Thinking of returning my Byrna Pepper Ball pistol

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Quite frankly I would return it if it were me, and hear me out in the why.

I personally have no training on less than lethal projectile devices (small amount with batons but that’s separate) if I found myself in a situation that might warrant its use, it’s not beyond the possibility that I do myself an injury/incapacitation.

say the wind isn’t favorable? What’s the vapor clouds area of effect? Transferable between BG and yourself if it gets to grappling? Shot goes errant, follow up shot time? Cartridge doesn’t puncture? What’s the holster situation like(Availability and draw types)? Has it been tested on drudged or extremely determined attacker?

certainly these things can all be trained for. Or at least answered. However the question in my mind is are you willing to use it in this manner (live fire/training) to be proficient in its use in as many conceivable situations as may be needed? That’s a whole lot of consumables, not to mention gassing yourself fairly regularly.

By the time you find a flaw you would no longer be able to return it and now have something that didn’t deliver.

I personally believe I would be much better prepared to defend myself with the things I am trained for and would pass. I would probably use the money for something else, more training. Potentially hand to hand, or even some situational awareness training?

this is of course all JMO and YMMV.

The wind is an issue with pepper spray too, though with pepper spray I carry off side so that I have my strong hand available to draw or hold both at the same time.

My biggest issue is that it doesn't do me any good sitting at home, in a bag or wherever. I have no room on my belt to carry it. I think with what's going on, or as a primary weapon it would be good. But I don't want to give up my EDC either. I can't carry the EDC as a secondary and this as a primary and I'm not ready to give up the EDC as there may be situations where that IS warranted and the Byrna doesn't cut the mustard.

I do carry pepper spray which has great distance and is effective and probably more reliable than a Co2 gun. I think I will return it on the count of not being able to carry it and it probably not being AS reliable as good ole pepper spray.

Not because I think eye gouging is better or the home invader scenario (roll eyes).
 
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excellent posts above- However you might picture yourself using it, it's is not likely to happen that way-
I'm trying to think of any realistic scenario that that would make more sense than simply leaving, especially if someone is 60ft away, I
f they are 60ft away and despite that distance you've somehow managed to become cornered, then, well, yeah.

problems- as above, wind direction , ball not splatting, ball beaking as it loads, missing your target completely as he/she rushes you, having it mistaken for a gun then realizing that the attacker has a real gun, more than one attacker etc.

If you bought it to get jollies shooting from the back of a crowd at Antifa supporters, that's one thing, but as a serious defense tool ? Have a gun, have a pocket knife, stay out of sketchy areas, don't get baited into fighting and enjoy your life. You'll be fine.
If, one in a million chance you absolutely need to defend yourself, that's why you have feet, knees, elbows and hands- the gun and knife after that.

Home invader gets shot at. With bullets. It's as straightforward as that.
 
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60ft away unless they have a firearm your the aggressor if you use that thing at that distance.

Hmmmmm....valid point. Exept maybe riots. Though not every scenario is going to be that far away. Again, that's just the max distance. We keep jumping to the edge of scenarios to dispel the tool. A gun is capable of firing hundreds of yards. You would be the aggressor. But just because it has that capability doesn't mean that's how it will go down or be used. Same thing here. It's not "defending" my position. It's just pointing out factual comparisons.
 
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excellent posts above- However you might picture yourself using it, it's is not likely to happen that way-
I'm trying to think of any realistic scenario that that would make more sense than simply leaving, especially if someone is 60ft away, I
f they are 60ft away and despite that distance you've somehow managed to become cornered, then, well, yeah.

problems- as above, wind direction , ball not splatting, ball beaking as it loads, missing your target completely as he/she rushes you, having it mistaken for a gun then realizing that the attacker has a real gun, more than one attacker etc.

If you bought it to get jollies shooting from the back of a crowd at Antifa supporters, that's one thing, but as a serious defense tool ? Have a gun, have a pocket knife, stay out of sketchy areas, don't get baited into fighting and enjoy your life. You'll be fine.
If, one in a million chance you absolutely need to defend yourself, that's why you have feet, knees, elbows and hand- the gun and knife after that.

Home invader gets shot at. With bullets. It's as straightforward as that.

I did recently buy it due to the current events and the increasing likely hood of being charged for self defense. The ball could indeed break as it loads though, that's a valid point, I've had that happen in paintball upon firing.

