Thinking of returning my Byrna Pepper Ball pistol

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I thought it would be a good less than lethal tool, and it is effective from the videos I've seen. Only thing they say is not to keep a punctured cartridge in the gun as it will leak. The gun will fire and puncture the cartridge when the trigger is pulled so it seems like that's not a big deal, you're unlikely to use it. [REVIEW] The Byrna HD - Non-Lethal Self-Defense – Concealed Nation

What do you think, should I return it? It was $359 plus tax, about $400 total. Or is it a keeper in today's BS environment where sneezing in someone's direction is a felony?

Here is the gun....

 
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Probably more of the thing I'd use on the neighbor's dog than a home invader.

Nobody mentioned it being used on a home invader....that's a straw man example. Might as well say I wouldn't take it to war....

It was originally bought as an option to deal with situations that are grey areas lethal force wise but you don't want to get close enough to pepper spray, etc. These things have serious range.

Originally when I posted this I thought the Co2 cartridges can't be stored in there. I read the site's description again and it's only PUNCTURED tanks they say that about, fresh ones are not an issue, and the tank is punctured and fires when trigger is pulled, so I edited my post. This makes it not so urgent to return. It is still a viable weapon. Only thing is....I don't carry it because I have too much other stuff to carry. So I wonder if my existing pepper spray is not sufficient since I have it on me, whereas due to the other stuff I have, including extra food, I don't have room to haul this around. It's definitely good for states where you can't CCW though...But maybe I should be carrying this instead in general...
 
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Speaking as a man that was trained to use my thumbs to gouge out an opponents eyes, I would encourage you to return it. Less than lethal all sounds good, but if they get that close to you, then lethality may be your only recourse. I hate to say that.but it's my opinion.
Can you do that from 60 feet and blind them as well as mess up their ability to breathe from 60 feet by just gouging NEAR them?
 
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Alright, dude's set in his ways and doesn't like our opinions, guys. Carry on.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm happy to entertain valid points, not straw man arguments like you made that you can't seem to counter. And eye gouging is pretty non-squator too. Might as well say you prefer biting their ear off over a pepper ball gun, pepper spray or other standoff tools that buy you 20 yards distance.

I wouldn't use it on a home invader is a pretty comical case for returning it....Might as well say I wouldn't carry it in Afghanistan, I wouldn't use it on a bear, or other straw man arguments, then say alright guys, he doesn't like poor logic, don't reply when I point out the fact that you immediately jumped to something nobody mentioned using it for: home defense:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I made a valid case for it being useful for grey area lethal force situations. Home defense is not one of them if you can think logically for a moment. I did make a case against keeping it, because I have no room to carry it. THAT is called a logical argument for not carrying it, unless someone can come up with an idea for carrying it on top of everything else (I did see a guy who carried two guns the other day, with one spare mag). The home invader thing?:rolleyes:
 
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MechaNik

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I'm happy to entertain valid points, not straw man arguments like you made that you can't seem to counter. And eye gouging is pretty non-squator too. Might as well say you prefer biting their ear off over a pepper ball gun, pepper spray or other standoff tools.

I wouldn't use it on a home invader is a pretty comical case for returning it....Might as well say I wouldn't carry it in Afghanistan.:rolleyes: then say alright guys, he doesn't like poor logic, don't reply.:rolleyes:
I didn't say return it. I didn't say don't use it. I said "I" as in "myself" wouldn't use it in a specific scenario. Oldcorpgunny suggested it might not be as effective as he'd like given other options he's trained to use. "You", however, seem to want to hear your own opinion in a deeper voice which is not something you're getting. I don't care what you carry or if you carry. I don't care if you like what I have to say. Blow chili pepper out of a straw if it makes you happy.
 
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I didn't say return it. I didn't say don't use it. I said "I" as in "myself" wouldn't use it in a specific scenario. Oldcorpgunny suggested it might not be as effective as he'd like given other options he's trained to use. "You", however, seem to want to hear your own opinion in a deeper voice which is not something you're getting. I don't care what you carry or if you carry. I don't care if you like what I have to say. Blow chili pepper out of a straw if it makes you happy.

