's part of the plan and it's working.
I wouldn't feel guilty hiring illegals for certain work, the cat's way out of the bag and ran away. All I can do is vote and hope for the best. Untill real leadership on this issue arrives it's pretty hopeless.
It's really true what they say, A lot of Americans won't do certain work anymore.

OLDNEWBIE, I agree with part of what your saying. I do not think any of us are against legal immigration. I do not care what color a person is, or religion they choose. Hell I'd even let Ben B. enter my country.(Legally of course. ) lol. To not feel guilty about hiring illegal immigrants to work because of the lack of enforcement, does NOT make it ok. Your comment about Americans that won't do certain work anymore, true some won't, However I know plenty that would, and do.

 

[forefathersrback]

My .02

The hardest work I ever did in my life was the two summers I spent picking beans and potatoes and strawberries as a teenager in order to earn money for school clothes. I'm glad my folks made me do that, it instilled a work ethic in me that I have kept to this day. I have a hard time looking down on anyone who is willing to do that work.

Agreed, I hope you are not the one who stole my gunny sack of beans. Lol. Glad your parents did a good job instilling those work ethics. I absolutely do not look down on anyone who's willing to work.
Remember " TIME PLEASE" ?

 

[The B]

If you hire people from the front of Home Depot, Lowes, Craiglist, etc. The possibility of hiring illegals is great, you claim you're not, but you are, through indoctrinated ignorance. Many companies hire Illegals unknowingly because of fake documents, states giving Illegals licenses.
The claim of Americans refusing hard work is false, again indoctrinated ignorance. You and many others choose to pocket more money for yourselves at the expense of the American citizen.

http://www.wehirealiens.com

This is the second time someone has brought up MONEY. Did you miss the part where I boldly claimed to offer the best pay in this industry?

It's not about MONEY, it's about losing jobs because I can't get to them because I don't have anyone to do them. Once again- you show me a QUALITY white American who wants to work, I'll show you an employed white American.

Employed by me, in case you didn't get the subtlety.

What is it with you guys? Selective reading? Are you just choosing to ignore the fact that I already said I just plain cannot find Americans who want to roof? I hire guys I hope will be quality, and I'm lucky if they last 2 months and don't leave a trail of disaster all around my company.

How about this- if you've never run a construction company, keep your worthless comments on that topic to yourself. You have no bubbleguming clue what's going on out there.

 

[Stomper]

There is DEFINATELY a general sense of "entitlement" in our society. With so many government "handout" programs, nobody (needs) to pay attention to the the oldest motivating factor (in human history)... Starvation.

 

[The B]

There is DEFINATELY a general sense of "entitlement" in our society. With so many government "handout" programs, nobody (needs) to pay attention to the the oldest motivating factor (in human history)... Starvation.

There's a massive socioeconomic rift in this country. If you're bright and people think you have "promise," you're probably going to go to college for a white collar job. The construction industry is left with an extremely thinned out pool of talent- most of the available pool, among nonlatino Americans, is guys who either have a long history of poor decision making or are just generalized idiots. And in the back-break trades, we only get the worst combination of BOTH those.

Are there exceptions? Yes- I was one. Hard working, Christian, clean, smart... And I put my time in and quickly advanced to management. I have encountered a grand total of about two guys following a similar path, in my 8 years of being an employer- one, I couldn't keep busy at that moment in time and he's now making someone else rich; the other just couldn't stick it out. He's now in law school, where smart American boys think they belong, not burning 4000 calories a day on a roof.

So what you get is American guys who aren't worth much beyond their best face, which they can generally only wear for about a month or two. You fire them, or they just stop showing up, and start over again with another idiot. Money doesn't fix the problem- an irresponsible alcoholic with severe personal problems can't hold it together whether he's making $150 a day or $300.

 

[forefathersrback]

This is the second time someone has brought up MONEY. Did you miss the part where I boldly claimed to offer the best pay in this industry?

It's not about MONEY, it's about losing jobs because I can't get to them because I don't have anyone to do them. Once again- you show me a QUALITY white American who wants to work, I'll show you an employed white American.

Employed by me, in case you didn't get the subtlety.

