Urban Pistol Caliber Carbine?

[Bacchus]

I wish I had a Beretta CX-4.

 

[wjv]

Technically not "pistol caliber", the .30 carbine is pretty close to a .357 carbine in power.

 

[BlackPowderDad]

I bought a hi point carbine in 9mm back when they were under $300 new. I know it's ugly but it works, plus don't forget, every defensive weapon can end up in an evidence locker, you don't want your $2000 dream gun to get taken. I have $280 total into the set up. It's my wife's trunk gun!

 

[Flopsweat]

I bought a hi point carbine in 9mm back when they were under $300 new. I know it's ugly but it works, plus don't forget, every defensive weapon can end up in an evidence locker, you don't want your $2000 dream gun to get taken. I have $280 total into the set up. It's my wife's trunk gun!

View attachment 1868567

I've shot one of those. It looks unwieldy but I was able to run a plate rack fast enough. Smoked it with my MP5 but I have a lot of trigger time on that gun. And yes, the MP5 goes strictly to the range and back, never to the mall.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

My eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Technically not "pistol caliber", the .30 carbine is pretty close to a .357 carbine in power.

View attachment 1859517

I thought a .357 carbine was about the same power as a 30-30.

 

[wjv]

I thought a .357 carbine was about the same power as a 30-30.

.44 mag in a carbine is closer.
But because of the bullet shape, the 30-30 will hold more power out another 50 yards or so,
For dangerous animal protection, I've heard people say:
The 44 in a carbine is better for the <50-75 yard range. Bigger bullet, more knockdown,
The 30-30 is better beyond 50-75 yards.

Never had to shoot a grizzly at 30 yards so I don't know if the above is fact or fiction.
Of course the above also assume that you are using the proper type of bullet in each gun.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.44 mag in a carbine is closer.
But because of the bullet shape, the 30-30 will hold more power out another 50 yards or so,
For dangerous animal protection, I've heard people say:
The 44 in a carbine is better for the <50-75 yard range. Bigger bullet, more knockdown,
The 30-30 is better beyond 50-75 yards.

Never had to shoot a grizzly at 30 yards so I don't know if the above is fact or fiction.
Of course the above also assume that you are using the proper type of bullet in each gun.

The 30-30 with a 170 gr does 2100 and the .357 factory remington load 170 gr soft point out of a carbine does 2000.
A 110 gr .30 going 2100 isn't even close.

 

[BlackPowderDad]

I've shot one of those. It looks unwieldy but I was able to run a plate rack fast enough. Smoked it with my MP5 but I have a lot of trigger time on that gun. And yes, the MP5 goes strictly to the range and back, never to the mall.

Ahahah yes ergonomics are not great in the hi point.

 

[BlackPowderDad]

My eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

View attachment 1868670

Ahahaha I agree, but I'm a chronic cheap A$$!!!

 

[Alexx1401]

I bought a hi point carbine in 9mm back when they were under $300 new. I know it's ugly but it works, plus don't forget, every defensive weapon can end up in an evidence locker, you don't want your $2000 dream gun to get taken. I have $280 total into the set up. It's my wife's trunk gun!

View attachment 1868567

Those things get a LOT of hate but, there are many great video's of people who buy one only to "try" to make a show of breaking it. They then find out they are shockingly hard to break. When they first hit they were around $150. For a long time I never even picked one up pre net as I "thought" they had to be junk. Then a buddy bought one because they were just so cheap. We started playing with it and were shocked that it just worked. Back then they looked a lot like those guns in the original Planet of the Apes movie. The proprietary mags were the only reason I never bought one. Soon they sold so well someone started making a far nicer looking stock for them. So then the Co decided to get in on the game and greatly improved them so they no longer looked like the old "Ugly Stick" as they had come to be known. Now days one of them make a FINE home defense PCC on the cheap. A side benefit is as you say if it ends up used and taken no one is going to cry.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Those things get a LOT of hate but, there are many great video's of people who buy one only to "try" to make a show of breaking it. They then find out they are shockingly hard to break.

