Tumbler media question

[dmatzinger]

I use wet to "clean" and media to "polish"
I have issues but here is my brass process
1. ultrasoinc
2. dry
3. decap and resize
4. wet clean with ss pins and laymen brass cleaner liquid additive
5. dry
6. tumble in corncob media with meguir's carnuba wax over night
7. separate media from brass

my limiting factor is my dryer, so for pistol I can do batches of 500, but for rifle on batches of 200

it takes some time, but the bulk of time is the tool doing the work, and I just have to move it from operation to operation every three hours, at the end of the day, I will start the tumbler and let it run over night then on step 7 in the morning.

and I agree, it does not shoot any more accurate, but it looks good in the case in my reloading room!

 

[Helocat]

The "shot peening" I have done for custom Offroad springs, has the shot at 200FPS and they run them 18-28hrs. I highly doubt my wet tumbling at the slow RPM it runs at for 90 min can even start to condition the mouth of the brass. And if it has ANY effect, the annealing done for precision neck prep will eliminate this.

 

[jpndave]

Used clothes drier sheets (I often cut/tear into strips) will extend dry media life and more importantly controls the dust. I use the the sheets several times in the drier with clothes until they are ineffective then into the tumbler until black then thrown away.

Wet does polish up much better and gets into primer pockets but takes longer to clean up pins and dry. There is a fair bit of brass dust in the wash water. No sure if it's just loose flashing, etc. or actually removing brass thickness.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Used clothes drier sheets (I often cut/tear into strips) will extend dry media life and more importantly controls the dust. I use the the sheets several times in the drier with clothes until they are ineffective then into the tumbler until black then thrown away.

Wet does polish up much better and gets into primer pockets but takes longer to clean up pins and dry. There is a fair bit of brass dust in the wash water. No sure if it's just loose flashing, etc. or actually removing brass thickness.

That dirt comes from the unburned powder and primer debris and I cannot corroborate the thinning out of the brass.

 

[RVTECH]

That dirt comes from the unburned powder and primer debris and I cannot corroborate the thinning out of the brass.

Yea, the water always comes out black after tumbling.

Heck I did a short tumble after shooting today and while the cases were still pretty bright the water came out black as usual.

Thinning of the brass? I've never seen brass residue in the water and after repeated tumbling the cases look the same.

 

[DizzyJ]

I think thinning of the brass would be so negligible that it would be a non-issue. The brass will crack from fatigue from multiple firings long before thinning from tumbling would ever come into play.

 

[gmerkt]

It is possible to dry tumble too long. I've seen the results. .308 Win. Duration of time unknown. But the case mouths were thin and starting to peen inward and the lip on the rims had thinned noticeably. I should've kept pictures for "how not to."

I use various methods to clean cases, depending. But for dry tumbling, I quit using ground walnut. I favor ground corn cob, but I don't use it long before I change it. I add a bit of Dillon case polish to it. Corn cob is pretty cheap, no sense in doing sub-standard work to save small amounts of money. I don't like dry media with the rouge in it; sometimes the rouge will collect in the rim edges. If you're using dry media for a second stage of cleaning, you wouldn't need the rouge anyway, chances are.

Drying cases is pretty routine around here. Because I use RCBS case lube which is water soluble. Sized cases get rinsed with clear water. If you're gonna tumble them after, rinsing off the lube first greatly extends the life of the dry media. However, by this point, my cases pretty much don't need a final tumble.

You can drive yourself nuts in an attempt to achieve perfection in case cleaning. But in the end, the only really important point is cleanliness for the sake of function. Both in ammo assembly and in firearm use.

Re. the issue with tumbling media grit stuck in a primer flash hole. We've discussed this in other threads. Yes, I poke it out with a machinist's scribe. If I missed one, would I worry much? No, because primer ignition would burn and blow out that little piece of media grit at the moment of ignition. The propellant would never notice it. But for purposes of bench rest / long distance, complete perfection, I wouldn't want to leave any grit in the hole. Simply because it's just one more tiny, little thing that might possibly put your perfect group off by half a millimeter. My guess is, shooter technique is a more important issue.

All in all, the quality of the finish and the tools you use to achieve it is only as important as needed to please you, not someone else

I've kinda had the same idea. My way of putting it is, your work only has to be good enough to please the customer. If you yourself are the customer and you are doing the work, that level of satisfaction should be easy to achieve.

 

[Mikej]

I started loading my own in Dec 2011. I've used walnut with a little dribble of liquid car wax. I "Think" the wax helps keep the brass from tarnishing. I would go to the wet stainless pins if I loaded, shot and collected a lot more brass.