What is it with you guys? Selective reading? Are you just choosing to ignore the fact that I already said I just plain cannot find Americans who want to roof? I hire guys I hope will be quality, and I'm lucky if they last 2 months and don't leave a trail of disaster all around my company.

How about this- if you've never run a construction company, keep your worthless comments on that topic to yourself. You have no bubbleguming clue what's going on out there.

Ben,
I guess I am entitled to speak here, for I am a construction owner/worker of my company along with my son. You certainly bring up valid points that I can't argue with. I had a year, that I hired, and fired over 20+ workers. I was talking with a buddy about my experience, and he said, "Hell that's nothing, I've hired and fired over 100 men in a years period of time", then laughingly added, " Jeez, I've fired some of them before they even got their tools out of their truck." White, and Hispanic!! My argument is based on wages, which you claim that you pay top dollar, good. No argument there. Although, I have to wonder about legal immigrant status, since you never claimed either way? The amount of illegals in this country is absolutely out of control. Those numbers vary on amounts of course. It has reached critical mass, It can't sustain any longer.

Ben,
You're worrying me man. You are going to have a heart attack, and possibly die over this thread. Then there will be an estate sale, in which I will attend, and PURCHASE all your ammo, and firearms, for .10 cents on the dollar. Then I will give Timac one of your firearms for free, because you dropped the F~BOMB on him. Then maybe all will be forgiven....MAYBE. What you need to do is sit down and listen to some Bob Marley..."Don't worry, be happy, every little thing will be alright!". So if you get upset again, just know, we love ya man.

 

[The B]

I don't knowingly hire illegal immigrants. But as I said, there's nothing you can do beyond verifying SSN matches name, and a $30 background check for felonies and sex-offenses. They never TELL you they're illegally in the country.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I am in telecom and on many jobs I've thought about picking up a 'laborer' to do the simple stuff - 'here, stand here at these cable reels and make sure they don't get tangled' - but no.

Unfortunately, I have to pay some entitled, proud, lazy dimwit $30/hr to do just that. I would have no trouble paying a Mexican or whoever less that really wants to work hard and is appreciative. Never have though. Might try it someday.

I know the job market sucks and college graduates are flipping flies, but there is a reason for that. The average (not all - just saying the average) American laborer is a lazy slob. Plus I'd worry about the white contracted employee or subcontractor coming back to 'rob me' just as much as I would the brown skinned person. I've worked with a lot of Mexicans and they worked as hard as heck and appreciate any opportunity.

That said, in the landscaping example, I'd pick up my own shovel and have. Never have a contractor come to your residence if you can do something yourself.

The worst example of a contractor intrusion into your home would be a Heating/Air person that goes to every room and attic to check vents, etc. You better be dealing with someone you know or someone who has been vetted to death. Because if that fellow sees anything valuable expect a break-in 2-3 months down the road. No thank you.

 

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I'm going to knock a few chips off the tip of the iceberg here. The hiring of illegals knowingly or not is the exploitation of a culture. People say all the time they can go back home and live like kings, if this is a fact why are these nations so poor. The truth is that when we hire them it keeps the natural affair of supply and demand economics out of balance. If an industry can't find labor it has no choice but to pay more to attract workers. If this had been kept in its natural state there would have been no building boom and wages would have increased attracting better people. Home cost would have gone up in balance with worker wages at a more even rate. Building an economy at a steady rate is always better than boom bust.
When these workers send their money home it comes right back here in the form of interest on loans we give there government and cheap petro. Sounds great only problem is that it keeps these people in a perpetual state of poverty. To me it's a lot like slavery; of course people in these situations are a better worker. Look at the UAE most of the labor is slaved from India. All empires do this.
As a man of the great U.S.A I have always felt I was free from the bonds of slavery. Whether this is economic, social, or governmental. I think WE the people of the U.S are a light in the world because at one time we all were slaves. For some it was labor, some religious, some government, some poverty. In our early history our resources were taken by many countries of the world. Taken by our hands from the dirt then taken from us by gun point. I will not do the same when the men before me fought so hard to rid us of these things.
USA USA USA USA!