Indeed. For all the millions of them in calibers ranging from .380 to 10mm; there are very few relatively that aren't reliable or won't function correctly.

The vast majority of the problems are twofold;
1. Magazine related; anywhere from tweaked feed lips to bad mags, particularly ProMag, to the point that Hi Point once had a line in their paperwork/manual saying using ProMags will void their lifetime warranty

2. Bad ammo. Usually cheap ammo that has bad QC.

 

[Flopsweat]

Those things get a LOT of hate but, there are many great video's of people who buy one only to "try" to make a show of breaking it. They then find out they are shockingly hard to break. When they first hit they were around $150. For a long time I never even picked one up pre net as I "thought" they had to be junk. Then a buddy bought one because they were just so cheap. We started playing with it and were shocked that it just worked. Back then they looked a lot like those guns in the original Planet of the Apes movie. The proprietary mags were the only reason I never bought one. Soon they sold so well someone started making a far nicer looking stock for them. So then the Co decided to get in on the game and greatly improved them so they no longer looked like the old "Ugly Stick" as they had come to be known. Now days one of them make a FINE home defense PCC on the cheap. A side benefit is as you say if it ends up used and taken no one is going to cry.

A buddy of mine bought their 9mm pistol for the same reason. For $150 he figured he could glue some picatinny rails to it and do some ridiculous stuff with it. First he took it to the range to make sure it ran. It ran flawlessly. Halfway through the range session he goes "Do you have any CLP with you?" because I always do. Turns out he had forgotten to lubricate it. It shot accurately enough too. Ugly spud of a handgun that looked like a POS but like the carbine, it just ran.

 

[billdeserthills]

Those things get a LOT of hate but, there are many great video's of people who buy one only to "try" to make a show of breaking it. They then find out they are shockingly hard to break. When they first hit they were around $150. For a long time I never even picked one up pre net as I "thought" they had to be junk. Then a buddy bought one because they were just so cheap. We started playing with it and were shocked that it just worked. Back then they looked a lot like those guns in the original Planet of the Apes movie. The proprietary mags were the only reason I never bought one. Soon they sold so well someone started making a far nicer looking stock for them. So then the Co decided to get in on the game and greatly improved them so they no longer looked like the old "Ugly Stick" as they had come to be known. Now days one of them make a FINE home defense PCC on the cheap. A side benefit is as you say if it ends up used and taken no one is going to cry.

The part I most like to make fun of are the springy stocks

Where Did the Spring Recoil Pad Go?…. High Tower Armory MBS-95 Conversion Stock

Where Did the Spring Recoil Pad Go?... High Tower Armory MBS-95 Stock

High Tower Armory recently introduced their New MBS-95 Conversion Stocks for Hi-Point Carbine rifles and one feature that is surprisingly absent from factory Hi-Point stocks is the spring recoil pad. So where did it go?...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

So, I watched a couple documentaries, and some other footage, of the LA Riots. In a few cases I saw pistol caliber carbines in the hands of LEOs and private citizens. (For the grins, I found myself looking for 1980s vintage Uzi carbines as the basis of an SBR project, but then opted not to. But that is another story.)

Anyway, I figured this might be an interesting thought experiment. What would your choice be, and why, for a pistol caliber carbine for the defense of an urban residence or business? Parameters would be:

• In a pistol caliber, obviously.
• Repeater.
• Can be suppressed.
• Braced pistols are allowed.
• Pistols stamped and turned into very small rifles are fine.
• For the grins, can be select-fire, but only real world. That would be transferable, pre-May 1986 subguns available to private citizens. (For example, an Uzi or MP5 would be realistic, while a P90 or UMP would not.)
• Any parts or accessories are allowed, provided they are not presently banned, are available and/or relatively easy to fabricate.

Enjoy!

If I could choose any, it would be pre 86' select fire without question. Mp5 with 3 round burst. Too bad the 10mm mp5 in select fire wasn't available to civilians. That would be a nice gun to have. The Walther subgun in select fire would be fun but I doubt it could touch the mp5 in shootability/accuracy.