And the scenario you noted it for is not the point of the thread. Neither is the other guys....:rolleyes:

Again, you might as well say I wouldn't carry it in Afghanistan then pound your chest about how you didn't say return it. That's not the point of the post but you seem to struggle with basics.
Welcome to the ignore list so I don't waste time with your WELL thought out "posts".
 
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It looks too much like a real pistol and my get you shot by a bad guy or a cop. Get a paint ball gun and pepper balls if that is the way you want to go.

They make it in multiple colors, though I bought a normal colored one. Maybe I should have bought something more fruity colored instead. I can exchange it. Yeah, a colored one would be better, the cops carry yellow tasers for a reason. Easy to distinguish.

If a bad guy has a gun, this isn't what get's pulled and from the tests I've seen, people can't function worth crap after the cloud of this stuff hits. SO even if he starts to draw upon seeing this it will be too late for him to function. I can drop it after and transition to my rape whistle.

If I can't carry this, I'm not going to be a paintball gun, they are usually much bigger (I have a couple for paintballing).


My big issue right now (after figuring out the C02 does not leak with a fresh cartridge in there and it punctures when fired) is that I have no room to carry it unless in a bag or in the car. Maybe that's enough? Or carry less reloads than I do now maybe to make room...but boy this is going to get uncomfortable fast. This is good when that's all you have to carry or if you're a cop and wear a vest like they do now with their taser on it, or if you can't ccw like in California or Canada.

In today's environment, I'd actually feel more comfortable relying on this than a gun. If you think winning the gun fight is the only fight, pay close attention to the news, people are charged with murder for clear cut video taped self defense cases. Life in prison isn't winning....neither is being bankrupted by criminal trials and civil litigation.
 
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Oh and on a somewhat related note, I used to be into hot sauce. I mean REALLY HOT SAUCE. North of 350,000 Scoville. I got some on my hand one time and then used the bathroom. The TINY bit of sauce on my hand burned my junk like fire for about 20 minutes. Ouch. I imagine a well placed pepper ball would stop most grown arse men. :D
 

oldcorpgunny

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Can you do that from 60 feet and blind them as well as mess up their ability to breathe from 60 feet by just gouging NEAR them?
Obviously not. But all I was doing was stating an opinion. It's up to you how you handle any particular situation. Having spent a few years as a deputy, I can say with some authority that less than lethal doesn't always do as advertised. If you or yours is harmed by your failure to respond properly to a threat, then that's on you. It's clear to me that you are defending your decision to purchase this device, so my question would be why bring it up if you don't want to know what others think? It is a thread in an interactive forum after all.
 

oldcorpgunny

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Oh and on a somewhat related note, I used to be into hot sauce. I mean REALLY HOT SAUCE. North of 350,000 Scoville. I got some on my hand one time and then used the bathroom. The TINY bit of sauce on my hand burned my junk like fire for about 20 minutes. Ouch. I imagine a well placed pepper ball would stop most grown arse men. :D
Many years ago a friend and I were having Chinese food at a local restaurant (we were in high school) when he took a finger full of that hot Chinese mustard and shoved it up my nose! I've never felt anything like that!
 
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These guys were not impressed...

Interesting find. Like the other owners of these, I have not found them to be ineffective like these guys. Reading the comments many who actually own these called BS, but definitely interesting. I wonder what the deal is with the dozen or so videos of these working fine. Thanks for this though! I just can't figure out how to carry this realistically. I have too much stuff on my belt as is, pepper spray included (Fox 5.3)
 
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Obviously not. But all I was doing was stating an opinion. It's up to you how you handle any particular situation. Having spent a few years as a deputy, I can say with some authority that less than lethal doesn't always do as advertised. If you or yours is harmed by your failure to respond properly to a threat, then that's on you. It's clear to me that you are defending your decision to purchase this device, so my question would be why bring it up if you don't want to know what others think? It is a thread in an interactive forum after all.

