The Revered 357 magnum and general pistol bullet ballistics

[orygun]

The Ruger has to be dimensionally larger because it is investment casting. Not machine steel like the Smith

Incorrect. It is an investment casting, but that's not the reason for their size or shape.
But I agree that the Rugers are blockier and I don't find them as good looking as the S&W.
I pondered long and hard with a GP100 sitting right next to a 686...
I don't know why they are, the Blackhawk family is very attractive.

FYI, my EDC is a S&W 60-15 in 357. I love that little gun.

 

[RedneckRampage]

Incorrect. It is an investment casting, but that's not the reason for their size or shape.
But I agree that the Rugers are blockier and I don't find them as good looking as the S&W.
I pondered long and hard with a GP100 sitting right next to a 686...
I don't know why they are, the Blackhawk family is very attractive.

FYI, my EDC is a S&W 60-15 in 357. I love that little gun.

I love the way the Service and Speed Six's look, not so much the Security with the big sights.

 

[homeuser6]

Incorrect. It is an investment casting, but that's not the reason for their size or shape.

then what is the reason?

Casting vs Forging: Key Differences between Casting and Forging (With PDF) | What is Piping

Both Casting and Forging are part of the mechanical manufacturing process. Both Casting and forging are widely used in the metal fabrication process and produce…

whatispiping.com

Casting vs Forging: Which one is better?

The selection of the production process depends entirely on the cost involvement and end-use of the part. Where higher strength and rigidity are required, forging is the ideal choice. But for complex shapes, including spaces, Casting is the better option. Studies have found that:

• The tensile strength of cast products is around 26% lower than their forging counterparts.
• Forging products exhibit approximately 37% higher fatigue strength as compared to cast products.

( i own service six, security six, redhawk, and blackhawk revolvers and appreciate their design and engineering)

 

[User 1234]

Ruger's casting company, Pine Tree, makes some precise internal gun components using that process. If the process necessarily resulted in larger, clunky, products that could not happen. Even if it did, a cast product could be milled to shape afterwards.

 

[JDubDub]

My S&W 627 is one of the best feeling handguns in my collection, but it's been back to S&W 3 times for repairs. Shoots amazingly well with light and mid-range reloads, but constantly jumps timing with heavier recoiling round. My GP100 doesn't feel as nice in the hand, doesn't shoot quite as well, but has survived 25 years worth of all the abuse I can heap on it.

If I had to choose 1 to trust my life to, I'd stick with the Ruger. Love shooting the 627, but wouldn't trust my life to it.

 

[boattail]

The last gun I will take to the bitter end is my 1956 six inch Blackhawk 357. Hands down the best gun I own for several reasons. It is also the gun my wife chooses to shoot. Full house 158g makes her giggle like a school girl.

 

[oremike]

The last gun I will take to the bitter end is my 1956 six inch Blackhawk 357. Hands down the best gun I own for several reasons. It is also the gun my wife chooses to shoot. Full house 158g makes her giggle like a school girl.

I have the same gun but mine is a new model made in 1977. I just put some Altamont grips on it for the bling factor. It's very accurate and easy to shoot.

 

[orygun]

I love the way the Service and Speed Six's look, not so much the Security with the big sights.

View attachment 1744432 View attachment 1744433

I agree completely! If the GP100 looked more like this with a full lug, I'd be on that bandwagon.

 

[Nocaster]

Ballistics seem to take on a life of its own depending on who's pushing it.

If its the manufacturer, then the old rule of marketing usually applies...sell it to the public in such a way as to make them think they can't live without it, and go in for the monetary kill.

For the user, we tend to be testers of the fact. is that which is being pushed actually true, or are there caveats.

Some specifics that aren't written about much is the differences that can be found in the human body that can affect bullet performance. Age, physical condition, medical issues, medications and the list goes on...then there's subtle differences in not only bone density, but skin and organ elasticity that also comes into play.

Thus one can shoot 10 different people, in the same place with the same firearm, same distance, angle etc., and get slightly 10 different bullet performance results.

I'd rather have the deep penetration, than the expansion...if you get both, celebrate it!

As I mentioned on the podcast, there's a sweet spot for JHPs and each JHP is engineered for a specific velocity range to perform properly. Too fast, they open up too quick and act like a parachute and don't get the penetration. Too slow, they act more like a FMJ yet also might lack penetration because of the slower velocity.

Overall, there's way too much emphasis on JHP performance because so many people are writing about it, and manufacturers are pushing it.

If you want a great snub load for a revolver...carry 148gr wadcutters. Want a great round for the 12 gauge for home defense, get some breaching rounds...turns everything to soup.

Try not to buy into the hype being marketed. We're coming full circle on ballistics as Chuck and Caleb mentioned...and it mostly does not include JHPs.

