What is "primer drag" in handguns?

[MrMillspecer]

These are from a Sig p938. On one of the casings, upper right, you can see a small drag mark.

 

[MrRob96]

Super super light. Hammer fired gun. Much better at keeping the action locked until that firing pin is retracted and the chamber pressures have reduced significantly.

The greatest lie ever told was from the lips of Gaston Glock: "JMB got it wrong..."

 

[mkwerx]

Convert one.... Ultimate hipster cred carrying a Glock 41AE.

Maybe MAC is drinking tactikoolaid by acting like this is such a terrible thing it needs to be fixed because it's breaking striker tips.

Its a serious concern on these guns because they are breaking striker tips off in only a few hundred rounds. On a competition gun, worst outcome is a failed match. On a gun targetted squarely at the concealed handgun market, this could be deadly for the user, not the assailant.

I've never experienced this on a 9mm Glock, M&P, or Sig. I have seen it on .40 glocks, .45 Sigs, and my .357 Sig chambered Sig.

In the case of the 365, it seems like a stronger striker return spring, and maybe a stiffer recoil spring would ease this, as would better quality strikers.

As for beating 320s with a hammer, I never saw one braced on a table and struck, they were hand held and struck, others were dropped with a primed case. That again was a serious defect in the design. There's no reason for a modern pistol to not have a drop safety. Sig was putting too much stock on a lighter, crisper trigger and not safety. I'll take a 6lb trigger on an M&P or Glock over a 4 lb trigger on a gun that is likely to discharge if it falls, or busts the firing pin because of poor design. In the 365's case, magazine capacity and trigger pull were the two main areas of focus, not having safe reliable function.

MAC also had his trigger return spring break about 800 rounds in, Sig QC is just spotty anymore. SIG = Send In Gun. I love older, German made Sigs.

 

[MrRob96]

As for beating 320s with a hammer, I never saw one braced on a table and struck

The YouTube channel posted here braced the P320 against a table then beat it with a hammer. I am aware it requires acceleration and not just impact to the gun. My point was this guy can describe the problem but analyzing it isn't his strong suit.

I'll be curious to see how Sig solves this problem, purely academic as I don't care about pocket guns. Lighter weight is going to mean excessive wear. Sig just needs to find the right balance to let the pistol go 5k rounds before replacing parts instead of 500.

People that are shooting these things like they're full sized P226s tho are crazy. Guns do have a lifespan and as they get smaller that lifespan goes down.

They'll fix the problem.

 

[MrMillspecer]

There is nothing spotty about a p226 or sp2022. Well proven handguns you will seldom have a problem with. And the p938 has been great for at least 300 rounds of various ammo. Sig fixed the 320 and will fix the 365. I will take the newer forged slide any day over a stamped and welded one.

Like Velzey said Glocks have had primer drag for years.

 

[Tully Mars]

It's not just subcompacts. Full-size Glocks have been doing it for years. And allot of other brands. And it's not all of them either, it's hit or miss. Fp are in tolerance but on the long side, take .005-.010 off the tip and the drag disappears.
The firing pin return spring isn't strong enough to fully force it backwards out of the way fast enough. This is a none issue, I've never seen a broken fp from dragging.

I have a P9S that does it. Has since it was new.
Easy way for me to tell it's my brass

 

[MrRob96]

I have a P9S that does it. Has since it was new.
Easy way for me to tell it's my brass

But no other gun does it.....

 

[Certaindeaf]

First there was glocked brass and now there's sigged primers.. oh my!



















:hide

 

[Tully Mars]

But no other gun does it.....

No other one that my friends use.

 

[po18guy]

Firing pins don't get any rounder than the 1911 firing pins and my old 1911 was doing it in spades.

Interesting. How did you solve it?

 

[albin25]

Whew !!
I was afraid someone was worried that their primers were wanting to wear high heals and lipstick.

 

[DirectDrive]

Whew !!
I was afraid someone was worried that their primers were wanting to wear high heals and lipstick.

Jack Lambert, MLB Pttsburg Steelers once said, "What are you going to do, put skirts on 'em ?"

 

[mkwerx]

Whew !!
I was afraid someone was worried that their primers were wanting to wear high heals and lipstick.

Thats a topic for @PlayboyPenguin

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Interesting. How did you solve it?

Replaced the recoil and firing pin springs. I replaced the recoil spring first and that seemed to solve it, but the springs came together so I went ahead and replaced the firing pin spring as well. My dad bought it for me brand new for my 16th birthday, and I shot it every chance I got...which was a lot.

 

[po18guy]

These are from a Sig p938. On one of the casings, upper right, you can see a small drag mark.

View attachment 465006

I'd have to say early unlocking. Have you tried an uprated, say, Wolff spring? The extra power firing pin springs also help.

Ah, it just occurred to me (a little slow on the uptake): the .41 AE brass with primer drag was from a conversion in which they used the 9mm recoil spring (early unlocking), or if they used the .41 recoil spring, they did not change out the firing pin spring (slow pin retraction). All makes sense now.

 

[po18guy]

The greatest lie ever told was from the lips of Gaston Glock: "JMB got it wrong..."

Gaston Glock's ex-wife and him with his current wife. Yeah, we know what he was thinking - and we certainly know what Frau #2 is thinking...the ex is suing for billions of Euros.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I'm thinking a bunch of us old guys need to get together and start our own firearms channel. I solved this "new" problem over 20 years ago, as I'm sure others here did as well, without access to the internet. Just sayin'...​

 

[po18guy]

I'm thinking a bunch of us old guys need to get together and start our own firearms channel. I solved this "new" problem over 20 years ago, as I'm sure others here did as well, without access to the internet. Just sayin'...​

It's the new millennium! And, it's populated with....you guessed it. Saw the alcohol sales sticker at the cash register last week.

"You may not purchase alcohol if your birthday is after this date in 1997"

 

[orygun]

It's not just subcompacts. Full-size Glocks have been doing it for years. And allot of other brands. And it's not all of them either, it's hit or miss. Fp are in tolerance but on the long side, take .005-.010 off the tip and the drag disappears.
The firing pin return spring isn't strong enough to fully force it backwards out of the way fast enough. This is a none issue, I've never seen a broken fp from dragging.

Primer drag, to me anyway, would be a high primer dragging along the recoil shield, like po18guy stated.
The cases shown by trikerdon's posted video is what I would call firing pin drag, cuz it surely wasn't the primer's fault! I have a 1911 that will do that with some ammo, and not with others. My assumption is the recoil force is stronger with some ammo and the firing pin spring just doesn't get the pin back out of the way before the barrel unlocks from the slide and drops down.

I figger there's lots of things to worry about. This isn't one of them.

 

[41mag]

They'll fix the problem.

as a Sig fan the recent issues with a number of their models is perplexing; my Colt Mustang circa 1985ish has never had even one parts failure. Over the years unsure of round count, but much closer to 5k than 500.