The funny part....I think it's funny anyway... I set up reloading with a new RCBS kit and a used Cabela's vibratory tumbler. A member at the time, "skydiver", was selling 5 gal buckets of walnut media. I had no idea how much media would be used over time. I bough SIX 5 gallon buckets full from him. I still have TWO!

 

[RVTECH]

You can drive yourself nuts in an attempt to achieve perfection in case cleaning.

This is true - and I never achieved 'perfection' in all the years I dry tumbled.

I never had consistency with the appearance of my brass. It ranged from mostly 'mediocre' clean to sometimes dull with only a few times was it ever actually 'bright' - and this was sometimes after tumbling all night AND I was using the lizard litter for media. I tried the usual 'additives' and sometimes the brass came out with a slightly 'greasy' appearance and needed to be washed and rinsed.

Well, when I finally burned up my tumbler and got a liquid tumbler I got 'perfection' on my first try !

After a couple hours I opened the container and saw mirror bright brass that only required rinsing, a roll in a towel and laid in the sun to dry.

I simply strained the cases in a plastic colander to separate the pins from the brass and it is an easy matter to strain and dry them.

And after several years now on liquid tumbling nothing has changed. The up side to liquid is it is dust free, quieter than dry and has a time limit that does not have to be exceeded to get 'perfection'.
Also it takes nothing but a 'shot' of lemon juice and a few drops of Dawn to get mirror bright brass.

I don't understand why so many criticize liquid tumbling. With a simple system set up its quick and easy to wrap up when done. And an advantage is you start off each time at 'square one' - everything is clean and like new. No dirty and dusty media to deal with - or have to buy, and occasionally replace.

 

[Camohunter]

I have dry tumbled my rifle brass in corn/walnut media for years.
When I started gathering equipment to reload 9mm I picked up a wet tumbler, since I started picking up range brass. Some of this brass was very dirty and black and wet cleaning made them look amazing.
I am now thinking of running some rifle brass through the wet process to see how I like it.

 

[RVTECH]

I am now thinking of running some rifle brass through the wet process to see how I like it.

Well if you like your pistol brass you will like the rifle as well !

 

[Caveman Jim]

This is true - and I never achieved 'perfection' in all the years I dry tumbled.

I never had consistency with the appearance of my brass. It ranged from mostly 'mediocre' clean to sometimes dull with only a few times was it ever actually 'bright' - and this was sometimes after tumbling all night AND I was using the lizard litter for media. I tried the usual 'additives' and sometimes the brass came out with a slightly 'greasy' appearance and needed to be washed and rinsed.

Well, when I finally burned up my tumbler and got a liquid tumbler I got 'perfection' on my first try !

After a couple hours I opened the container and saw mirror bright brass that only required rinsing, a roll in a towel and laid in the sun to dry.

I simply strained the cases in a plastic colander to separate the pins from the brass and it is an easy matter to strain and dry them.

And after several years now on liquid tumbling nothing has changed. The up side to liquid is it is dust free, quieter than dry and has a time limit that does not have to be exceeded to get 'perfection'.
Also it takes nothing but a 'shot' of lemon juice and a few drops of Dawn to get mirror bright brass.

I don't understand why so many criticize liquid tumbling. With a simple system set up its quick and easy to wrap up when done. And an advantage is you start off each time at 'square one' - everything is clean and like new. No dirty and dusty media to deal with - or have to buy, and occasionally replace.

I also switched over to the wet side last year but I still use my big azz Thumlers with dry media to clean the brass that I sell.



The brass I keep get the squeaky clean wet method.

 

[Camohunter]

Well if you like your pistol brass you will like the rifle as well !

I believe you are correct.
My rifle brass is all mine and does not hit the ground so it stays much cleaner.
I was a little concerned if wet tumbling would "stress" the brass more than my dry tumbler. But with all of the positive comments in this thread I will give it a try.

 

[RVTECH]

I was a little concerned if wet tumbling would "stress" the brass more than my dry tumbler.

There is virtually no 'stress' on the brass in liquid tumbling. The pins are only making gentle contact with the brass and are being cushioned by the effect of the water.

A while back a couple nickle plated cases made it into my pile of brass to be liquid tumbled and when they came out I noticed some of the nickle plating had been tumbled off.

I was going to keep adding them in on subsequent tumblings to see how long it would take for the nickle to be removed completely but I think I lost the cases.

 

[Mikej]

This is true - and I never achieved 'perfection' in all the years I dry tumbled.