Yes, you can get good performance out of a load without subjecting both the gun and shooter to abuse.

Jim Cirillo had some great home made examples of bullets that truly worked at a very high percentage.

View attachment 1738795

@Cerberus Group

Steve,

Which .38 wadcutter loadings do you recommend? I looked at one, I think Magtech, and it had around 700fps advertised velocity, which sounds kinda slow.

Does High Desert Cartridge Co. Have any plans on selling .38 wadcutters?

Thanks,

Alex

 

[Cerberus Group]

@Cerberus Group

Steve,

Which .38 wadcutter loadings do you recommend? I looked at one, I think Magtech, and it had around 700fps advertised velocity, which sounds kinda slow.

Does High Desert Cartridge Co. Have any plans on selling .38 wadcutters?

Thanks,

Alex

We're developing a 148gr Wadcutter for 38 snubs...should be online before I head to the Pat Rogers Revolver Round-Up at Gunsite next month.

Also, 700 isn't bad if it's chrono'd for a snub wadcutter load...they tend to get the needed penetration. If the velocity was taken out of a 4" or longer barrel, like they usually are...then there may be some problems.

 

[Defense Minister]

Interestingly, the Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr +p round reaches 125gr .357 mag velocities out of a 16" carbine barrel. Seems like a nice combo for home defense without blowing one's ear drums out with a .223 or 12ga!

 

[oremike]

I'm getting 1379fps out of a 4" barrel with a 124gr Berrrys heavy coated TC bullet out of my Sig P-229 in 357 Sig. Granted though it does have a bit of the super sonic crack going on.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Contrary to popular belief, it's possible to get around 20 inches of penetration and not have to push the bullet to Mach 18, which in turn punishes both the gun and shooter.

With running at 950fps...here's some results out of a 3 inch Python.

 

[Pete F]

I really wish Ruger did not stop production of the Security Six and Speed Six revolvers.
In any event...the .357 Magnum is an excellent and versatile cartridge.
Thanks for posting OP.
Andy

Luckily I have my Security Six 6". I love that gun and would put it up against a S&W any day of the week for accuracy and handling.

 

[orygun]

Contrary to popular belief, it's possible to get around 20 inches of penetration and not have to push the bullet to Mach 18, which in turn punishes both the gun and shooter.

With running at 950fps...here's some results out of a 3 inch Python.

View attachment 1774097

Hornady XTP?
That's my favorite Magnum pistol bullet. When shooting 41 Mag out of a 20" carbine they were traveling nearly 1900fps. Shooting into a gravel pile as a backstop, they didn't come apart. Tough bullet.

What powder are you using?

 

[ron]

Love the 357/38. First caliber I started reloading in 1978. Bought a Dan Wesson at Payless
686+

 

[Cerberus Group]

Hornady XTP?
That's my favorite Magnum pistol bullet. When shooting 41 Mag out of a 20" carbine they were traveling nearly 1900fps. Shooting into a gravel pile as a backstop, they didn't come apart. Tough bullet.

What powder are you using?

XTPs are late bloomers...meaning they will penetrate first and expand later, which us what we want.

When I was down at Gunsite at the Pat Rogers Memorial Revolver Roundup, I posed a question to some people who thought that if the bullet doesn't expand, it's a failure.

The question...how many threats were stopped due to bullet expansion vs penetration?

You want the penetration, not unlike big game hunters who want deep penetration foremost.

As for the powder, an industry OEM powder not available to the public...but the burn rate is close to Titegroup.

 

[Legs]

I have a choice of three handguns to carry when possibility of bear encounter is present, which is often around my Idaho home.357, 45 colt and 10mm are my calibers and Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman line of hardcast bullets are the carry... Good info on Buffalo Bore website, including this article on bears...

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

www.buffalobore.com

 

[orygun]

I've seen two black bears in the "wild". The one that saw me bolted as soon as possible. The other had no idea I was around and just kept meandering along.
Me? I'm more concerned with big cats. I have no doubt the 357 would anchor one quickly.

 

[dangerranger60]

My personal belief is that there are no magic bullets. spend the bulk of your time working on accuracy.
I'm one that carries WC bullets in my snub's. I load them near the top of standard pressure. I expect good penetration and expect them to cut a full caliber hole in whatever is hit. And I get this without the hand pain. I shoot them from an airweight 642. To get reliable expansion from a 2" barrel the ammo has to push the bullet into Plus P pressure, or use a much lighter bullet. both of those to get the velocity up into the bullets working speed.
I'm pretty happy with WC bullets at a slower 750 to 800 fps. they cut deeply, and don't hurt my arthritic hands. And for those that don't load there are lots of loads out there. My personal favorite is Federal Gold Medal 148 gr. Not the fastest but they cut deep, and are easy to find. DR