Using Bear Spray in San Francisco Justifies Beat Down

[Provincial]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californ...k-pipe-former-san-francisco-fire-commissioner

Using bear spray apparently justifies "self-defense" in San Francisco.

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[VinnieBoomBah]

Dude, did you even read the article? YES! The guy that got the beat down started the fight, kept the fight going AND HAS DONE IT BEFORE. He 100% deserved what he got.

I know this will be an unpopular opinion but you don't automatically loose your humanity and right to self defense even if you are a drug addicted homeless person.

 

[Howard1955]

That looks like attempted murder to me.

 

[Provincial]

What I don't like is the hypocritical attitude that someone can start a confrontation using less than lethal weapons and the respondent escalates is considered unjustified if the instigator is supporting a liberal cause, but if the instigator is acting in opposition to the liberal cause, they get punished.

In almost any case where there is a "demonstration" the demonstrators are the aggressors, but get a pass from the liberal government.

The homeless guy retrieved the pipe weapon and marched up to beat on the instigator. He did not retreat and stay away. He didn't try to get law enforcement to deal with the problem. If you or I acted that way, we would have the book thrown at us.

As Howard points out, the homeless man was never in danger of death or serious bodily injury, hence the escalation was unjustified under the law, and I believe that this judgement will be overturned if appealed high enough to get beyond the 9th Circuit.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I call for a re-match. Greco/Roman this time.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

What I don't like is the hypocritical attitude that someone can start a confrontation using less than lethal weapons

Did you miss this part?

Doty's defense attorneys argued that Carmignani instigated the altercation and sprayed the homeless man with bear spray and threatened to stab and kill him if he did not move his belongings.

I know taking the 5th is a right and all that, but it could not have helped him in this case.

 

[Val1884]

Ice man would be in paradise with all this free roaming homeless.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Ice man would be in paradise with all this free roaming homeless.

I mean, it's waterfront so...

 

[Provincial]

So if the defense attorney says something happened, that is sufficient to prove it?

Notice that the article didn't mention any testimony proving that accusation.

I'm not rearguing the case. I just think that the outcome would have been different if the homeless man had used bear spray and Carmignani had beat him up with a pipe.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I'm not mad at either party.
Also, I don't have any sympathy for either party.

 

[Provincial]

I'm not mad at either party.
Also, I don't have any sympathy for either party.

Me either. I'm just concerned that the playing field isn't equal.

 

[kmk1012]

Watched the video, obviously didn't see what started it and it's hearsay as far as I'm concerned. If someone was beating me with a pipe I'd shoot them. The pipe could have killed him with a well placed hit. But, like I stated earlier, the video doesn't show the whole picture. There simply is not enough information to make an accurate depiction of the events.

 

[Koda]

If I recall, bearspray/mace is considered a deadly weapon when used in a crime.

 

[Stomper]

I call for a re-match. Greco/Roman this time.

In a kiddie pool filled with jello!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

If I recall, bearspray/mace is considered a deadly weapon when used in a crime.

A little googling shows that to be correct

 

[Catfishmoon]

In watching the above video and other videos on YouTube regarding this instance, I have no sympathy for the former San Francisco Fire Commissioner. It seems pretty clear that he was the instigator of the physical confrontation. He walked up to an unsuspecting individual who was minding his own business and sprayed him with a large container of bear spray...
If that attacker would had been immediately shot, he deserved it...

However, the victim made a legal mistake when he reacted to being sprayed with bear mace. He chased the attacker over too long of a distance retaliating for the initial assault. In the view of law enforcement, at some point he became the aggressor and now faced legal charges.
It's not really surprising that a homeless individual who had just been "sucker-punched" out of nowhere with bear mace, might then make a questionable legal decision...

And it seems the circumstances just get worse from there. The above video only shows the retaliation. Instead of showing all the video related to this instance, they seemed to have "cherry picked" which part of the recording to put forth and neglected to include the initial attack instigated by the former commissioner. Although to be fair, this media outlet may have been unaware there was additional, preceding video.
It also seems this former commissioner is a suspect in eight similar attacks where homeless individuals have been assaulted by a person using spray, some captured by video and it certainly looks like the commissioner and occurred near his residence...
When the commissioner was questioned under oath regarding if he was involved in those previous eight attacks on the homeless, he pleaded the Fifth Amendment. That is his right, but it sure makes you wonder why.
There are a bunch of news stories available on YouTube regarding this occurrence if anyone wants to learn more. Here is one that claims to show the initial attack.

 

[Koda]

However, the victim made a legal mistake when he reacted to being sprayed with bear mace. He chased the attacker over too long of a distance retaliating for the initial assault. In the view of law enforcement, at some point he became the aggressor and now faced legal charges.
It's not really surprising that a homeless individual who had just been "sucker-punched" out of nowhere with bear mace, might then make a questionable legal decision...

He instigated the fight and bear sprayed him... that much we know. Allegedly he threatened to stab and kill him if he didn't move on.... one can argue its reasonable to chase an attacker far enough away until the treat is over. He didn't kill his attacker.

 

[Stomper]

A little googling shows that to be correct

A little bear spray will fix that Google right up!

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

When the commissioner was questioned under oath regarding if he was involved in those previous eight attacks on the homeless, he pleaded the Fifth Amendment. That is his right, but it sure makes you wonder why.

Right?!?!? Like how bad would it have to be to look at this and know that having him testify would more than likely tip the needle to reasonable doubt and just go . . . "Nah, better you sit this one out"

 

[Catfishmoon]

He instigated the fight and bear sprayed him... that much we know. Allegedly he threatened to stab and kill him if he didn't move on.... one can argue its reasonable to chase an attacker far enough away until the treat is over.

I agree with that... However, it appears that in the opinion of local law enforcement the victim of being sprayed did chase the perpetrator too far and continued to retaliate too much. Otherwise he would not have been charged with a crime by them.

He didn't kill his attacker.

You lost me there.
I only stated that in my opinion, any individual who is peacefully minding their own business and is attacked out of nowhere by someone spraying them with bear spray has the right to defend themself with a firearm.