This Is Coming To State Near You.

[Alexx1401]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but IPs are not like bills for a law that go through various iterations in a committee before they make it to the floor for a vote (assuming they do). There is no compromise. The IP text is set in stone, and once it makes it to the ballot and the voters pass it, that's it, it's law. No 10/22 for you! Only recourse at this point (assuming the legislature doesn't overturn it, which obviously here in OR isn't going to happen) is to fight the law in the courts (a long, expensive battle).

What I mean is this may well go down in flames as this may be a bridge too far for even the gun owners who pay no attention. If it goes down in flames two things will happen. The vast majority of gun owners will puff up their chest and say "we showed them", and the people who tried this will try again, just a smaller bite. The losers, if they lose, will not slink off and say well that was a big fail. They will just let the gun owners go back to sleep, thinking they showed them, and they will come back with another shot at it. Maybe not quite as bad next time. They never stop, they only fear one thing. Losing power. Unless the voters start to kick law makers to the curb who are behind this back door way of getting what they want they will not stop trying. Believe me, if there was a massive wave of kooks getting voted out? The ones who are left will start to pass laws to protect the gun owners to keep their job. They may not believe what they are doing but, they will do anything it takes to not lose the job.
Now if it does pass? It will take YEARS before many gun owners even find out it passed. Most of them when they find out will only be because it finally hurt them. Then they will blame everyone else and never look in the mirror for why this happened to them.

 

[arakboss]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but IPs are not like bills for a law that go through various iterations in a committee before they make it to the floor for a vote (assuming they do). There is no compromise. The IP text is set in stone, and once it makes it to the ballot and the voters pass it, that's it, it's law. No 10/22 for you! Only recourse at this point (assuming the legislature doesn't overturn it, which obviously here in OR isn't going to happen) is to fight the law in the courts (a long, expensive battle).

Agreed but I wanted to add that IP 17 and IP 18 are both Statutory Initiatives. Once approved by voters these IPs can be amended by the State Legislature as they see fit.

 

[arakboss]

What I mean is this may well go down in flames as this may be a bridge too far for even the gun owners who pay no attention. If it goes down in flames two things will happen. The vast majority of gun owners will puff up their chest and say "we showed them", and the people who tried this will try again, just a smaller bite. The losers, if they lose, will not slink off and say well that was a big fail. They will just let the gun owners go back to sleep, thinking they showed them, and they will come back with another shot at it. Maybe not quite as bad next time. They never stop, they only fear one thing. Losing power. Unless the voters start to kick law makers to the curb who are behind this back door way of getting what they want they will not stop trying. Believe me, if there was a massive wave of kooks getting voted out? The ones who are left will start to pass laws to protect the gun owners to keep their job. They may not believe what they are doing but, they will do anything it takes to not lose the job.
Now if it does pass? It will take YEARS before many gun owners even find out it passed. Most of them when they find out will only be because it finally hurt them. Then they will blame everyone else and never look in the mirror for why this happened to them.

The fact that LEVO is on their third attempt is evidence that you are spot on. They won't give up.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

What I mean is this may well go down in flames as this may be a bridge too far for even the gun owners who pay no attention.

Therein lies one of the biggest challenges (as you mentioned): those gun owners who aren't paying attention and for whom this is a bridge too far are probably not small in number.

 

[Jay Walk]

It happens slowly over time.

Remember two weeks to stop the spread?

 

[Mono1]

View attachment 1091145

Correct. See here: V

 

[BrentN]

Reading this thread, I can't help but be reminded of the official dumbing down of the population. Speaking for Oregon, the education bar had been lowered to ground level for race reasons, and this past summer, eliminated completely. Because it is easier to milk a herd of cows that are dumb and compliant. Truly unbelievable to witness.

 

[GWS]

Well, It could be worse
Look at this from New Jersey

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/nj...n-forced-labor-anti-gun-groups/#axzz7EOTcdbqN

 

[WWShooter]

Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse Roe, 2A rights are dead eventually.

 

[Alexx1401]

Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse Roe, 2A rights are dead eventually.

If they treated Roe the way they treat 2A I guess I could go for that. Mirror ALL the restrictions and hoops each state puts on 2A on Roe. Of course that would NEVER be allowed so I would say Roe is more than safe. 2A on the other hand is long past slipping away.

 

[WWShooter]

If they treated Roe the way they treat 2A I guess I could go for that. Mirror ALL the restrictions and hoops each state puts on 2A on Roe. Of course that would NEVER be allowed so I would say Roe is more than safe. 2A on the other hand is long past slipping away.