Obviously not you say, but yet you claim I'm set on keeping it and defending my position when I point out gouging someones eyes out over a relatively harmless standoff weapon of 20 yards is not a real answer...and you admit that it's obviously not yet claim I'm defending my position....ummm ok. Dispelling poor comparisons isn't defending a position, it's rejecting a poor comparison. Might as well say you'd rather stab them in the eye with a pen. Gouging their eyes out is aggravated assault, gun or not, and it requires you to get closer than just a can of pepper spray would. You seem to not get just how poorly thought out that comparison is. It is still a serious crime, harms the crap out of the person irreparably (lawsuit and prison) and you have to get close. But let's keep clinging to that poorly thought out comment and claiming I'm clinging to defending my position by pointing out your poorly thought out one.:rolleyes:

The point of the pepper ball gun is to stop someone without jail or civil litigation when lethal force is not called for and buy you distance. You jump to rather gouging their eyes out which does more damage than a can of pepper spray would and requires you to get closer than a can of pepper spray and will likely result in prison time and lawsuits...but I'm wrong for pointing that out and must be clinging to my position....:rolleyes:


It's like me suggesting a can of bear spray to scare away a bear, but you prefer to get close and gouge it's eyes out. Except in this case the bear can also sue you and the cops can take you to prison so it's even worse and when I point all this out, I'm just defending my position on the bear spray...it's not pointing out a flawed plan given the context of the intent of pepper ball guns (distance, avoiding jail and avoiding lawsuits). But you're right, go gouge eyes out. Having distance, avoiding jail and lawsuits is wrong. Keep on gouging eyes out.


Also, as I noted, I am the only one that gave a solid reason against the gun. I don't have room to carry it. I like it, but I don't have room to carry it unless in a bag (slow to get to) or in a car (easy to get to if in the car). Again, I'm happy to entertain valid reasons, but let's not expect me to blindly swallow a comparison that makes ZERO sense whatsoever. I want opinions, but legitimate ones with thought, not ones that I get attacked for after pointing out how poorly thought out they are.
 
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Oh and on a somewhat related note, I used to be into hot sauce. I mean REALLY HOT SAUCE. North of 350,000 Scoville. I got some on my hand one time and then used the bathroom. The TINY bit of sauce on my hand burned my junk like fire for about 20 minutes. Ouch. I imagine a well placed pepper ball would stop most grown arse men. :D

I struggle with jalapenos on the exit lol. No problem eating them, grow and eat them RAW or cooked. But the exit, oh boy.

I got pepper sprayed once, that stuff is EFFECTIVE. CS tear gas was even better. Dropped me to my knees, albeit temporarily. The Pepper spray took me out for 45 minutes or so. I could not open my eyes without my hands, and even then just for a split second. I could steel feel it on my face the next day after multiple showers. But the face pain is nothing. My eyes were ON FIRE.
 
Quite frankly I would return it if it were me, and hear me out in the why.

I personally have no training on less than lethal projectile devices (small amount with batons but that’s separate) if I found myself in a situation that might warrant its use, it’s not beyond the possibility that I do myself an injury/incapacitation.

say the wind isn’t favorable? What’s the vapor clouds area of effect? Transferable between BG and yourself if it gets to grappling? Shot goes errant, follow up shot time? Cartridge doesn’t puncture? What’s the holster situation like(Availability and draw types)? Has it been tested on drudged or extremely determined attacker?

certainly these things can all be trained for. Or at least answered. However the question in my mind is are you willing to use it in this manner (live fire/training) to be proficient in its use in as many conceivable situations as may be needed? That’s a whole lot of consumables, not to mention gassing yourself fairly regularly.

By the time you find a flaw you would no longer be able to return it and now have something that didn’t deliver.

I personally believe I would be much better prepared to defend myself with the things I am trained for and would pass. I would probably use the money for something else, more training. Potentially hand to hand, or even some situational awareness training?

this is of course all JMO and YMMV.
 

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