I never had consistency with the appearance of my brass. It ranged from mostly 'mediocre' clean to sometimes dull with only a few times was it ever actually 'bright' - and this was sometimes after tumbling all night AND I was using the lizard litter for media. I tried the usual 'additives' and sometimes the brass came out with a slightly 'greasy' appearance and needed to be washed and rinsed.

Well, when I finally burned up my tumbler and got a liquid tumbler I got 'perfection' on my first try !

After a couple hours I opened the container and saw mirror bright brass that only required rinsing, a roll in a towel and laid in the sun to dry.

I simply strained the cases in a plastic colander to separate the pins from the brass and it is an easy matter to strain and dry them.

And after several years now on liquid tumbling nothing has changed. The up side to liquid is it is dust free, quieter than dry and has a time limit that does not have to be exceeded to get 'perfection'.
Also it takes nothing but a 'shot' of lemon juice and a few drops of Dawn to get mirror bright brass.

I don't understand why so many criticize liquid tumbling. With a simple system set up its quick and easy to wrap up when done. And an advantage is you start off each time at 'square one' - everything is clean and like new. No dirty and dusty media to deal with - or have to buy, and occasionally replace.

DUDE! You almost have me convinced. Keep talking!

Seriously, you should be a salesman. That was a great presentation. Right on all counts. If I shot and loaded more. And scrounged a bunch of terribly dirty brass. I'd probably go wet. I bought used brass in the beginning that was obviously done wet. And you are right, it's special.

 

[gmerkt]

I don't understand why so many criticize liquid tumbling.

No criticism implied. You will note, at the beginning of my last post in this thread, I state that I use multiple means of case cleaning. This thread happened to be about dry tumbling.

 

[gmerkt]

A while back a couple nickle plated cases made it into my pile of brass to be liquid tumbled and when they came out I noticed some of the nickle plating had been tumbled off.

I was going to keep adding them in on subsequent tumblings to see how long it would take for the nickle to be removed completely but I think I lost the cases.

Nickel plating will wear off in dry tumbling as well, given enough turns in the tumbler. Also, plating thickness varies so its life is variable.

 

[RVTECH]

About the only nickle brass I have is .38/357 and If I were to ever get to the point of actually using it (as I have tons of real brass) I would probably tumble it pin free to preserve the nickle but I doubt I will ever need it!

 

[gmerkt]

nickle brass

I'm very fond of nickel plated brass. It cleans up nicely with just about any method. Resists carbon staining way better than plain brass. For this reason, you probably wouldn't need pins to get it clean. Some people claim the plating process makes brass more brittle but I've never noticed this in my experience. Others have claimed it is hard on sizing dies, which I haven't noticed but "wearing out" dies could be a very subjective thing. I've got nickel plated brass in .38 Special, .357 Mag, .223 Rem. In the past, I've used it in .38 Super (pretty common in this cartridge) and 10mm Auto. You see it here and there in other cartridge sizes. Oh, I've got some in .30-06 too. Some of the 9mm Luger higher end offerings have cases plated in nickel.

Decades ago, I lived in a city of some size that had its own police department gun range. It was open to the public on weekends. It was co-located with the city honor farm where low level offenders served out their time working for the city. The trusties at the honor farm did some of the work at the police range, including reloading .38 Special cartridges. Which most officers in the city carried in those days. The range office sold these reloaded cartridges for $2 per fifty in a bean can. It was pretty crude stuff but it worked, loaded with cast lead bullets. The cases were quite mixed and you could see some in there that had at one time been nickel plated. But they'd been done so many times, very little plating was remaining, only a bit down by the lip on the rim. You could even find a few cracked cases in there that they'd gone ahead and loaded.

Later, officers in this city were authorized to carry any sidearm that they could qualify with. Revolvers or automatics. Some even carried nickel plated Smith & Wesson Model 25-5 with the four inch barrel. The local police supply store was a S&W distributor and they kept a supply of these on hand. The 25-5 is an N frame chambered in .45 Colt. Certain officers liked to carry this big piece for reasons of psychological factor on suspects. I was told that big, shiny hole in the muzzle end was very impressive when drawn.

 

[Hemlock]

I dry my brass after wet tumbling in my food dehydrator. Takes about 45 minutes at the most.

The problem with nickel plated brass, is it doesn't let the case expand to seal in the chamber properly. Nickel doesn't expand when fired. It also hides cracks in the brass. I have 200 rounds of nickel 38 special I've been shooting very light target loads in and after about the forth reloading cracked mouths started to show up. At the sixth reload it was cracked sides. At the tenth reload I had 9 out of the remainder that were cracked. That's the last go around for them.