I guess we'll see. But my expectation is that Roe is dead, and when we have a liberal court, so is the 2A - and the SCOTUS will be no more than another political body.

 

[Soli]

Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse Roe, 2A rights are dead eventually.

You'll have to walk me through your reasoning, because I don't see it.

Seriously, if I change it to "Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse ________, 2A rights are dead eventually." with the blank filled in with a non-2A ruling then... I just don't get it.

SCOTUS has not followed stare decisis before. Doing so hasn't meant anything for cases that have nothing to do with the facts/issues/principle of the reversed decision afaik.

 

[Alexx1401]

You'll have to walk me through your reasoning, because I don't see it.

Seriously, if I change it to "Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse ________, 2A rights are dead eventually." with the blank filled in with a non-2A ruling then... I just don't get it.

SCOTUS has not followed stare decisis before. Doing so hasn't meant anything for cases that have nothing to do with the facts/issues/principle of the reversed decision afaik.

Roe is a "religion" to a LOT of people. I have never quite been able to wrap my head around why but, it's been like this for decades. I have known MANY gun owners who seemed to care little or nothing about 2A but they go to full code red if told Roe is going to be toyed with. Just the way it is. Guess it is great for keeping people divided so they can choose to not see their rights being stripped away so it works. Look how many still with strait face tell anyone who will listen that we have not lost any 2A and it's tin foil hat stuff that we will. You can not reach people like that.

 

[308]

Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse Roe, 2A rights are dead eventually.

The mindset being dot gov and/or the Supreme Court grant us our inalienable rights rather than our Creator.

It is astonishing the me how we have intentionally removed our Creator from our public discourse, schools and our own minds (unless convenient for the moment) and then get to squawking like a bunch of barnyard hens when some silver tongued human comes along with its own agenda and assumes a higher moral authority over our rights and property….then we cry like babies…it's taking away my 10/22…oh the humanity…someone else's husband or wife is telling me what I can and cannot do with THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS GRANTED TO ALL OF US AS INDIVIDUALS BY OUR CREATOR.

How about just putting them on the ignore list?

 

[Howard1955]

You fellas do realize what "Roe" is in this context, don't you?

Are you really okay with the murder of unborn babies?

It's absolute insanity to declare "It's my right!" when the "right" being discussed is the murder of children.

Absolutely insane.

 

[monkeybutler]

And here comes the pitchfork mob.

 

[gunrnr]

I am resisting. I have started by refusing to wear a mask while shopping, in all of the grocery stores, and hardware stores.
I have not been challenged in any of these stores, I think they do not want to be the covid police for Kate Brownshirt.
It is a small step but I will ask all of you to join me in my " mostly peaceful protest"

 

[308]

And here comes the pitchfork mob.

Worn out comment.

 

[monkeybutler]

Worn out comment.

Worn out dogma. Everyone is a broken record now.

 

[WWShooter]

You'll have to walk me through your reasoning, because I don't see it.

Seriously, if I change it to "Humbly, if the 2A community doesn't rise up as one to protest against the SCOTUS if they reverse ________, 2A rights are dead eventually." with the blank filled in with a non-2A ruling then... I just don't get it.

SCOTUS has not followed stare decisis before. Doing so hasn't meant anything for cases that have nothing to do with the facts/issues/principle of the reversed decision afaik.

Sure. Abortion is a highly political issue. A woman's right to choose has been under attack since the day Roe was decided. Each of the last three justices to be seated on the SCOTUS was asked about Roe and whether it was settled precedent. Each responded "yes." None of the legal reasoning underpinning Roe has changed, what's changed is the political leanings of a majority of the members of the Court - the legal reasoning underpinning Roe hasn't changed, the Justices have.

Gun rights are also a highly political issue. If the law of the land concerning abortion can change based on the political leanings of the justices on the SCOTUS, what's to prevent some future liberal SCOTUS from deciding that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" actually does limit the balance of the second amendment, conclude that the militias that the 2A referred to have been replaced by the National Guard, and read the balance of the 2A out of the Constitution?

So yes, a decision overturning Roe, means that no decision of the SCOTUS concerning a highly politicized issue is safe, including Heller; and the basis for overturning Heller based on the plain language of the 2A is a lot better than the case for overturning Roe. Finally, as has been pointed out, Roe is as important to the left as Heller is to the right. Kill Roe? When the SCOTUS shifts to the left again, you won't have to wait too long for an angry left to bring cases challenging Heller.