Though keep in mind, the 60 feet is the max distance. The max distance of a gun is far more than that, yet you still carry one. It's like saying because a gun has a range of 500 yards that's the distance you must use it at or something. Realistically it will be 3 feet. But at that distance pepper spray will do too and you could have it in your hand without it looking like a gun.

You could and statistically also will miss 80% of your shots according to Police shootouts also. But then again a gun with 20 rounds vs a gun with 5 rounds and only enough Co2 for one more 5 round magazine before having to change Co2....Hmmmm...Or a 4 oz can of pepper spray for that matter with 15-20 shots.

Yeah, I think I'll return it and get a can of bear spray. Seriously lol. I saw that being used on protesters and it's a wide cone, amazing stuff. Bear spray it is!!
 
I did recently buy it due to the current events and the increasing likely hood of being charged for self defense. The ball could indeed break as it loads though, that's a valid point, I've had that happen in paintball upon firing.

Though keep in mind, the 60 feet is the max distance. The max distance of a gun is far more than that, yet you still carry one. You could and statistically also will miss 80% of your shots according to Police shootouts also. But then again a gun with 20 rounds vs a gun with 5 rounds and only enough Co2 for one more 5 round magazine before having to change Co2....Hmmmm...

Yeah, I think I'll return it and get a can of bear spray. Seriously lol. I saw that being used on protesters and it's a wide cone, amazing stuff.
if you buy bear spray I would at the least have the suggestion that you do a trail fire at different headings with the wind. It will 100% suck, and you will eat gas at some point. however you have to know its limitations In relation to wind direction. As a situation develops you may not have time to check wind heading before you spray....and overspray sucks :(

I have personally been sprayed (OC, and CS) and chemical deterrents have a lot of drawbacks, especially as something for suppressing a group of attackers. The only way militaries and LE are able to use it effectively is with preparation, training and PPE.
 
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The only way militaries and LE are able to use it effectively is with preparation, training and PPE.
And lethal backup, i.e. another officer with a firearm trained on the bad guy. Less lethal is great in concept but all of them fail often. I just don't see a lot of real world scenarios where this would be a lot better than pepper spray. Maybe throw in the the trunk of your car if you don't want to part with it.
 

awshoot

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Can you do that from 60 feet and blind them as well as mess up their ability to breathe from 60 feet by just gouging NEAR them?
If you are shooting someone at 60' with a pepperball, you're probably in a legal minefield.

This is basically a BB gun -- I don't mean that disparagingly, I mean check the ordinances of any city you intend to shoot it in -- if they decide you weren't entitled to pepperball someone, they'll probably tack something else on in addition to assault.

Anyway, I'd be cautious about anything that shoots projectiles as I suspect the legal ramifications and the legal use cases aren't well fleshed out. That's the long way of saying an appeals court case and from a purely financial perspective -- unless you're a Bitcoin whale or bought Tesla stock early -- that's pretty ruinous.
 
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I thought it would be a good less than lethal tool, and it is effective from the videos I've seen. Only thing they say is not to keep a punctured cartridge in the gun as it will leak. The gun will fire and puncture the cartridge when the trigger is pulled so it seems like that's not a big deal, you're unlikely to use it. [REVIEW] The Byrna HD - Non-Lethal Self-Defense – Concealed Nation

What do you think, should I return it? It was $359 plus tax, about $400 total. Or is it a keeper in today's BS environment where sneezing in someone's direction is a felony?

Here is the gun....

When I first heard of them the first thing I thought of was the CO2. Have a couple CO2 pistols that are fun for practice but they of course can't be kept charged. As soon as I looked at how they work they have taken that out. If you charge it and don't use it you toss the cartridge keep a new one in it. Pretty cool idea. This was clear when I looked so not sure how you missed this? Have to guess you bought it without reading how they work? In any case don't want it? Send it back I guess.
After I saw how they work I decided to get one for one of my kids who is rabid anti gun. When I ordered it they told my it will take so long to get here it will be a good Christmas gift for the kid. Enviable postilion for a Company to be in. Selling something they are months behind on with people lining up to buy. So what the hell send it on back.
 

Camelfilter

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I exchanged some shoes once, because they didn’t fit. Exchanged for a different size.

I don’t recall purchasing anything, and returning it, because “I didn’t like it”. EVER.

Why would I consider such as a thing?

Apparently, it is.

Who knew?
 
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I exchanged some shoes once, because they didn’t fit. Exchanged for a different size.

I don’t recall purchasing anything, and returning it, because “I didn’t like it”. EVER.