9D465544-6A05-4DB2-A312-E0962843700F.gif

• ilikegunspdx
• Dec 24, 2023

Now as for modern PCCs probably would have to go by size. Cuz size determines where/how it can be carried/transported and where it can be used (Fe in vehicle).

For smallest size I would go with Glock 17L with b&t usw chassis. The Glock 34 will easily fit ina fleece jacket inside pocket, so I assume 17l would also. Glock 40 (10mm) woudl be nice also but slightly bigger frame and chassis. Whatever number Glock .40 s&w that's is the g34 equivalent would be awesome also.

Glock 34 in usw frame.

small-2.jpg

• ilikegunspdx
• May 14, 2023

Glock 40

FullSizeRender.MOV

• ilikegunspdx
• Jan 11, 2024

Glock 22 ina flux brace. Not as good as usw but similar size. It's a fun one too but no non-moving red dot and sits close to ur face.

86515B0B-9861-495F-9B1F-3CB3111B8157.jpeg

• ilikegunspdx
• Jan 30, 2024

Also a universal brace could be used on most any pistol to turn it into a pdw/pcc and allows use of regular holster. Fe a 10 mm Glock.

For this size gun I would choose 10mm Glock in USE first, 40 s&w second, and 9mm third. Have to add other sizes later when have time...

 

[Willysmb]

Love the MP5!

Pefer the SEF version. I regularly trained our SWAT units to get 2and 3 round bursts by simply having them say "On, on, off" as they squeezed the trigger while set in Full Auto. Military machine gunners are taught to fire short bursts in a similar fashion. Works very well.

Went through the HK armorer course for the SEF and burst fire trigger groups. All I can say is the 2 and 3 round burst groups are WAY more involved. The UMP 2and 3 round burst groups are even worse!

We had a number of MP5's in 40 cal. They would "overfunction". At the end of rearward movement of the BCG, the rollers would pop out. Over time this created dimples from the inside out. This resulted in the BCG locking to the rear. It took a while, but the gun would be useless until you took it apart. HK came to a point that they stopped making them (along with the 10mm), AND they would no longer repair them. That's how we ended up with UMP's.

A semi MP5 (or quality clone) with a bianary trigger would be very interesting, and would a whole lot less than a pre 86 transferable.

Best regards.

WMB

 

[bradsteen]

Those things get a LOT of hate but, there are many great video's of people who buy one only to "try" to make a show of breaking it. They then find out they are shockingly hard to break. When they first hit they were around $150. For a long time I never even picked one up pre net as I "thought" they had to be junk. Then a buddy bought one because they were just so cheap. We started playing with it and were shocked that it just worked. Back then they looked a lot like those guns in the original Planet of the Apes movie. The proprietary mags were the only reason I never bought one. Soon they sold so well someone started making a far nicer looking stock for them. So then the Co decided to get in on the game and greatly improved them so they no longer looked like the old "Ugly Stick" as they had come to be known. Now days one of them make a FINE home defense PCC on the cheap. A side benefit is as you say if it ends up used and taken no one is going to cry.

Still kinda blows my mind that nobody has made a side-folding or telescoping stock for the hi point. Heck, or even a picatinny rail back plate for aftermarket stock compatibility. Being fed from a pistol grip the OAL could be super short, making it an easily packable gun. I know there's only so much a company would want to invest in parts for a beater gun, but rapid prototyping and 3d printing are greatly reducing the cost of R&D. I suspect a company like Magpul could develop an aftermarket stock that would actually look good, be reasonably priced for the consumer, and still net them a decent profit per unit sold.

 

[JustInAr15]

I like the

STRIBOG SP9 A3

. It has a stronger recoil due to this blow back design, but 9mm is pretty mild to begin with.

 

[Jay Walk]

Inslee says I can only purchase a .22 LR if I want another semi-auto

 

[Certaindeaf]

I like the

STRIBOG SP9 A3

. It has a stronger recoil due to this blow back design, but 9mm is pretty mild to begin with.

View attachment 1868943

I believe that's a pistol caliber pistol.