Why would I consider such as a thing?

Apparently, it is.

Who knew?
Remember the great TP shortage? Wife who still shops CostCo said they had a huge sign telling people they could NOT return the cases of TP they were walking out of there with :s0140:
Before this I had never paid much attention to them even though we have a membership. I guess they long has a policy that was so liberal people could return stuff for almost any reason. I guess this was a bridge too far for even them. People buying cases of the stuff then planing on returning it when the panic was over.
Wife also said one of the places she buys outdoor stuff from, REI I think? They were letting people return stuff because they had it wear out after years of use:confused:. That was the damnedest thing I had ever heard. I guess some places take the old the customer is always right way too damn far:cool:
 
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1. Ever shoot a CO2 gun in the winter? Puff... :s0140: Don't know what environment you would foresee using this thing in however where I live in the winter I wouldn't put a lot of faith in it outdoors.

2. Are you going to practice with it enough to be able to insure first strike incapacitation of your adversary.

3. My opinion of this device is that it looks enough like a firearm that if I had one pointed at me or mine it may very well cause me to be in fear for my life or that of a loved one. Is this a weapon that you want to "defend" endanger your life with?
 
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It's definitely good for states where you can't CCW though...But maybe I should be carrying this instead in general...
This is not LEGAL in all states, and that also includes the products it fires; they too are illegal in some states. Personally, it's a waste of money. You can buy an awful lot of pepper spray for what this cost. And the mace/pepper or pepper ammo is out of this world in price!
 

m8112

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As an owner of one, hear me out. It has a very bad trigger pull. It is not something you would use as a marksmanship weapon. I have shot it with several types of ammo. IMHO it can put an eye out/leave a mark at 60 feet or less. Depending on what or who you are using it on it. How the person is dressed. REMEMBER it is a less than lethal weapon. Not something one should carry for CCW. It has its place which is very limited just like pepper ball guns.
 
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Bushman- I appreciate that you’re a thinker. That’s probably why you spent good money on the device in the first place. I do think if finances allow, it may provide an option for your under certain circumstances. I offer a couple of points to ponder. I figure, you’re secure enough to decide for yourself, but you’re open to opinions and suggestions. Good on you for that,

I do have some experience with the original shoulder fired Pepperball launcher. In short, I think it’s pretty awesome. Awesome because it MIGHT serve a niche if deadly force isn’t warranted. The fact that a user can target body mass OR saturate an area with agent specifically to move people away with a barrage makes it very interesting.

Drawbacks to consider- Most important is that the original tool was conceived to support the “contact team” concept. Usually LE or military operating in a designated force group which has varied tools for varied levels of force. Almost always, someone else with lethal force as a primary weapon is present. Where the user Is alone, they should be able to transition to lethal ASAP, having already brought the lethal option with them.

Please consider if you’ll have someone else to fill a lethal response as needed, or if that would be you.Carrying both on your person might be a no go. Carrying off body might be a challenge, and of course you’ll want to differentiate which is which in the briefcase. I would give serious thought to The option to escape rather than stay to use less lethal. Implication is that for general defense, was flight considered? As opposed to deadly threat requiring an immediate lethal response. There might be factors such as disability that preclude running away and I get that.

The wind. I’ve been present when Pepperball have been deployed. I can tell you the impacts were VERY effective as far as compliance, but the resulting hanging cloud of OC talcum caused LOTS of coughing and distraction/ painful eyes for all involved.About ten rounds was launched at that time. I don’t know how many your pistol version carries, but with that tool- multiples is key.

I do hope this gives you points to consider. Be safe!

Rick
 

gmerkt

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After all these other posts, what I have to say won't count for much. But here goes.

If this device is your choice over a firearm, and if you get in a confrontation where you feel compelled to use it, your potential for getting into serious legal trouble is a lot less. A fear which the OP expressed more than once in this thread. In this sense, leaving the house with it instead of a gun lowers that risk from the start.

Having said this, there is the possibility of threat escalation once the device is used. That is, a firearm can decide an outcome, the pepper ball might just incite more violence without being able to resolve it.

But numbers matter. In a one-on-one, you'll probably be okay with it. Against a mob of young anarchists who feel immortal, probably this device and possibly not even a firearm will keep you safe.

If I thought I needed one of those to go someplace, I would choose not to go to there. I have the same personal ethic for carrying a firearm. There is always the unexpected anywhere. But probabilities figure into my thinking.
 

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